Racism / Classism on DCurbanmom trolls or true?

[Anonymous]

I'm done with all of you. Just do me the courtesy of taking those MLK posters off your houses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm done with all of you. Just do me the courtesy of taking those MLK posters off your houses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

I think one thing the holier-than-thou posters here forget is that many of the gentrifier parents in these threads want to INTEGRATE schools further. My own local ES is only ~10% high SES despite the neighborhood being ~50% high SES. I'd prefer the school be more reflective of the neighborhood, NOT less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

I think one thing the holier-than-thou posters here forget is that many of the gentrifier parents in these threads want to INTEGRATE schools further. My own local ES is only ~10% high SES despite the neighborhood being ~50% high SES. I'd prefer the school be more reflective of the neighborhood, NOT less.

So send your kid there. What's the big deal?

[Anonymous]

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

This just gave me a great idea for solving the overcrowding problem at Wilson ... let's just integrate Wilson and Ellington by clustering them. The Ellington building is within the Wilson feeder boundaries, so it makes perfect sense. Students will attend Ellington for 9th grade, and then move to Wilson for 10th-12th. This will also help integrate Ellington by making it more diverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm done with all of you. Just do me the courtesy of taking those MLK posters off your houses.

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

I think one thing the holier-than-thou posters here forget is that many of the gentrifier parents in these threads want to INTEGRATE schools further. My own local ES is only ~10% high SES despite the neighborhood being ~50% high SES. I'd prefer the school be more reflective of the neighborhood, NOT less.

So send your kid there. What's the big deal?

I actually plan to send my kid there for PK3 and 4, but cohort matters a lot. That's the big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

I think one thing the holier-than-thou posters here forget is that many of the gentrifier parents in these threads want to INTEGRATE schools further. My own local ES is only ~10% high SES despite the neighborhood being ~50% high SES. I'd prefer the school be more reflective of the neighborhood, NOT less.

So send your kid there. What's the big deal?

I actually plan to send my kid there for PK3 and 4, but cohort matters a lot. That's the big deal.

Why only PK3/4? You have an opportunity to get to know the actual cohort rather than judging them based on statistical correlations. The issues really aren't as black and white as the amateur statisticians here make them out to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

I think one thing the holier-than-thou posters here forget is that many of the gentrifier parents in these threads want to INTEGRATE schools further. My own local ES is only ~10% high SES despite the neighborhood being ~50% high SES. I'd prefer the school be more reflective of the neighborhood, NOT less.

So send your kid there. What's the big deal?

I actually plan to send my kid there for PK3 and 4, but cohort matters a lot. That's the big deal.

Why only PK3/4? You have an opportunity to get to know the actual cohort rather than judging them based on statistical correlations. The issues really aren't as black and white as the amateur statisticians here make them out to be.

It's a classic first mover problem. It is idiotic, if everyone who is actually zoned to the school went the problem would be solved instead everyone is afraid to be the first mover and moves/seeks out other options instead. I think capitol hill people should look into the history of the Wilson pyramid. Less than 10 years ago nobody was sending their kids their either and now its fine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

I think one thing the holier-than-thou posters here forget is that many of the gentrifier parents in these threads want to INTEGRATE schools further. My own local ES is only ~10% high SES despite the neighborhood being ~50% high SES. I'd prefer the school be more reflective of the neighborhood, NOT less.

So send your kid there. What's the big deal?

I actually plan to send my kid there for PK3 and 4, but cohort matters a lot. That's the big deal.

Why only PK3/4? You have an opportunity to get to know the actual cohort rather than judging them based on statistical correlations. The issues really aren't as black and white as the amateur statisticians here make them out to be.

It's a classic first mover problem. It is idiotic, if everyone who is actually zoned to the school went the problem would be solved instead everyone is afraid to be the first mover and moves/seeks out other options instead. I think capitol hill people should look into the history of the Wilson pyramid. Less than 10 years ago nobody was sending their kids their either and now its fine

I don't think that's true. There are lawyers and journalists living on my block in AU Park who sent their kids to Deal and Wilson and they are all several years beyond college now.

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile, here's a 5 page thread on black parents worried about sending their kids to Wilson. I doubt they would even pretend to consider Dunbar or Roosevelt.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/572935.page

What does that make them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

I think one thing the holier-than-thou posters here forget is that many of the gentrifier parents in these threads want to INTEGRATE schools further. My own local ES is only ~10% high SES despite the neighborhood being ~50% high SES. I'd prefer the school be more reflective of the neighborhood, NOT less.

So send your kid there. What's the big deal?

I actually plan to send my kid there for PK3 and 4, but cohort matters a lot. That's the big deal.

Why only PK3/4? You have an opportunity to get to know the actual cohort rather than judging them based on statistical correlations. The issues really aren't as black and white as the amateur statisticians here make them out to be.

I haven't ruled out sending her for K, I will evaluate based on my actual experience there. That said, there are ongoing (severe) administration issues that make me less convinced the school is in good enough shape post-ECE to work. We'll see. I hope things get back on track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm done with all of you. Just do me the courtesy of taking those MLK posters off your houses.

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."

But only learn to live together if my child's school has a certain % or above of not poor kids.

If not, then I'll just move to the suburbs and learn to live with people that look like me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm done with all of you. Just do me the courtesy of taking those MLK posters off your houses.

"We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."

But only learn to live together if my child's school has a certain % or above of not poor kids.

If not, then I'll just move to the suburbs and learn to live with people that look like me.

No-- it's "if not then I'll just move to the burbs and learn to live with people who make as much money as me."

Why is this so hard to accept?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile, here's a 5 page thread on black parents worried about sending their kids to Wilson. I doubt they would even pretend to consider Dunbar or Roosevelt.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/572935.page

What does that make them?

Oh it's ok for black parents to worry about schools. But if white parents do, they're racists.