Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why’d the post with the news article link disappear?

Specific kids were named in the post so maybe that why it was deleted.

Well, for those who did not get to see the article, here are the cliff notes. 5 SJC baseball players, including high-level D1 recruits, have been kicked out of the SJC baseball program because their parents did not pay for their sons to play in the coaches' private travel program. The boys are being forced to transfer to other schools if they want to play high school baseball. The SJC administration has backed the coaches' decision. Presumably SJC has a Board of Directors/Trustees. They may want to take a look at the school's mission. It is probably alot different than IMG's mission, though you'd never know it based on actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, it doesn't happen at Gonzaga. Gonzaga just recruits from all over the DMV and Annapolis and Frederick etc. And how many of their star football, basketball, and lacrosse players are 1-2 years older then they should be for their grade? Quite a few, I assure you. Just like SJC and DeMatha you say? If you are a regular kid who could have played football or basketball at Gonzaga 30-35 years ago, now you can do crew or cross-country.

The whole things stinks and not just at SJC and Gonzaga.

Different poster, but vigorous recruiting is not the same as the sort of corruption/self-dealing OP and the baseball posters are describing. You know going in whether a HS recruits heavily or not, and can choose whether you like that model or would prefer a different one.

Exactly. And in case you didn't know, Gonzaga, 2019 WCAC Camps, has a varsity coach who also serves a math teacher and director of summer learning programs. No conflict of interest there. What SJC is doing is unethical. It makes it crystal clear to me where their priorities lie, and it is not academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why’d the post with the news article link disappear?

Specific kids were named in the post so maybe that why it was deleted.

Well, for those who did not get to see the article, here are the cliff notes. 5 SJC baseball players, including high-level D1 recruits, have been kicked out of the SJC baseball program because their parents did not pay for their sons to play in the coaches' private travel program. The boys are being forced to transfer to other schools if they want to play high school baseball. The SJC administration has backed the coaches' decision. Presumably SJC has a Board of Directors/Trustees. They may want to take a look at the school's mission. It is probably alot different than IMG's mission, though you'd never know it based on actions.

The message this sends is that it's not about recruiting the best players, but about recruiting the best players THAT WILL PAY. The sentence that grabbed me in the NOVA Baseball article - which was lifted from an email - said "The SJC baseball program and D.C. Cadets program (which includes the summer player development and Diamond Skills) are all linked together." Is WCAC ok with SJC running a year round program? Because that's clearly what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why’d the post with the news article link disappear?

Specific kids were named in the post so maybe that why it was deleted.

Would someone be willing to repost the parts of the article (names deleted) that talk about the pay to play aspect of the program? It's truly shocking what these guys at St. Johns are being allowed to impose on families, and I'd love to see this issue get more publicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why’d the post with the news article link disappear?

Specific kids were named in the post so maybe that why it was deleted.

Would someone be willing to repost the parts of the article (names deleted) that talk about the pay to play aspect of the program? It's truly shocking what these guys at St. Johns are being allowed to impose on families, and I'd love to see this issue get more publicity.

Here's a link: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/unc-recruit-triantos-transferring-to-madison

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why’d the post with the news article link disappear?

Specific kids were named in the post so maybe that why it was deleted.

Would someone be willing to repost the parts of the article (names deleted) that talk about the pay to play aspect of the program? It's truly shocking what these guys at St. Johns are being allowed to impose on families, and I'd love to see this issue get more publicity.

https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/unc-recruit-triantos-transferring-to-madison

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why’d the post with the news article link disappear?

Specific kids were named in the post so maybe that why it was deleted.

Would someone be willing to repost the parts of the article (names deleted) that talk about the pay to play aspect of the program? It's truly shocking what these guys at St. Johns are being allowed to impose on families, and I'd love to see this issue get more publicity.

https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/unc-recruit-triantos-transferring-to-madison

Thank you! Money quote:

"The reason for the exodus is due to the players not agreeing to pay to play exclusively during the offseason with one of Gibbs’ two travel programs, the D.C. Cadets or Diamond Skills. Gibbs and the school’s athletic director, Brian Griffin, confirmed as much in emails that were provided to the magazine.

