Why is ante bellum racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

I do not believe that merely attending a fancy dress ball is racist. I don't believe that dressing in certain clothes "celebrates exploitation," or necessarily has any bad intent. Nor is it furthering any exploitation because it's just a party. Certain clothes may be offensive to others, but that is not racism, that is simply bad manners. PP believes that anyone who holds my beliefs is racist because she takes an essential view of white people who dress up in those clothes. That is, they are inherently bad because they are white and wear clothes that remind black people of slavery. That's racist by my definition because it is based on race and the performance of harmless (albeit possibly offensive) actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

Because white privileged people think that promoting the rights and issues for minorities means that you are being degrading to whites and believe that anti-white racism is really a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

Because white privileged people think that promoting the rights and issues for minorities means that you are being degrading to whites and believe that anti-white racism is really a problem.

So it's white privilege whenever a white person holds an opinion that differs from yours?

[Anonymous]

That poster has been spamming they same thing on every thread. Their argument is pretty simple. They desperately want you to empathize with them while at the same time they refuse to empathize with you.

I'm sure they think it's perfectly ok for TN to have a state holiday celebrating a slaver, war criminal, and KKK grand dragon because he was also a confederate general and um heritage or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That poster has been spamming they same thing on every thread. Their argument is pretty simple. They desperately want you to empathize with them while at the same time they refuse to empathize with you.

I'm sure they think it's perfectly ok for TN to have a state holiday celebrating a slaver, war criminal, and KKK grand dragon because he was also a confederate general and um heritage or something like that.

I never said anything like this. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

Because white privileged people think that promoting the rights and issues for minorities means that you are being degrading to whites and believe that anti-white racism is really a problem.

Anti-white racism is really a problem. There’s tons of it right here on this forum.

[Anonymous]

If you want to be Scarlet O’Hara you are racist. GWTW was not a dress-up book & movie. It was nostalgia and apologia for the lost causes of plantation culture and slavery and the Civil War.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

I do not believe that merely attending a fancy dress ball is racist. I don't believe that dressing in certain clothes "celebrates exploitation," or necessarily has any bad intent. Nor is it furthering any exploitation because it's just a party. Certain clothes may be offensive to others, but that is not racism, that is simply bad manners. PP believes that anyone who holds my beliefs is racist because she takes an essential view of white people who dress up in those clothes. That is, they are inherently bad because they are white and wear clothes that remind black people of slavery. That's racist by my definition because it is based on race and the performance of harmless (albeit possibly offensive) actions.

Hey, humorless pp. That’s me you’re talking about, and I’m White.

Since being proved wrong is something you enjoy: “ prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.” (From Oxford Languages) Your “bad manners” is, in fact, racism. Again, people have told you this hurts and you’re like, “I wanna go to my fancy dress Confederacy ball and nothing, nothing, NOTHING else will do!” Do you even actively go to these, right now, presumably as an adult and probably a parent in our year 2021? Is there some sort of white hood cotillion that is the highlight of your social season?

The balls purposely antagonize Black people! That’s why people idiotic White people keep having them, to rub Black people’s noses in the fact that their ancestors raped, tortured and stole the liberty of their ancestors!! And you’re here caping for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

I do not believe that merely attending a fancy dress ball is racist. I don't believe that dressing in certain clothes "celebrates exploitation," or necessarily has any bad intent. Nor is it furthering any exploitation because it's just a party. Certain clothes may be offensive to others, but that is not racism, that is simply bad manners. PP believes that anyone who holds my beliefs is racist because she takes an essential view of white people who dress up in those clothes. That is, they are inherently bad because they are white and wear clothes that remind black people of slavery. That's racist by my definition because it is based on race and the performance of harmless (albeit possibly offensive) actions.

Hey, humorless pp. That’s me you’re talking about, and I’m White.

Since being proved wrong is something you enjoy: “ prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.” (From Oxford Languages) Your “bad manners” is, in fact, racism. Again, people have told you this hurts and you’re like, “I wanna go to my fancy dress Confederacy ball and nothing, nothing, NOTHING else will do!” Do you even actively go to these, right now, presumably as an adult and probably a parent in our year 2021? Is there some sort of white hood cotillion that is the highlight of your social season?

The balls purposely antagonize Black people! That’s why people idiotic White people keep having them, to rub Black people’s noses in the fact that their ancestors raped, tortured and stole the liberty of their ancestors!! And you’re here caping for it.

Again, stuff I never said. Going to a ball in clothes that other people don't like is not antagonism directed against a person or people. If I am not thinking of you, just thinking of the ball, how could I have any purposeful antagonism? I get that it may be emotionally painful for you, but is this an actual harm? You keep assuming that white people are doing this for the purpose of rubbing black people's noses in slavery, and for no other reason. I doubt anyone who goes to one of those would say that. More likely they would say, "don't look at it and don't be so sensitive." Not a "nice" response , but rubbing your nose it? Purposely antagonizing? I wouldn't take it that way, and I don't think you should. And yes, people have said such things to me for stuff I found deeply offensive.


