Madison HS or the IB program at Marshall HS?

[Anonymous]

The Madison list was as of February whereas the Marshall list was as of June. With that in mind, the Madison list is definitely more impressive, as you'd expect given it's better reputation and test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Madison list was as of February whereas the Marshall list was as of June. With that in mind, the Madison list is definitely more impressive, as you'd expect given it's better reputation and test scores.

Heh. Keep repeating this. Maybe it will become true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions for Madison look more impressive than Marshall's, if that matters.

http://jmhshawktalk.com/2013/02/05/191/

http://www.rank-n-file.com/PDF/june-2013.pdf

They seem pretty much the same to me, especially given the higher percent of low income in Marshall.

They really do. If anything, I might even say Marshall's is marginally better. I wonder if whoever posted them didn't read through them first.

Marginally better in what way? More state school and more who ever heard of them schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions for Madison look more impressive than Marshall's, if that matters.

http://jmhshawktalk.com/2013/02/05/191/

http://www.rank-n-file.com/PDF/june-2013.pdf

They seem pretty much the same to me, especially given the higher percent of low income in Marshall.

They really do. If anything, I might even say Marshall's is marginally better. I wonder if whoever posted them didn't read through them first.

Marginally better in what way? More state school and more who ever heard of them schools?

You've never heard of Yale or Georgetown? They're nowhere to be found on Madison's list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Madison list was as of February whereas the Marshall list was as of June. With that in mind, the Madison list is definitely more impressive, as you'd expect given it's better reputation and test scores.

Did you miss this post earlier in the thread?

Anonymous wrote:
2013 SATs

TJ 2197
Langley 1837
Woodson 1792
McLean 1781
Oakton 1754
Madison 1753
Marshall 1714

Again, top six schools in county are all AP, not IB.


Total averages don't tell the whole picture.
If you look at the average sat scores by demographic, it gets really interesting. Here are the rankings by SAT scores of white students...

TJ 2215
Langley 1841
Woodson 1830
Marshall 1826
McLean 1803
Madison 1792
Oakton 1786

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read through the articles and comments above and there seems to be a lot of emphasis on whether or not your DC gets college credit for AP vs. IB. Who cares? What I want is a rigorous program that prepares to succeed in college. The independent research project alone was a big draw for us to the IB program. I have a friend who is a college professor who cannot believe students are graduating from well regarded high schools without having ever written a full length term paper.

In my senior year in high school all seniors were required to write a cross disciplinary paper across three classes - one of which has to be English as 1/3 of the grade was to be on the actual writing while the other subject matter teachers would cover the substance. I did not come across another similar assignment until graduate school.

I agree with you. It seems as though the argument on this board in favor of AP is that their "math and science kid" will do better in AP (meaning they aren't good at writing, and have no interest in furthering their skills), or that AP classes get more college credit.
FCPS is weak in teaching writing. I have a 4th grader at an independent school in DC who has already learned more about the mechanics of writing, and can literally write a better essay than my AAP center 8th grader. The work was just never given to allow my older child to improve writing skills.

If you are concerned that ib is weak in math and science(which is unfounded), Marshall is opening a full scale stem governors academy next year with guaranteed college credit.

[Anonymous]

The Madison list shows acceptances while the Marshall list only shows where people are heading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Madison list was as of February whereas the Marshall list was as of June. With that in mind, the Madison list is definitely more impressive, as you'd expect given it's better reputation and test scores.

Did you miss this post earlier in the thread?

Anonymous wrote:
2013 SATs

TJ 2197
Langley 1837
Woodson 1792
McLean 1781
Oakton 1754
Madison 1753
Marshall 1714

Again, top six schools in county are all AP, not IB.


Total averages don't tell the whole picture.
If you look at the average sat scores by demographic, it gets really interesting. Here are the rankings by SAT scores of white students...

TJ 2215
Langley 1841
Woodson 1830
Marshall 1826
McLean 1803
Madison 1792
Oakton 1786

Sure you don't want to include Asian students...

TJ 2244
Langley 1992
McLean 1898
Oakton 1870
Woodson 1862
Madison 1839
Marshall 1691

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Madison list shows acceptances while the Marshall list only shows where people are heading.

And as others have noted, acceptances can be the same kid more than once. either way, lists of students don't attend college, individuals do. the number of kids who go from either Madison or Marshall to good colleges has no bearing on where your kid would go. some can argue that too many kids going to good schools could actually hurt your child's chances since with the exception of TJ colleges seem to like to draw from a broad area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its [b]Euro-centric perspective [/b]and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

Last time I checked, Brazil, as mentioned in an earlier post was in South America. Another very popular IB history course focuses on the Middle East. So much for Eurocentric. Please get your facts straight before you start calling for the end of a program you don't understand. And lets remember that extra money, if it's that much was directed at schools that weren't doing that well. If you want your child to take advantage of IB, you can people place instead of whining about not getting your share of resources. As for that argument, don't even get me started. There are plenty of parts of the county that have much bigger gripes and at least IB and AP are made available to everyone as opposed to TJ or the so-called gifted programs in elementary and middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comment from one of the articles stood out:

