Why is ante bellum racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still messing up the formatting! I give up.

Here you go PP:

Gone With the Wind depicts one female slave as childlike, hysterical, and ignorant. All 3 of the main slave characters are dependent on Scarlet to figure out what ever shall they do, how they will eat, how will they maintain Tara. Though the quintessential Southern belle, Scarlet is the only one with the ingenuity, gumption, work ethic and courage to keep everyone alive. As though Scarlet would have had any clue how to do anything and slaves would have needed her to show them the way. 🙄 She’s the white savior who cares for these slaves who couldn’t make it on their own without a master to tell them what to do. Those slaves sure were lucky to have her! 🤮

One of you pretends there was simply no other way to portray slaves and gives absurd alternatives, and the other poster loves it!

You’re terrible people.

I actually think people know this but want to pretend it’s not true. It’s like in the Matrix. There will always be a large part of the community that wants to live in ignorance because it’s more comfortable that way. Some will choose the blue pill.

As long as you believe that other people secretly know you are right, you will never have to face the discomfort of your own ignorance.

Look, the treatment of slaves was objectively bad. I think most of us acknowledge that. The portrayal of slaves as little more than dim witted children is also jarring if most people think about it. I really don’t think most Americans believe that is an appropriate way to portray adults. But some just ignore because they like something else about the movie - the period pieces, the parties, whatever. I freely admit this is nothing but conjecture on my part.

[Anonymous]

These parties are offensive for the reasons many have explained on this thread. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness in many of these responses. I think it comes down to the following:

Free speech allows people to be as offensive as they want to be.

Free speech does not mean that there are no consequences for a person's speech.

What is widely considered morally reprehensible has been expanded with greater education of the pubic at large and particularly young people.

Communication technologies facilitate the sharing of abhorrent behavior.

It is now hard to hide morally repugnant behavior and fewer people across the community think it is funny or acceptable.

We try and teach our children logical consequences for their actions. The logical consequences of participating in a racist form of entertainment is that you may lose friends or jobs when your activity becomes publicly known. It is not against the law and you are free to do it, but the people who shun you are as entitled to their views as you are to yours.

I actually think cancel culture can go way too far. That said, anyone that chooses to dress up and attend an antebellum party today deserves whatever consequences they get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These parties are offensive for the reasons many have explained on this thread. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness in many of these responses. I think it comes down to the following:

Free speech allows people to be as offensive as they want to be.

Free speech does not mean that there are no consequences for a person's speech.

What is widely considered morally reprehensible has been expanded with greater education of the pubic at large and particularly young people.

Communication technologies facilitate the sharing of abhorrent behavior.

It is now hard to hide morally repugnant behavior and fewer people across the community think it is funny or acceptable.

We try and teach our children logical consequences for their actions. The logical consequences of participating in a racist form of entertainment is that you may lose friends or jobs when your activity becomes publicly known. It is not against the law and you are free to do it, but the people who shun you are as entitled to their views as you are to yours.

I actually think cancel culture can go way too far. That said, anyone that chooses to dress up and attend an antebellum party today deserves whatever consequences they get.

Okay, are you that incredibly sensible person over on the Kavanaugh thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An antebellum party is racist because it is a celebration/replication of the lifestyle of the uber wealthy, slave owning, white people living on plantations in the pre Civil War south. These people owned and amassed their wealth, and were afforded this opulent lifestyle and their parties because they were slaveowners and amassed ridiculous wealth by owning other human beings.

Why would anyone have a party to celebrate this dark chapter in american history? Not a great choice for a theme for a party. Do you understand?

An antebellum party is about the clothes. I've never been to one, but I can tell you that is what I see. It also includes mint juleps. Lots of them.

It is very specifically about the clothes that the richest and most elite class of southerners wore. So everyone goes to the party dressed like elite, wealthy southern plantation owners, aka people who are wealthy from human slavery.

The opulent lifestyle of the wealthy today is still based on exploiting other humans. So, I hope you enthusiastically refuse to attend corporate functions.

Yes!!! Also get off social media - you never know if something you liked today could get you cancelled in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These parties are offensive for the reasons many have explained on this thread. I really appreciate the thoughtfulness in many of these responses. I think it comes down to the following:

Free speech allows people to be as offensive as they want to be.

