MCPS policy on not returning quizzes, tests and exams to students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

Here's what I don't get about your opinion. If the tests mirror what was taught and they mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger), why do they need that particular test to study? Besides, these tests that don't come home are the summatives, which occur at the end of a unit. So there is not going to be another test on the material.

"If the tests mirror what was taught" -- assumes that it does mirror what was taught, and that it was taught well. Sometimes true, more often isn't.
"If the tests mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger)" -- in some ways they do, and in some ways they don't. Also, it's a different circumstance. Time pressure is much different, and that makes a huge difference for some kids -- either due to anxiety or differences in speed.
So, no, the way they do it now is not good enough. There's no good reason not to let kids have the advantage of getting their own tests and being able to spend time with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

Here's what I don't get about your opinion. If the tests mirror what was taught and they mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger), why do they need that particular test to study? Besides, these tests that don't come home are the summatives, which occur at the end of a unit. So there is not going to be another test on the material.

"If the tests mirror what was taught" -- assumes that it does mirror what was taught, and that it was taught well. Sometimes true, more often isn't.
"If the tests mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger)" -- in some ways they do, and in some ways they don't. Also, it's a different circumstance. Time pressure is much different, and that makes a huge difference for some kids -- either due to anxiety or differences in speed.
So, no, the way they do it now is not good enough. There's no good reason not to let kids have the advantage of getting their own tests and being able to spend time with them.

PP, has your child tried to retake a test? Is it available as an option? Maybe that's a way for him/her (and for you) to get comfortable with the test process and the material. From what's been posted, it seems like a good way to do that. Someday (college?) those kinds of dry runs, do-overs and opportunities to get copies of past tests won't exist. Test taking is a skill in and of itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

Here's what I don't get about your opinion. If the tests mirror what was taught and they mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger), why do they need that particular test to study? Besides, these tests that don't come home are the summatives, which occur at the end of a unit. So there is not going to be another test on the material.

"If the tests mirror what was taught" -- assumes that it does mirror what was taught, and that it was taught well. Sometimes true, more often isn't.
"If the tests mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger)" -- in some ways they do, and in some ways they don't. Also, it's a different circumstance. Time pressure is much different, and that makes a huge difference for some kids -- either due to anxiety or differences in speed.
So, no, the way they do it now is not good enough. There's no good reason not to let kids have the advantage of getting their own tests and being able to spend time with them.

PP, has your child tried to retake a test? Is it available as an option? Maybe that's a way for him/her (and for you) to get comfortable with the test process and the material. From what's been posted, it seems like a good way to do that. Someday (college?) those kinds of dry runs, do-overs and opportunities to get copies of past tests won't exist. Test taking is a skill in and of itself.

Actually in college you get your test back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP, has your child tried to retake a test? Is it available as an option? Maybe that's a way for him/her (and for you) to get comfortable with the test process and the material. From what's been posted, it seems like a good way to do that. Someday (college?) those kinds of dry runs, do-overs and opportunities to get copies of past tests won't exist. Test taking is a skill in and of itself.

Actually in college you get your test back.

I don't think you can say this categorically unless you're saying there's some universal college experience. For myself, I'm not sure if that's true. I definitely didn't get those scantron-type tests back. I got my essay responses back (the ones in those blue test booklets), but I don't recall getting the test questions back in all cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

Here's what I don't get about your opinion. If the tests mirror what was taught and they mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger), why do they need that particular test to study? Besides, these tests that don't come home are the summatives, which occur at the end of a unit. So there is not going to be another test on the material.

You have a couple of assumptions in there that don't hold, IME.

Well, having gone through MCPS middle school with two kids and now in high school, this is exactly my experience. So I'm not sure what assumptions you think are incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP, has your child tried to retake a test? Is it available as an option? Maybe that's a way for him/her (and for you) to get comfortable with the test process and the material. From what's been posted, it seems like a good way to do that. Someday (college?) those kinds of dry runs, do-overs and opportunities to get copies of past tests won't exist. Test taking is a skill in and of itself.

Actually in college you get your test back.

I don't think you can say this categorically unless you're saying there's some universal college experience. For myself, I'm not sure if that's true. I definitely didn't get those scantron-type tests back. I got my essay responses back (the ones in those blue test booklets), but I don't recall getting the test questions back in all cases.

I always got all my test back and my papers back with comments. And I took no scantron tests in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

Here's what I don't get about your opinion. If the tests mirror what was taught and they mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger), why do they need that particular test to study? Besides, these tests that don't come home are the summatives, which occur at the end of a unit. So there is not going to be another test on the material.

