MCPS policy on not returning quizzes, tests and exams to students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They prepare review packets. They return tests. They review the answers with students. They do not let students keep a copy of the test. They are available for additional review and reteaching outside of class. If a student needs to do additional review they have the same resources they did the first time around.

Depends on the test. If it is a school-level test, i.e., not a county assessment, the test goes home. My kid has a binder with all her homework and past school tests and she can use them to help study for tests and retests. Does no one read past posts? I retyped the Pyle retest policy in full and posted it earlier. It makes clear that you can only retake those tests that are returned to you -- you don't take home county assessments to keep and you cannot retake county assessments. You can only take school formative assessments home and you can only apply to retake school formative assessments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They prepare review packets. They return tests. They review the answers with students. They do not let students keep a copy of the test. They are available for additional review and reteaching outside of class. If a student needs to do additional review they have the same resources they did the first time around.

Depends on the test. If it is a school-level test, i.e., not a county assessment, the test goes home. My kid has a binder with all her homework and past school tests and she can use them to help study for tests and retests. Does no one read past posts? I retyped the Pyle retest policy in full and posted it earlier. It makes clear that you can only retake those tests that are returned to you -- you don't take home county assessments to keep and you cannot retake county assessments. You can only take school formative assessments home and you can only apply to retake school formative assessments.

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So let me get this straight. MCPS doesn't return tests but they let kids retake them for higher grades? Am I the only one who thinks this is ass-backwards?

No, you have it backwards.

[Anonymous]

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So let me get this straight. MCPS doesn't return tests but they let kids retake them for higher grades? Am I the only one who thinks this is ass-backwards?

No, you have it backwards.

I can see the tests if I schedule an appointment so I am kinda okay with that, but I do not like the retesting policy. You either study or you don't. And this 15% curve they gave for the final algebra exam last year is insane. Seriously, how bad are these teachers that they can not teach the requirements correctly? The system and grading is so flawed. It is nearly impossible to fail a class. And if my child works hard on time to study and prepare for a test how does another student who didn't but gets a redo allowed the same grade? If they only want kids to understand and who cares about grades, then why grade to begin with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Really, that's your argument? That I've got an imaginary kid? .

I don't know (or care) whether you have a kid or not. But is very unlikely your kid said all the things you said she did. And you might be
a parent, but you are also very likely an MCPS employee. Here are a couple of the reasons why I believe this. (There are several more but I don't want to reveal all my secrets...

1. Your "kid" talks like an professional in education. "My kid tells me they get all the non-county formative assessments back." "My kid
says that there is also a retake policy in place for other classes like science and language, and that while summatives and county-level formatives are not returned to be kept in student binders, they get them back in class." That doesn't sound like any 13 year old that I know. And why do you need your kid to tell you what is returned home -- don't you see it yourself?

2. You don't talk like a parent. This thread was started by parents who are frustrated that tests and quizzes are not being returned home. From a parent's viewpoint, there is *zero* downside to having tests returned. They can always be thrown in the trash if the parent or child are not interested in looking at them. But test might also
help a parent monitor her child's work, or help a child review their mistakes. The most a parent might say is "I recognize that MCPS sometimes has conflicting commitments and
because of their need to ensure secure uniform grading procedures, I understand that it is not possible to return all tests."

But an MCPS employee might view this thread as criticism and react defensively. And the reaction might be a non-sequitur
about the four step process in her MS to retake tests. (And this retake process is both "completely transparent" and "meant to be burdensome so kids don't just screw around.")

3. It is very rare -- even on DCUM - for a parent to constantly refer to the child that she brought up from infancy as "My kid".
(The plural form "kids" is always fine, and of course it is fine to refer to somebody else's kid.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So let me get this straight. MCPS doesn't return tests but they let kids retake them for higher grades? Am I the only one who thinks this is ass-backwards?

No, you have it backwards.

I can see the tests if I schedule an appointment so I am kinda okay with that, but I do not like the retesting policy. You either study or you don't. And this 15% curve they gave for the final algebra exam last year is insane. Seriously, how bad are these teachers that they can not teach the requirements correctly? The system and grading is so flawed. It is nearly impossible to fail a class. And if my child works hard on time to study and prepare for a test how does another student who didn't but gets a redo allowed the same grade? If they only want kids to understand and who cares about grades, then why grade to begin with?

This is like the P world in early ES, except everyone is a great student. The grade inflation then makes the SATs all the more critical.

However, retakes were limited at our school. I think you got one or two per class and had to do them within 2 weeks from the original test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really, that's your argument? That I've got an imaginary kid? .