Free speech does not mean that there are no consequences for a person's speech.

What is widely considered morally reprehensible has been expanded with greater education of the pubic at large and particularly young people.

Communication technologies facilitate the sharing of abhorrent behavior.

It is now hard to hide morally repugnant behavior and fewer people across the community think it is funny or acceptable.

We try and teach our children logical consequences for their actions. The logical consequences of participating in a racist form of entertainment is that you may lose friends or jobs when your activity becomes publicly known. It is not against the law and you are free to do it, but the people who shun you are as entitled to their views as you are to yours.

I actually think cancel culture can go way too far. That said, anyone that chooses to dress up and attend an antebellum party today deserves whatever consequences they get.

Okay, are you that incredibly sensible person over on the Kavanaugh thread?

No, there’s more than one of us! I’m the one from the Kavanaugh thread; however, I agree with this sensible poster as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still messing up the formatting! I give up.

Here you go PP:

Gone With the Wind depicts one female slave as childlike, hysterical, and ignorant. All 3 of the main slave characters are dependent on Scarlet to figure out what ever shall they do, how they will eat, how will they maintain Tara. Though the quintessential Southern belle, Scarlet is the only one with the ingenuity, gumption, work ethic and courage to keep everyone alive. As though Scarlet would have had any clue how to do anything and slaves would have needed her to show them the way. 🙄 She’s the white savior who cares for these slaves who couldn’t make it on their own without a master to tell them what to do. Those slaves sure were lucky to have her! 🤮

One of you pretends there was simply no other way to portray slaves and gives absurd alternatives, and the other poster loves it!

You’re terrible people.

I actually think people know this but want to pretend it’s not true. It’s like in the Matrix. There will always be a large part of the community that wants to live in ignorance because it’s more comfortable that way. Some will choose the blue pill.

As long as you believe that other people secretly know you are right, you will never have to face the discomfort of your own ignorance.

Look, the treatment of slaves was objectively bad. I think most of us acknowledge that. The portrayal of slaves as little more than dim witted children is also jarring if most people think about it. I really don’t think most Americans believe that is an appropriate way to portray adults. But some just ignore because they like something else about the movie - the period pieces, the parties, whatever. I freely admit this is nothing but conjecture on my part.

Yes that's true and because of that, we wouldn't and probably even couldn't make a movie like that today. No such script could get apprpved and no actor would even try to play a slave that way. But as a movie of a certain time period that is about another period, the way they portrayed the slaves actually tells you a lot about both 1939 and the Old South. When I saw it, I realized full well how racist it was. I didn't ignore it, it's part of the experience.

I saw the movie with a friend. She loved the movie but didn't see the racism, even after I pointed it out. Just didn't see it. She wasn't ignoring it though. She just isn't that smart. I know her well enough to say she is dumb in a lot of ways that have nothing to do with racism and she probably will never improve. Does this make her a terrible person? Some would say so, but I am not so elitist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not the same thing at all. There was much in the antebellum South that was not dominated by slavery. And, FWIW, hoop skirts were also worn in the North.


Could you share more on the bolded please? Curious to know what you mean.

While 25% of Southerners owned slaves (and that is too many, of course), 75% did NOT own slaves. Of course, the large plantations depended on slavery, but many other people did not. Slavery was outrageous and troubling, but it was not the ONLY thing in the South.

I haven't read the whole thread, but some of it and keep seeing this cited. I'm not getting involved in the discussion but we are each entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.

We know that 30 percent of households (not people) owned slaves in the South in 1860 and that the overwhelming majority of those that did, owned a slave or two, maybe three. These slaveholders worked alongside their slaves in the fields on a daily basis.

The Gone with the Wind meme was essentially the "one percent" of the era. Not a value judgement, just a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the same thing at all. There was much in the antebellum South that was not dominated by slavery. And, FWIW, hoop skirts were also worn in the North.


Could you share more on the bolded please? Curious to know what you mean.

While 25% of Southerners owned slaves (and that is too many, of course), 75% did NOT own slaves. Of course, the large plantations depended on slavery, but many other people did not. Slavery was outrageous and troubling, but it was not the ONLY thing in the South.

