Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at SJC now. Not in the baseball program but knows one of the boys who transferred out. The story going around, apparently fueled by the coach is that the players kicked out of the program were selfish, not loyal or dedicated to the team, not willing to put in the hard work, not SJC material. If its true they were kicked out because they wouldn't pay the coach for his side business, then his comments are slanderous. These are kids and a former coach painting them like this is not just unfair but also could hurt their futures.

Sounds like the baseball coaches are reading from the Cabell Maddux lacrosse playbook (https://deadspin.com/hey-ungrateful-quitter-emails-from-an-angry-lacrosse-660703941). It does sound slanderous, but also, hopefully, all the people involved know why the kids left and will just assume it's very sour grapes from the coach and his henchmen.

That can’t be a real email. I’ve seen a lot of f’d up coaches but never anything like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at SJC now. Not in the baseball program but knows one of the boys who transferred out. The story going around, apparently fueled by the coach is that the players kicked out of the program were selfish, not loyal or dedicated to the team, not willing to put in the hard work, not SJC material. If its true they were kicked out because they wouldn't pay the coach for his side business, then his comments are slanderous. These are kids and a former coach painting them like this is not just unfair but also could hurt their futures.

Sounds like the baseball coaches are reading from the Cabell Maddux lacrosse playbook (https://deadspin.com/hey-ungrateful-quitter-emails-from-an-angry-lacrosse-660703941). It does sound slanderous, but also, hopefully, all the people involved know why the kids left and will just assume it's very sour grapes from the coach and his henchmen.

That can’t be a real email. I’ve seen a lot of f’d up coaches but never anything like this.

Totally real! We’ve been discussing that Deadspin article and the Madlax coach on the lacrosse forum for years now.

[Anonymous]

Is this going on in the SJC football program too? Just curious. Is this the result of Kevin Plank's desire to have a sports powerhouse at SJC? Wow, this school really has its priorities backwards. So so so so so glad we decided to send our child elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

And guess what??? It will still be the school with the most applications in DC. As I said before it’s on its way to IMG status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this going on in the SJC football program too? Just curious. Is this the result of Kevin Plank's desire to have a sports powerhouse at SJC? Wow, this school really has its priorities backwards. So so so so so glad we decided to send our child elsewhere.

Baseball around here is full of rich kids from McLean or Bethesda. They are prime targets for the pay-to-play gang. Same with lax, and to a lesser degree soccer. Football is a very different demographic, as is basketball. There the sleazy coaches make money being gatekeepers to scouts and schools and shoe companies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this going on in the SJC football program too? Just curious. Is this the result of Kevin Plank's desire to have a sports powerhouse at SJC? Wow, this school really has its priorities backwards. So so so so so glad we decided to send our child elsewhere.

Baseball around here is full of rich kids from McLean or Bethesda. They are prime targets for the pay-to-play gang. Same with lax, and to a lesser degree soccer. Football is a very different demographic, as is basketball. There the sleazy coaches make money being gatekeepers to scouts and schools and shoe companies.

This wouldn't work in Football or Basketball because AAU teams that are nationally ranked get sponsored. Coaches are looking for Nike, UA, Adidas, and etc. sponsorship which cover the cost of everything. How do you get ranked....by having the best players. Yes, basketball and football have a different demographic but, I think you underestimate the cost of having your child play AAU. I have friends who children play on top teams and with travel cost they came out of pocket $20k last year each. Tournaments in every part of the US over the summer including Las Vegas for almost 2 weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at SJC now. Not in the baseball program but knows one of the boys who transferred out. The story going around, apparently fueled by the coach is that the players kicked out of the program were selfish, not loyal or dedicated to the team, not willing to put in the hard work, not SJC material. If its true they were kicked out because they wouldn't pay the coach for his side business, then his comments are slanderous. These are kids and a former coach painting them like this is not just unfair but also could hurt their futures.