I don't know (or care) whether you have a kid or not. But is very unlikely your kid said all the things you said she did. And you might be
a parent, but you are also very likely an MCPS employee. Here are a couple of the reasons why I believe this. (There are several more but I don't want to reveal all my secrets...

1. Your "kid" talks like an professional in education. "My kid tells me they get all the non-county formative assessments back." "My kid
says that there is also a retake policy in place for other classes like science and language, and that while summatives and county-level formatives are not returned to be kept in student binders, they get them back in class." That doesn't sound like any 13 year old that I know. And why do you need your kid to tell you what is returned home -- don't you see it yourself?

2. You don't talk like a parent. This thread was started by parents who are frustrated that tests and quizzes are not being returned home. From a parent's viewpoint, there is *zero* downside to having tests returned. They can always be thrown in the trash if the parent or child are not interested in looking at them. But test might also
help a parent monitor her child's work, or help a child review their mistakes. The most a parent might say is "I recognize that MCPS sometimes has conflicting commitments and
because of their need to ensure secure uniform grading procedures, I understand that it is not possible to return all tests."

But an MCPS employee might view this thread as criticism and react defensively. And the reaction might be a non-sequitur
about the four step process in her MS to retake tests. (And this retake process is both "completely transparent" and "meant to be burdensome so kids don't just screw around.")

3. It is very rare -- even on DCUM - for a parent to constantly refer to the child that she brought up from infancy as "My kid".
(The plural form "kids" is always fine, and of course it is fine to refer to somebody else's kid.)

Hilarious. I'm a fake parent because I call my kid a kid. And sorry that I (and my "child" -- better?) use the vocabulary used in the policies that the school distributes at BTSN and uses in emails and meetings we attend. I read. I listen. I'm not automatically looking to call out the school for lying or obfuscating. My kid -- sorry, my child -- retook a test using the procedure outlined in the policy I restyled above, and it was a good learning experience. Funny how you complain that every county assessment doesn't come home to you for parental dissection with your child in the comfort of your home and at your leisure, but my child reviewing her earlier test, correcting the errors, doing more practice questions with me, and employing the reinforced learning to retake the test to confirm her improved understanding -- is wrong and ridiculous.

No, notwithstanding your impeccable logic and investigatory skills (sarcasm alert), I am a Real Live Parent who actually lives in Montgomery County and has a child at Pyle and has never been a teacher or any other employee (or even a consultant) of MCPS. I'm a lawyer, so I like words, enjoy logical arguments, and evidence. You don't have to believe me -- that's fine. The fact that you feel the need to discount every single person that says something you refuse to believe as merely an MCPS shill says much more about the veracity and worth of your posts than about anyone else's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

Here's what I don't get about your opinion. If the tests mirror what was taught and they mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger), why do they need that particular test to study? Besides, these tests that don't come home are the summatives, which occur at the end of a unit. So there is not going to be another test on the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really, that's your argument? That I've got an imaginary kid? .

I don't know (or care) whether you have a kid or not. But is very unlikely your kid said all the things you said she did. And you might be
a parent, but you are also very likely an MCPS employee. Here are a couple of the reasons why I believe this. (There are several more but I don't want to reveal all my secrets...

1. Your "kid" talks like an professional in education. "My kid tells me they get all the non-county formative assessments back." "My kid
says that there is also a retake policy in place for other classes like science and language, and that while summatives and county-level formatives are not returned to be kept in student binders, they get them back in class." That doesn't sound like any 13 year old that I know. And why do you need your kid to tell you what is returned home -- don't you see it yourself?

2. You don't talk like a parent. This thread was started by parents who are frustrated that tests and quizzes are not being returned home. From a parent's viewpoint, there is *zero* downside to having tests returned. They can always be thrown in the trash if the parent or child are not interested in looking at them. But test might also
help a parent monitor her child's work, or help a child review their mistakes. The most a parent might say is "I recognize that MCPS sometimes has conflicting commitments and
because of their need to ensure secure uniform grading procedures, I understand that it is not possible to return all tests."

But an MCPS employee might view this thread as criticism and react defensively. And the reaction might be a non-sequitur
about the four step process in her MS to retake tests. (And this retake process is both "completely transparent" and "meant to be burdensome so kids don't just screw around.")

3. It is very rare -- even on DCUM - for a parent to constantly refer to the child that she brought up from infancy as "My kid".
(The plural form "kids" is always fine, and of course it is fine to refer to somebody else's kid.)