In his email on May 28, Gibbs stated that, “Before deciding to come to SJC, I was very specific about what the commitment was going to be. This is not a ‘pick and choose’ type situation. The SJC baseball program and D.C. Cadets program (which includes the summer player development and Diamond Skills) are all linked together.”

Griffin, in an email on Aug. 15, wrote: “Coach Gibbs makes it clear to all potential players what the expectations are for the summer off-season training activities before attending St. John’s. You decided not to have [player’s name withheld] do what was required in that regard.” "

I honestly can't believe how brazen these guys are. I would be absolutely outraged if I were at the school or an alum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son plays a HS fall sport at a DC private. It's a team sport. The school does well athletically but had not recently in this sport.

The school decided to bring in a new coach a couple years ago who also runs his own club team. He’s not a coach at large local club, but he has his own company running his own club. After joining the school, the coach set up his own club to basically operate out of the school, with camps, practices, games, and even cook outs held at the school. Just about every photo on his company’s website is clearly taken at the school’s facilities.
As time has progressed, more and more players from his club team have enrolled in the HS, usually as freshman. Every year a new crop of freshman show up (about 4), and they are placed on the Varsity team and given starting roles. The coach uses the school team communication system to constantly advertise his camps and club, and the message to everyone seems to be if you want to play on the school's team, you need to be a paying customer of his club team.

The problem is – probably two thirds of the players don’t have an association with his club. Which leaves 2/3 of the boys riding the bench while his club players take most of the game time. (Some of his club players are good and should be on the field. Some are no better or worse than the Juniors and Seniors his players are bumping off the field.) The coach also seems to actively segregate his club players from the rest of the team – scrimmaging them against each other, talking to them separately, giving their parents special attention, etc. I’ve also heard about the coach soliciting players from opposing schools to join his club team after games. All of this has led players to quit the team, and even to a couple of transfers out of the school. On the sidelines, the parents have segregated themselves as well, between families associated with his club team and those that are not.

My question is this – is this common? Am I naïve in expecting a school to not allow a circumstance like this to develop or persist? Is this just the way it is, and I should just deal with it, or is it worth raising as an issue? This has been going on long enough that I know that other parents have complained, but nothing has changed over the last couple of years.

This movie replays every other year. This is one reason you see at some of the more "elite" private schools in the area that the coaches are almost always teachers, whose real job is to teach and help the kids grow into young adults. When schools go outside of the teaching corps and do not think through these issues, they end up with a mess.

[Anonymous]

It's funny when it comes to academics many schools have a specific rule a teacher cannot tutor a student that is in their class.

But for athletics?...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why’d the post with the news article link disappear?

Specific kids were named in the post so maybe that why it was deleted.

Would someone be willing to repost the parts of the article (names deleted) that talk about the pay to play aspect of the program? It's truly shocking what these guys at St. Johns are being allowed to impose on families, and I'd love to see this issue get more publicity.

https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/unc-recruit-triantos-transferring-to-madison

Thank you! Money quote:

"The reason for the exodus is due to the players not agreeing to pay to play exclusively during the offseason with one of Gibbs’ two travel programs, the D.C. Cadets or Diamond Skills. Gibbs and the school’s athletic director, Brian Griffin, confirmed as much in emails that were provided to the magazine.

In his email on May 28, Gibbs stated that, “Before deciding to come to SJC, I was very specific about what the commitment was going to be. This is not a ‘pick and choose’ type situation. The SJC baseball program and D.C. Cadets program (which includes the summer player development and Diamond Skills) are all linked together.”

Griffin, in an email on Aug. 15, wrote: “Coach Gibbs makes it clear to all potential players what the expectations are for the summer off-season training activities before attending St. John’s. You decided not to have [player’s name withheld] do what was required in that regard.” "

I honestly can't believe how brazen these guys are. I would be absolutely outraged if I were at the school or an alum.