My daughter is good friends with one of the players mentioned in the article. He also happens to be a talented basketball player. I can only speak about him but he's a quiet, funny all around nice kid who has good friends on both the basketball team and baseball team. Any student who plays two sports at SJC is putting in the hard work and then some. He was never disloyal. From what my daughter says he just wanted flexibility to play in a few important high profile summer baseball events and that made a huge difference in his college options. It sickens me to hear that the story going around is that he's selfish or not willing to work. Even worse if the coach is fueling it. These are still children. How is that getting lost in all of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at SJC now. Not in the baseball program but knows one of the boys who transferred out. The story going around, apparently fueled by the coach is that the players kicked out of the program were selfish, not loyal or dedicated to the team, not willing to put in the hard work, not SJC material. If its true they were kicked out because they wouldn't pay the coach for his side business, then his comments are slanderous. These are kids and a former coach painting them like this is not just unfair but also could hurt their futures.

My daughter is good friends with one of the players mentioned in the article. He also happens to be a talented basketball player. I can only speak about him but he's a quiet, funny all around nice kid who has good friends on both the basketball team and baseball team. Any student who plays two sports at SJC is putting in the hard work and then some. He was never disloyal. From what my daughter says he just wanted flexibility to play in a few important high profile summer baseball events and that made a huge difference in his college options. It sickens me to hear that the story going around is that he's selfish or not willing to work. Even worse if the coach is fueling it. These are still children. How is that getting lost in all of this?

The bolded above exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this going on in the SJC football program too? Just curious. Is this the result of Kevin Plank's desire to have a sports powerhouse at SJC? Wow, this school really has its priorities backwards. So so so so so glad we decided to send our child elsewhere.

Baseball around here is full of rich kids from McLean or Bethesda. They are prime targets for the pay-to-play gang. Same with lax, and to a lesser degree soccer. Football is a very different demographic, as is basketball. There the sleazy coaches make money being gatekeepers to scouts and schools and shoe companies.

None of that should affect your high school. High school is for education and playing on the school team. All the travel team and pay to be play and seen stuff should be completely unrelated to your high school experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this going on in the SJC football program too? Just curious. Is this the result of Kevin Plank's desire to have a sports powerhouse at SJC? Wow, this school really has its priorities backwards. So so so so so glad we decided to send our child elsewhere.

Baseball around here is full of rich kids from McLean or Bethesda. They are prime targets for the pay-to-play gang. Same with lax, and to a lesser degree soccer. Football is a very different demographic, as is basketball. There the sleazy coaches make money being gatekeepers to scouts and schools and shoe companies.

None of that should affect your high school. High school is for education and playing on the school team. All the travel team and pay to be play and seen stuff should be completely unrelated to your high school experience.

I agree with that. The coaches that have burrowed in like ticks to places like SJC to suck cash out of parents are taking a different approach. To use a popular term, they have created a quid pro quo - "want to play HS ball? Pay me on the side."

[Anonymous]

My son played at St Johns. What I’m reading does not surprise me. We knew lots of players who never got the opportunities to play after high school that they should have if you consider their talent. Most were more highly regarded when they got there then when they left. All because of the coaches system. Lots of players transferred out over the years because coach did not live up to promises. LJ Hoes is the best player to come out of there, I think second or third round pick, and he didn’t play for Diamond Skills, the coaches travel program. That says something. St Johns baseball is for the kid who wants to win high school championships, which is fine, but they make you sacrifice everything else in high school to win them. That kind of sacrifice should lead to big opportunities after high school and it doesn’t happen there because it isn’t the coaches focus.

[Anonymous]

Imagine if this kind of exploitative behavoir was allowed in the class room or other areas of the school? I only write recommendation letters for students attending my private tutoring. You only play first chair if you are also my private violin student. It's reprehensible that the school opens its doors to allow this kind of extortion of parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son plays a HS fall sport at a DC private. It's a team sport. The school does well athletically but had not recently in this sport.

