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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Another atheist, who does not believe in hell, or any afterlife.

So what happens if a murderer/rapist/abuser does not "find" the correct religion/god in their life. Do they get a pass to repent, and then go to heaven?

But then again how can a murderer/rapist/abuser not know that their actions are wrong, no matter what, regardless of believing in a religion/god?

How can a god NOT put a murderer/rapist/abuser in hell, even if they "repent" a million times over?

And if repentance is not necessary to enter heaven, then what's the point of religion/god?

Ultimately I don't believe in any of it. The heaven/hell/afterlife question is just one of many, many reasons why I don't believe in religion/god. [/quote]
Repentence IS necessary to enter Heaven. And what would the threshold be for evil acts before you're disqualified? That's why the murderer/rapist/abuser argument is tough to defend down the line. When do the scales get tipped so that you're beyond hope? But God in His love and mercy is willing to forgive anyone who seeks forgiveness through Christ.[/quote]

Situation:

The child rapist dies b/c  the father of the child he raped and killed shot him in the heart.  The rapist dies and is traveling around until he sees St. Peter at the pearly gates.  He becomes frightened and repents.  He enters heaven.

The father who shot him dies of a broken heart.  He floats to the pearly gates but doesn't repent, feeling as though he had been justified in killing that fucking bastard who took his daughter's life.  He is condemned to hell.

What's wrong with this picture, you nutty Christians?  
[/quote]

... But God loves us, and He gave His son, Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, to die on the cross for our sins, and if we trust in that, He will save us. It's just that simple. He is kind and merciful, and all He asks is that you confess your sins and ask to be forgiven. .....[/quote]

Let's say there are three 35 year old guys who commit the same terrible sin.  One drops dead a year later without repenting.  That guy goes to hell.

The second guy gets cancer, of which he dies slowly, over a period of a year, giving him a chance to sincerely repent his sin.   He goes to heaven.

Guy #3 goes on to commit that terrible sin numerous times during his long life, but accepts Jesus as his savior at the age of 80, repents, never sins like that again and dies peacefully in his 90's.  He goes to heaven too.

Sorry, I don't see God's kindness and mercy there.  I see the most sinful guy getting the best deal, simply because he lived longer, which gave him a chance to sin more, but also to be forgiven for his many sins, that harmed many more innocent people, whom God also supposedly loves. [/quote]
Are you suggesting that sinning is a benefit to us in this life?[/quote]

What the three scenarios above suggest is that happenstance or luck (or perhaps God's will)  can result in someone going to heaven who sinned more and caused pain to many more people, while someone who sinned less and did less harm will suffer eternally.  Are you suggesting that this is acceptable to God? 
[/quote]
The simple message of Christianity is that we all sin, and that sin leads to spiritual death, which puts us in Hell. But if we accept Christ, God will forgive us, and we will have eternal life with Him in Heaven. You are looking at your scenarios from a human perspective, as though you are saying some sin is acceptable and some isn't, and as though you are judging for yourself whose sin is unpardonable and whose isn't. The Bible is very clear that we ALL sin, so from God's perspective, we ALL need Christ. That's the point. Christ is for everyone. Let me ask you, are you [i]wanting[/i] some people to go to Hell? If not, why are you preoccupied over how badly some people sin vs. others? And if you are, why are you blaming God for judging us on faith and our actions? The message of Christianity is that, even though we all sin, God loves us all equally, and wants all of us to come to repentance and a knowledge of the truth. This is a loving God who will not condemn any of us for our actions if we put our trust in the sacrifice He provided for our own sins. We are not supposed to worry about other people's sins but our own. Some Christians get a bad rap about being so judgmental, but a true Christian isn't that way. We all understand that we're all guilty before God. It's not my desire to point out anyone's specific sins; rather, I want people to understand that God says they're sinners in general and need Christ. God will deal with each one of us as He sees fit, and no one can honestly deny that he or she sins. If you don't want Christians to be judgmental, why are you trying to be so?

Here is a parable that Jesus told that addresses this. God's wisdom (and love and mercy) are much greater than our own.

Matthew 20:1-16: For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ So the last will be first, and the first last.”

A truly loving heart would rejoice over any sinner coming to Christ and entering Heaven, regardless of how long that sinner's "earned" it.[/quote]

This is so simplistic.

You nuts act as though any passage from the bible supports your bullshit theory that repentance is a way to earn our wings.

I'll be flying around in heaven with the child rapist and Anton LaVey (if he repented, that is).

I love it.[/quote]

"Situations" pp here -- it's also vague and not addressing the issues presented, which we've seen before here when conservative Christians really don't have a cogent response.[/quote]
What? I'm the "fundie" Christian PP. I addressed at length all the scenarios you presented in an earlier response, and I elaborated on them again here. And you can't get much more cogent than: We are all sinners, but we can either be forgiven through Christ and go to Heaven or die in our sins and go to Hell. God is a merciful God to make the issue that stark. I understand that you don't accept or like that answer, but that is classical Christian teaching, very easy to defend with voluminous Scripture, and addresses everybody.  I'm not trying be argumentative, but I'm baffled how you can say your premises weren't addressed. [/quote]

"Voluminous scripture" proves nothing.

In a thousand years from now, some culture could make [i]50 Shades of Gray[/i] its bible.

Get it?[/quote]

not pp. What I don't "get" is how you keep demanding an answer that will satisfy you from the pp when nothing she posts will satisfy you. She is saying this what I believe based on ABC. And you're saying, OK, well your belief is a load of crap.

It has been stablished you don't put any value into organized religion yet you want her to defend it. Why? What is your point? To change her mind? To air your grievances?

Sounds like you're trying to "convert" people to your way of thinking.[/quote]

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