Hilarious. I'm a fake parent because I call my kid a kid. And sorry that I (and my "child" -- better?) use the vocabulary used in the policies that the school distributes at BTSN and uses in emails and meetings we attend. I read. I listen. I'm not automatically looking to call out the school for lying or obfuscating. My kid -- sorry, my child -- retook a test using the procedure outlined in the policy I restyled above, and it was a good learning experience. Funny how you complain that every county assessment doesn't come home to you for parental dissection with your child in the comfort of your home and at your leisure, but my child reviewing her earlier test, correcting the errors, doing more practice questions with me, and employing the reinforced learning to retake the test to confirm her improved understanding -- is wrong and ridiculous.

No, notwithstanding your impeccable logic and investigatory skills (sarcasm alert), I am a Real Live Parent who actually lives in Montgomery County and has a child at Pyle and has never been a teacher or any other employee (or even a consultant) of MCPS. I'm a lawyer, so I like words, enjoy logical arguments, and evidence. You don't have to believe me -- that's fine. The fact that you feel the need to discount every single person that says something you refuse to believe as merely an MCPS shill says much more about the veracity and worth of your posts than about anyone else's.

That would be the policy I retyped above. Darn autocorrect. Also, my kid is 11, not 13. What can I say, she is capable of using big words and concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

3. It is very rare -- even on DCUM - for a parent to constantly refer to the child that she brought up from infancy as "My kid".
(The plural form "kids" is always fine, and of course it is fine to refer to somebody else's kid.)

I call my kid "my kid" on DCUM. And I'm not the parent with a kid at Pyle.

Meanwhile, what does it say about you, PP, that you go to so much trouble to explain to an anonymous person on the Internet, who disagrees with you, that they can't possibly be who they say they are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

3. It is very rare -- even on DCUM - for a parent to constantly refer to the child that she brought up from infancy as "My kid".
(The plural form "kids" is always fine, and of course it is fine to refer to somebody else's kid.)

I call my kid "my kid" on DCUM. And I'm not the parent with a kid at Pyle.

Meanwhile, what does it say about you, PP, that you go to so much trouble to explain to an anonymous person on the Internet, who disagrees with you, that they can't possibly be who they say they are?

Totally. And the funny thing is that I don't even disagree that past tests can be useful for pedagogical reasons. She just refuses to believe that my kid has gotten some tests back, and I've reviewed them, and that we've had good communication with our school about these things. And she (at least I think it's the same PP) criticizes the retake procedure, which I think is strange given that it basically accomplishes what I think she wants to accomplish with getting copies of county assessments to take home. The only other thing we seem to disagree on (ok, besides her belief that I am not a real parent) is that I'm not that bothered by not getting county assessments home -- because my kid had the opportunity to review and even retake her earlier assessments. Anyway, I've said all I want to say on his. It's clear that this person has an agenda that won't be deterred by facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But although you can't take county assessments home to keep, the students review hem at school with the teacher and parents are entitled to see them at school -- they just can't be kept at home.

You can't possibly think this is the same.

A parent can make a conference appointment for 5-10 minutes with each teacher for each separate test. The parent can not take notes. A student, especially a young middle school kid, is not going to be able to digest and identify why they got certain problems wrong for the brief time in class in when they can see the test. The kid is not going to memorize the problems and then work through them at home.

This is bad pedagogy, plain and simple.

Here's what I don't get about your opinion. If the tests mirror what was taught and they mirror the formatives that do come home (they are just bigger), why do they need that particular test to study? Besides, these tests that don't come home are the summatives, which occur at the end of a unit. So there is not going to be another test on the material.

You have a couple of assumptions in there that don't hold, IME.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That would be the policy I retyped above. Darn autocorrect. Also, my kid is 11, not 13. What can I say, she is capable of using big words and concepts.

I assume she is an 11 year old in at least 7th grade. (There hasn't been time for a 6th grader to have gone through the "completely transparent" retest procedure by mid-September.) So she does seem like quite the genius. It makes one wonder why she ever needed to retake a test in the first place. (It's just a joke -- don't shoot me!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That would be the policy I retyped above. Darn autocorrect. Also, my kid is 11, not 13. What can I say, she is capable of using big words and concepts.

I assume she is an 11 year old in at least 7th grade. (There hasn't been time for a 6th grader to have gone through the "completely transparent" retest procedure by mid-September.) So she does seem like quite the genius. It makes one wonder why she ever needed to retake a test in the first place. (It's just a joke -- don't shoot me!)

Untrue. There has been time to do this in 6th grade because there have been many school assessments already. And yes, one can be bright and still need to retest to work on showing all work -- and preventing careless mistakes. Also, I have high expectations and pushed her to seek a retake to learn early on what's expected on school tests so that those kinds of mistakes are not made again. And they have not. Surely you can't disagree with that strategy, seeing as you want to see past assessments for the same reason, yes?