To be clear here, I am not saying you shouldn't be offended or shouldn't complain. I'm just saying, you should call it what it is, offensiveness, not racism. And if you don't agree, and you still think it's racism. That's okay with me too. Different people have different opinions. Simple disagreement isn't racism either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

I do not believe that merely attending a fancy dress ball is racist. I don't believe that dressing in certain clothes "celebrates exploitation," or necessarily has any bad intent. Nor is it furthering any exploitation because it's just a party. Certain clothes may be offensive to others, but that is not racism, that is simply bad manners. PP believes that anyone who holds my beliefs is racist because she takes an essential view of white people who dress up in those clothes. That is, they are inherently bad because they are white and wear clothes that remind black people of slavery. That's racist by my definition because it is based on race and the performance of harmless (albeit possibly offensive) actions.

You can be unaware when you attend a fancy dress ball. What about when people explain to you why it is hurtful and harmful to idolize the culture behind that period. And you respond effectively with “f**k your feelings”. Does the lack of empathy and unwillingness to hear what people are saying seem problematic to you? Because it does to me. The only real answer when asked to really think about what you are celebrating is “yeah, I can see that”. Instead we get long explanations of why that period wasn’t so bad, why a dress is just a dress etc. Why do that?

[Anonymous]

To key distinction is that you know it is offensive. That knowledge transforms the act.

But these stupid balls, if they even exist outside of a Southern sorority house anymore, are not the big offenses. Normal people calling antebellum balls racist and shaming attendees isn't any where near the main complaints. It's just the ones people can actually do something about because the power dynamics are equal.

[Anonymous]

You can't just strip these things out of context either. Those balls all arose specifically as a reaction to reconstruction and then integration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to be Scarlet O’Hara you are racist. GWTW was not a dress-up book & movie. It was nostalgia and apologia for the lost causes of plantation culture and slavery and the Civil War.

That would be Scarlett. Katie Scarlett O'Hara

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no history without the history of exploitation of one group by another. None. It still happens today around the world.

So your answer is we should celebrate exploitation with fancy dress balls?

The answer is that cancelling the balls is not an answer.

I give up. But be aware that when people call you racist, it’s not without merit.

Be aware that many people think your definition of racism is itself racist.

You have no f-ing clue what "racist" even means, do you?

There is more than one definition. The definition is disputed these days. You can go out and verify that for yourself. I don't think I'm racist or ignorant. You can call me those names all you want, but don't be surprised if someone calls you those names right back.

So you call people racist because.....they called you racist? Not because you actually think they are racist? Is that the logic here?

No, I only call them racist when I think they are racist. PP should not be surprised that there may be a lot of people who think she is the racist.

OK - so then please explain WHY you think PP is a racist.

I do not believe that merely attending a fancy dress ball is racist. I don't believe that dressing in certain clothes "celebrates exploitation," or necessarily has any bad intent. Nor is it furthering any exploitation because it's just a party. Certain clothes may be offensive to others, but that is not racism, that is simply bad manners. PP believes that anyone who holds my beliefs is racist because she takes an essential view of white people who dress up in those clothes. That is, they are inherently bad because they are white and wear clothes that remind black people of slavery. That's racist by my definition because it is based on race and the performance of harmless (albeit possibly offensive) actions.

Hey, humorless pp. That’s me you’re talking about, and I’m White.

Since being proved wrong is something you enjoy: “ prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.” (From Oxford Languages) Your “bad manners” is, in fact, racism. Again, people have told you this hurts and you’re like, “I wanna go to my fancy dress Confederacy ball and nothing, nothing, NOTHING else will do!” Do you even actively go to these, right now, presumably as an adult and probably a parent in our year 2021? Is there some sort of white hood cotillion that is the highlight of your social season?

The balls purposely antagonize Black people! That’s why people idiotic White people keep having them, to rub Black people’s noses in the fact that their ancestors raped, tortured and stole the liberty of their ancestors!! And you’re here caping for it.

Again, stuff I never said. Going to a ball in clothes that other people don't like is not antagonism directed against a person or people. If I am not thinking of you, just thinking of the ball, how could I have any purposeful antagonism? I get that it may be emotionally painful for you, but is this an actual harm? You keep assuming that white people are doing this for the purpose of rubbing black people's noses in slavery, and for no other reason. I doubt anyone who goes to one of those would say that. More likely they would say, "don't look at it and don't be so sensitive." Not a "nice" response , but rubbing your nose it? Purposely antagonizing? I wouldn't take it that way, and I don't think you should. And yes, people have said such things to me for stuff I found deeply offensive.


To be clear here, I am not saying you shouldn't be offended or shouldn't complain. I'm just saying, you should call it what it is, offensiveness, not racism. And if you don't agree, and you still think it's racism. That's okay with me too. Different people have different opinions. Simple disagreement isn't racism either.

DP. Other people feel harmed regardless of your intent. Once upon a time, you could have claimed ignorance or obliviousness. Now that multiple people have explained the visceral reactions that others have to ante bellum themed plantation parties, you cannot. Not taking others’ feelings about the racial oppression that is part and parcel of the lifestyle those parties celebrate due to ignorance is one thing, but now that you know better, do better. Now, if you choose to participate unapologetically in the glorification of the slave owner’s lifestyle, you are an antagonist.