I haven't read the whole thread, but some of it and keep seeing this cited. I'm not getting involved in the discussion but we are each entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts.

We know that 30 percent of households (not people) owned slaves in the South in 1860 and that the overwhelming majority of those that did, owned a slave or two, maybe three. These slaveholders worked alongside their slaves in the fields on a daily basis.

The Gone with the Wind meme was essentially the "one percent" of the era. Not a value judgement, just a fact.

I’m not sure if you offer this fact in order to ameliorate the pedestrian horror of slavery or not.

[Anonymous]

I will never understand you East Coast folks obsession over the stupid south. All the dumb civil war crap. I just don’t get it. I was a horrible part of our country’s history and folks want to reenact it. Such a backwards people.

[Anonymous]

The point is that it was perfectly legal to own another human being in the south. Doesn’t matter if you had zero or a hundred slaves, your state government that you put in office supported it.

How many non-slave-owners were abolitionists vs were just too poor to buy other humans? If they could have afforded it, would they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand you East Coast folks obsession over the stupid south. All the dumb civil war crap. I just don’t get it. I was a horrible part of our country’s history and folks want to reenact it. Such a backwards people.

Maybe the ongoing issues that still exist today that came from slavery/Jim crow/systemic racism?

The south’s crime is a crime for all of us.

[Anonymous]

Post Civil War, the city of Vicksburg, MS, did not celebrate Independence Day until 1945, in celebration of our victory in a different war (after Gone With the Wind had come out.) I used to work with a native North Carolinian who is probably in his mid-fifties now. He referred to the Civil War as “the War of Northern Aggression.” An acquaintance told me he had a coworker who referred to it — in the 21st century — as “the recent unpleasantness.” We’re still fighting over Confederate statues. On January 6th of this year, a man paraded a huge Confederate flag through the US Capitol. Across this country, white lawmakers continue to work to disenfranchise voters in ways that disproportionately affect Black voters.

The Civil War is not some relic of our past. Its causes and effects aren’t limited to “a horrible part of our country’s history.” We are living its legacy right now, and our great grandchildren will, as well, one day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Post Civil War, the city of Vicksburg, MS, did not celebrate Independence Day until 1945, in celebration of our victory in a different war (after Gone With the Wind had come out.) I used to work with a native North Carolinian who is probably in his mid-fifties now. He referred to the Civil War as “the War of Northern Aggression.” An acquaintance told me he had a coworker who referred to it — in the 21st century — as “the recent unpleasantness.” We’re still fighting over Confederate statues. On January 6th of this year, a man paraded a huge Confederate flag through the US Capitol. Across this country, white lawmakers continue to work to disenfranchise voters in ways that disproportionately affect Black voters.

The Civil War is not some relic of our past. Its causes and effects aren’t limited to “a horrible part of our country’s history.” We are living its legacy right now, and our great grandchildren will, as well, one day.

Traitor trash still living in our country today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Post Civil War, the city of Vicksburg, MS, did not celebrate Independence Day until 1945, in celebration of our victory in a different war (after Gone With the Wind had come out.) I used to work with a native North Carolinian who is probably in his mid-fifties now. He referred to the Civil War as “the War of Northern Aggression.” An acquaintance told me he had a coworker who referred to it — in the 21st century — as “the recent unpleasantness.” We’re still fighting over Confederate statues. On January 6th of this year, a man paraded a huge Confederate flag through the US Capitol. Across this country, white lawmakers continue to work to disenfranchise voters in ways that disproportionately affect Black voters.

The Civil War is not some relic of our past. Its causes and effects aren’t limited to “a horrible part of our country’s history.” We are living its legacy right now, and our great grandchildren will, as well, one day.

Well said. While the North won, the “compromise” resulting from the contested election (sound familiar?) of 1876 basically allowed the South to do whatever it wanted despite losing. Ever since then we have still been fighting. Sometimes with bloodshed. Also worth mentioning that the last surviving widow of a Civil War veteran died THREE MONTHS AGO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Antebellum is about celebrating the slave era. It's not about hoop skirts.

It probably is about the hoop skirts for most. But it displays an appalling cluelessness about how those hoop skirts were paid for and how some are still affected by all the racism that went with the hoop skirts. Americans are often clueless, willfully or not.