You have a couple of assumptions in there that don't hold, IME.

Well, having gone through MCPS middle school with two kids and now in high school, this is exactly my experience. So I'm not sure what assumptions you think are incorrect. [/quot

I stated them at 10:55

[Anonymous]

I am a MCPS teacher. The failure rate for first try on our school based quizzes and tests is equal to our failure rate on County assessments. The parents are unaware because students retake the school based formatives generally pretty successfully. The County assessments reflect what the student is capable of on the first try.

[Anonymous]

Why would that be? Is the retake easier? Do the students forget what they learn? For my own children, I do not find this to be true at all. In fact, they have been told by their teachers that the school/teacher designed tests are generally harder since they are geared to a smaller group of kids. Not a W school either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And yes, one can be bright and still need to retest to work on showing all work -- and preventing careless mistakes. Also, I have high expectations and pushed her to seek a retake to learn early on what's expected on school tests so that those kinds of mistakes are not made again. And they have not. Surely you can't disagree with that strategy, seeing as you want to see past assessments for the same reason, yes?

Yes, I agree with you. Retaking a test can be an excellent learning experience.

What I don't understand is why you think it hurts a student to have all graded exams returned home. You quoted a teacher as saying that the retest process is "meant to be burdensome." Certainly the school does not have the resources to have more than a small fraction of students retake a test. You are fortunate that your child has mastered the art of test taking (at least through the first 4 weeks of school) after one retest experience. What about students who are struggling in the class -- getting Cs or lower on their tests but not able to see their marked-up tests without making an appointment with the teacher?
Even for those doing well in class, the graded tests can be a valuable resource at home. I always found that, following summer vacation, going through my old tests was an excellent review for a new year. (Most classes are cumulative, relying on a solid understanding of the previous year's work.)
Both the retest process and studying grading exams at home are valuable learning tools. There is no need for them to be mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And yes, one can be bright and still need to retest to work on showing all work -- and preventing careless mistakes. Also, I have high expectations and pushed her to seek a retake to learn early on what's expected on school tests so that those kinds of mistakes are not made again. And they have not. Surely you can't disagree with that strategy, seeing as you want to see past assessments for the same reason, yes?

Yes, I agree with you. Retaking a test can be an excellent learning experience.

What I don't understand is why you think it hurts a student to have all graded exams returned home. You quoted a teacher as saying that the retest process is "meant to be burdensome." Certainly the school does not have the resources to have more than a small fraction of students retake a test. You are fortunate that your child has mastered the art of test taking (at least through the first 4 weeks of school) after one retest experience. What about students who are struggling in the class -- getting Cs or lower on their tests but not able to see their marked-up tests without making an appointment with the teacher?
Even for those doing well in class, the graded tests can be a valuable resource at home. I always found that, following summer vacation, going through my old tests was an excellent review for a new year. (Most classes are cumulative, relying on a solid understanding of the previous year's work.)
Both the retest process and studying grading exams at home are valuable learning tools. There is no need for them to be mutually exclusive.

No retakes in real life.

[Anonymous]

Sure there are. People issue updates and corrections all the time. You can take the SATs multiple times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would that be? Is the retake easier? Do the students forget what they learn? For my own children, I do not find this to be true at all. In fact, they have been told by their teachers that the school/teacher designed tests are generally harder since they are geared to a smaller group of kids. Not a W school either.

Not easier, but there is more time to study. I think the finals pass rate would be higher with retakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No retakes in real life.

Tell that to Bob Dole. He took/retook the run-for-president test in 1980, 1988, and 1996. He never did pass it, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So let me get this straight. MCPS doesn't return tests but they let kids retake them for higher grades? Am I the only one who thinks this is ass-backwards?

No, you have it backwards.

I can see the tests if I schedule an appointment so I am kinda okay with that, but I do not like the retesting policy. You either study or you don't. And this 15% curve they gave for the final algebra exam last year is insane. Seriously, how bad are these teachers that they can not teach the requirements correctly? The system and grading is so flawed. It is nearly impossible to fail a class. And if my child works hard on time to study and prepare for a test how does another student who didn't but gets a redo allowed the same grade? If they only want kids to understand and who cares about grades, then why grade to begin with?

agreed! If my child works their butt off on time and gets A's why are other kids being allowed to retake tests to up their grade to the same as others got initially. Final grades look the same.