Racism / Classism on DCurbanmom trolls or true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the bottom line is always the SES. Every single study shows that schools with signigicant concectrations of poverty have much higher rates of violence and other bahvioral issues. On top of the fact that kids from high poverty homes are almost always behind (this is not a race issues, my family is from WV and there is no way in hell I would send them to those all white redneck schools either). This isnt about trolling OP (what a dumb assumption), its about the facts of poverty and DCPS failing to realize they are also failing their brightest students.

A) why are you assuming that the "brightest students" are always the high SES ones?
B) in the context of this discussion, gentrification is impossible to ignore. the fact is a large proportion of DCUM posters CHOSE to move to their neighborhoods, where the "low SES" people live. It becomes quite ugly and questionable when not only do they take over the neighborhood real estate, but also demand to take over the schools as well. You don't get to both live in your nice urban neighborhood, enjoy the property appreciation, AND ignore the fact that people were there before you.

Well, God forbid people want to live in a neighborhood, live in a city, and want their children to receive appropriate ciity services. Clearly we white gentrified need to sit down and shut up. Thanks for the reminder.

FYI, ain't gonna happen.

Also, you can be angry white flight happened or you can be angry white people are moving back. Doesn't make sense to be angry about both.

[Anonymous]

Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

way to miss the point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the bottom line is always the SES. Every single study shows that schools with signigicant concectrations of poverty have much higher rates of violence and other bahvioral issues. On top of the fact that kids from high poverty homes are almost always behind (this is not a race issues, my family is from WV and there is no way in hell I would send them to those all white redneck schools either). This isnt about trolling OP (what a dumb assumption), its about the facts of poverty and DCPS failing to realize they are also failing their brightest students.

I agree that it's poverty more than race, but please consider that you are in DC. There are almost no school children in DC who are living in poverty who are white. You can have the conversation in different ways in different areas, but when you are talking about DCPS, race and class stand as proxies for each other. Yes, I'm perfectly well aware of the many middle class Black families in DC with children. It's still next to impossible to extricate race and class in this city.

True, and so...? Even if race and SES are proxies in DC, that doesn't mean that parents who don't want to send their child to a high poverty school are racist, because race is not the driving factor in their decisions, even if it is correlated with the factor that is. Nobody is denying that the correlation may largely be the result of historic discrimination and institutional racism, but that is an issue that's separate from these parents' motivations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

+1. And yeah, wealthy black people can be "much less hypocritical" about this choice because they can't be accused of racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

way to miss the point

It's not missing the point. People on this thread are claiming that because DC's demographics break down the way they do, all people who seek out high SES cohorts are therefore racist and they are looking to avoid brown people. That is missing the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the bottom line is always the SES. Every single study shows that schools with signigicant concectrations of poverty have much higher rates of violence and other bahvioral issues. On top of the fact that kids from high poverty homes are almost always behind (this is not a race issues, my family is from WV and there is no way in hell I would send them to those all white redneck schools either). This isnt about trolling OP (what a dumb assumption), its about the facts of poverty and DCPS failing to realize they are also failing their brightest students.

I agree that it's poverty more than race, but please consider that you are in DC. There are almost no school children in DC who are living in poverty who are white. You can have the conversation in different ways in different areas, but when you are talking about DCPS, race and class stand as proxies for each other. Yes, I'm perfectly well aware of the many middle class Black families in DC with children. It's still next to impossible to extricate race and class in this city.

True, and so...? Even if race and SES are proxies in DC, that doesn't mean that parents who don't want to send their child to a high poverty school are racist, because race is not the driving factor in their decisions, even if it is correlated with the factor that is. Nobody is denying that the correlation may largely be the result of historic discrimination and institutional racism, but that is an issue that's separate from these parents' motivations.

+100000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

way to miss the point

It's not missing the point. People on this thread are claiming that because DC's demographics break down the way they do, all people who seek out high SES cohorts are therefore racist and they are looking to avoid brown people. That is missing the point.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

Amen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Huh, what? No, the "resource" is neighborhood schools. Not white people. Where did you get that? The situation for educated white and black parents is obviously different vis a vis racism, but if wealthy black parents in large numbers are refusing to use their neighborhood schools, then that continues to be an issue of class and gentrification. Just likely much less hypocritical.

If wealthy white parents refuse to use their neighborhood school, you call that racism. But if wealthy black parents make the same choice, you call that an issue of "class and gentrification." Sounds to me like you're making a lot of inconsistent judgments about other people based on nothing but their skin color.

I know you're pleased with your high school debate-level logic, but there actually are differences between racism and classism, and the race of the actor does matter. But more important, the impact on DC schools is not due to that relatively small group of affluent black parents.

No doubt there are differences between racism and classism, although they intersect pretty naturally in DC. But my frustration is that you and others on this thread are too quick to label the actions and decisions of white parents as racism, without making any effort to listen to their actual motivations. That hair-trigger approach to charging racism does nothing to advance the discussion and only breeds more resentment on both sides. And when you hold black parents to a different standard, and make excuses for them when they make the exact same choices for the same reasons as their neighbors who are white, you are revealing the hypocrisy and further eroding trust.

By the way, your random insults ("high school debate logic") may make you feel better, but they don't make your point any more effective, so you can stow them.

I have SEEN this play out in my own neighborhood where white parents actively refused to even consider integrating "their" school. I am 100% positive they would claim their motives are other than race. But your express motive doesn't really matter if the result is segregation. I am sure that well meaning whites during Jim Crow sincerely believed that separate but equal was ok, black people were fine, but they just shouldn't mix. I know my Hill neighbors are not KKK. That does not make their refusal to integrate any less racially discriminatory.

This is the fundamental error in your argument. As long as you don't see that, and keep calling most white parents in DC racists, we might as well stop talking to each other.

are you a parent who will actively fight against integrating schools? then you are racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

way to miss the point

It's not missing the point. People on this thread are claiming that because DC's demographics break down the way they do, all people who seek out high SES cohorts are therefore racist and they are looking to avoid brown people. That is missing the point.

Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

way to miss the point

It's not missing the point. People on this thread are claiming that because DC's demographics break down the way they do, all people who seek out high SES cohorts are therefore racist and they are looking to avoid brown people. That is missing the point.

Banneker.

NP. There's a huge difference between "looking to avoid brown people" and not wanting to be a 1% minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

way to miss the point

It's not missing the point. People on this thread are claiming that because DC's demographics break down the way they do, all people who seek out high SES cohorts are therefore racist and they are looking to avoid brown people. That is missing the point.

Banneker.

Ranked lower than SWW and Wilson by USN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are two facts about education:

1. SES correlates to student achievement.
2. Cohorts also affect student achievement.

Thus parents who are focused on achievement seek out cohorts with high SES families.

That is a sum total of the motivation of most parents.

way to miss the point

It's not missing the point. People on this thread are claiming that because DC's demographics break down the way they do, all people who seek out high SES cohorts are therefore racist and they are looking to avoid brown people. That is missing the point.

Banneker.

Yes and the system has made it so those are the only options. White people should demand more of the system. For their own children and for the black kids.
NP. There's a huge difference between "looking to avoid brown people" and not wanting to be a 1% minority.