I am a current parent, and I am outraged. I don't have anything to do with the baseball team, but the whole setup just stinks. It's unethical to start, likely against WCAC rules, and sends completely the wrong message for a Catholic school.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid at SJC now. Not in the baseball program but knows one of the boys who transferred out. The story going around, apparently fueled by the coach is that the players kicked out of the program were selfish, not loyal or dedicated to the team, not willing to put in the hard work, not SJC material. If its true they were kicked out because they wouldn't pay the coach for his side business, then his comments are slanderous. These are kids and a former coach painting them like this is not just unfair but also could hurt their futures.

[Anonymous]

I am a current parent, and I am outraged. I don't have anything to do with the baseball team, but the whole setup just stinks. It's unethical to start, likely against WCAC rules, and sends completely the wrong message for a Catholic school.

What are the WCAC rules on this? They aren't on the conference's web site. Are coaches really allowed to force players to be on their club teams during the offseason? I don't think this happens in basketball (guys play Takeover, Durant and other AAU teams). Football doesn't really have club. I don't know enough about soccer and lacrosse. Do other WCAC baseball coaches do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am a current parent, and I am outraged. I don't have anything to do with the baseball team, but the whole setup just stinks. It's unethical to start, likely against WCAC rules, and sends completely the wrong message for a Catholic school.

What are the WCAC rules on this? They aren't on the conference's web site. Are coaches really allowed to force players to be on their club teams during the offseason? I don't think this happens in basketball (guys play Takeover, Durant and other AAU teams). Football doesn't really have club. I don't know enough about soccer and lacrosse. Do other WCAC baseball coaches do this?

How about these from the WCAC Code of Ethics:

Assuring that the actions of coaches and administrators are consistent with Catholic values and exhibit fairness, openness, respect and honesty in their relationships with student-athletes, the public, and each other.
Expecting Christian sportsmanship from all constituents, including student-athletes, coaches, administrative personnel, and spectators;
Giving primary emphasis to in-league competition and conference championships;
Keeping competition focused on the welfare and development of student-athletes;

I'd say throwing kids off a team and forcing them to transfer because they refuse to participate in a pay-to-play scheme pretty much violates all of these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at SJC now. Not in the baseball program but knows one of the boys who transferred out. The story going around, apparently fueled by the coach is that the players kicked out of the program were selfish, not loyal or dedicated to the team, not willing to put in the hard work, not SJC material. If its true they were kicked out because they wouldn't pay the coach for his side business, then his comments are slanderous. These are kids and a former coach painting them like this is not just unfair but also could hurt their futures.

Sounds like the baseball coaches are reading from the Cabell Maddux lacrosse playbook (https://deadspin.com/hey-ungrateful-quitter-emails-from-an-angry-lacrosse-660703941). It does sound slanderous, but also, hopefully, all the people involved know why the kids left and will just assume it's very sour grapes from the coach and his henchmen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at SJC now. Not in the baseball program but knows one of the boys who transferred out. The story going around, apparently fueled by the coach is that the players kicked out of the program were selfish, not loyal or dedicated to the team, not willing to put in the hard work, not SJC material. If its true they were kicked out because they wouldn't pay the coach for his side business, then his comments are slanderous. These are kids and a former coach painting them like this is not just unfair but also could hurt their futures.

Sounds like the baseball coaches are reading from the Cabell Maddux lacrosse playbook (https://deadspin.com/hey-ungrateful-quitter-emails-from-an-angry-lacrosse-660703941). It does sound slanderous, but also, hopefully, all the people involved know why the kids left and will just assume it's very sour grapes from the coach and his henchmen.

It's pretty transparent. Sounds like they squeezed the parents just a bit too hard on the $. Anyone that can buy a house to get their kid in the public school they wanted on short notice probably laughed these grifters off.