The school decided to bring in a new coach a couple years ago who also runs his own club team. He’s not a coach at large local club, but he has his own company running his own club. After joining the school, the coach set up his own club to basically operate out of the school, with camps, practices, games, and even cook outs held at the school. Just about every photo on his company’s website is clearly taken at the school’s facilities.
As time has progressed, more and more players from his club team have enrolled in the HS, usually as freshman. Every year a new crop of freshman show up (about 4), and they are placed on the Varsity team and given starting roles. The coach uses the school team communication system to constantly advertise his camps and club, and the message to everyone seems to be if you want to play on the school's team, you need to be a paying customer of his club team.

The problem is – probably two thirds of the players don’t have an association with his club. Which leaves 2/3 of the boys riding the bench while his club players take most of the game time. (Some of his club players are good and should be on the field. Some are no better or worse than the Juniors and Seniors his players are bumping off the field.) The coach also seems to actively segregate his club players from the rest of the team – scrimmaging them against each other, talking to them separately, giving their parents special attention, etc. I’ve also heard about the coach soliciting players from opposing schools to join his club team after games. All of this has led players to quit the team, and even to a couple of transfers out of the school. On the sidelines, the parents have segregated themselves as well, between families associated with his club team and those that are not.

My question is this – is this common? Am I naïve in expecting a school to not allow a circumstance like this to develop or persist? Is this just the way it is, and I should just deal with it, or is it worth raising as an issue? This has been going on long enough that I know that other parents have complained, but nothing has changed over the last couple of years.

This movie replays every other year. This is one reason you see at some of the more "elite" private schools in the area that the coaches are almost always teachers, whose real job is to teach and help the kids grow into young adults. When schools go outside of the teaching corps and do not think through these issues, they end up with a mess.

Hear, hear on coaches being teachers. My son is at Gonzaga and it makes an enormous difference to have Gonzaga teachers as coaches throughout the athletic program. They are truly invested in these kids and in the school community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if this kind of exploitative behavoir was allowed in the class room or other areas of the school? I only write recommendation letters for students attending my private tutoring. You only play first chair if you are also my private violin student. It's reprehensible that the school opens its doors to allow this kind of extortion of parents.

I appreciate your comparison but it’s a bit off. The equivalent would be telling a student you can only take Chemistry if you also pay me to tutor you outside class. You can only be a member of the band if you also pay me for private violin lessons. Sound absurd? Yup, but it’s exactly what’s gong on with baseball at SJC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this going on in the SJC football program too? Just curious. Is this the result of Kevin Plank's desire to have a sports powerhouse at SJC? Wow, this school really has its priorities backwards. So so so so so glad we decided to send our child elsewhere.

Baseball around here is full of rich kids from McLean or Bethesda. They are prime targets for the pay-to-play gang. Same with lax, and to a lesser degree soccer. Football is a very different demographic, as is basketball. There the sleazy coaches make money being gatekeepers to scouts and schools and shoe companies.

This wouldn't work in Football or Basketball because AAU teams that are nationally ranked get sponsored. Coaches are looking for Nike, UA, Adidas, and etc. sponsorship which cover the cost of everything. How do you get ranked....by having the best players. Yes, basketball and football have a different demographic but, I think you underestimate the cost of having your child play AAU. I have friends who children play on top teams and with travel cost they came out of pocket $20k last year each. Tournaments in every part of the US over the summer including Las Vegas for almost 2 weeks.

What team was this? My brief experience of a Nike sponsored team was that sponsorship $ paid for transportation, most meals, 4 to a room hotel, tournament entry fees, shoes, uniforms, etc. You can have out of pocket expenses if you chose to travel as a family and stay together in a room in the team hotel or chose to fly to some destinations where the team takes a van (e.g. Atlanta), but $20K per kid for an April-July high school AAU season seems like a LOT.