"IB was imposed on [South Lakes] without community input in 1999. It serves a tiny fraction of the student body. It constrains SLHS' course offerings for the rest. In order to fill the courses which IB requires SLHS to offer, kids are involuntarily placed in IB classes despite parents' explicit requests to the contrary. Then the involuntarily placed kid can't change classes during the 1st Quarter. IB is more expensive than AP. IB test scores are not reported until July which is after colleges have completed freshman course placement. "Theory of Knowledge" is a watered down version of epistemology, a graduate school level philosophy course. It is sophistry to expect high school students to understand this material when they haven't taken an "introduction to philosophy" course. Quantum mechanics would be more appropriate for high school. Let IB be an academy program at Marshall to which kids can transfer from their base school. AP is more appropriate for the vast majority of SLHS kids."

Marshall doesn't want the IB program any more than the rest of the schools.

Patently false. In fact, I know a handful of teachers who people-placed so their kids could go to Marshall, specifically because they think it's a more rigorous program and better prep for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've read through the articles and comments above and there seems to be a lot of emphasis on whether or not your DC gets college credit for AP vs. IB. Who cares? What I want is a rigorous program that prepares to succeed in college. The independent research project alone was a big draw for us to the IB program. I have a friend who is a college professor who cannot believe students are graduating from well regarded high schools without having ever written a full length term paper.

In my senior year in high school all seniors were required to write a cross disciplinary paper across three classes - one of which has to be English as 1/3 of the grade was to be on the actual writing while the other subject matter teachers would cover the substance. I did not come across another similar assignment until graduate school.

I agree with you. It seems as though the argument on this board in favor of AP is that their "math and science kid" will do better in AP (meaning they aren't good at writing, and have no interest in furthering their skills), or that AP classes get more college credit.
FCPS is weak in teaching writing. I have a 4th grader at an independent school in DC who has already learned more about the mechanics of writing, and can literally write a better essay than my AAP center 8th grader. The work was just never given to allow my older child to improve writing skills.

If you are concerned that ib is weak in math and science(which is unfounded), Marshall is opening a full scale stem governors academy next year with guaranteed college credit.

One of the primary goals of the STEM academy is reducing the dropout rate at Marshall, more so than addressing weaknesses in the math/science IB curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its [b]Euro-centric perspective [/b]and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

Last time I checked, Brazil, as mentioned in an earlier post was in South America. Another very popular IB history course focuses on the Middle East. So much for Eurocentric. Please get your facts straight before you start calling for the end of a program you don't understand. And lets remember that extra money, if it's that much was directed at schools that weren't doing that well. If you want your child to take advantage of IB, you can people place instead of whining about not getting your share of resources. As for that argument, don't even get me started. There are plenty of parts of the county that have much bigger gripes and at least IB and AP are made available to everyone as opposed to TJ or the so-called gifted programs in elementary and middle school.

Incoherent babbling on your part. So what if IB is open enrollment? The percentage of students at those schools actually enrolled in IB diploma programs in FCPS is minuscule. The money could be much better spent on other programs that would benefit far more students and do more to improve struggling schools than IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason many prefer AP is because it is easier to be able to pick and choose AP courses than to take all IB courses for the diploma. However, a full IB diploma graduate is much more rare and desirable in the eyes of most colleges. The amount of credits awarded at some schools may be fewer, but they do recognize that it is the most rigorous program available.

My son in planning on majoring in pre-med, and most medical schools will not accept AP or IB credits in lieu of any of their undergrad requirements (4 years of college science, 2 years of calculus, etc). For that reason, he wants to do IB instead of AP.

Many AP courses are considered more demanding than their IB counterpart, and some have no IB equivalent. Colleges will not necessarily know when students are applying for admission whether an applicant will receive an IB diploma because that decision is not made until after the student graduates. If you really believe what you write here, you should make sure your child both obtains an IB diploma and then takes a gap year so the schools to which he's applying know he received an IB diploma.

Colleges aren't necessarily blown away by an IB diploma. They also look at SAT/ACT scores and the overall academic reputation of the secondary school. What does concern many parents is the perception that non-IB diploma candidates at IB schools are relegated to the bottom of the candidate pile in a way that isn't true for students who take a healthy, but not exclusive, selection of AP courses. Also, before you get too enamored of your own rhetoric, you should realize that the most prestigious universities may have pre-med programs, but not pre-med majors.

I have nothing against IB for those prefer its [b]Euro-centric perspective [/b]and comparatively rigid curriculum, but when the county is paying extra money for IB program coordinators and dues at schools where the percentage of students getting IB diplomas is ridiculously low, I think it requires closer examination. I'd rather see Falls Church HS getting renovated earlier, for example, rather than continuing to spend extra money on IB at each of Annandale, Edison, Lee and Stuart.

Last time I checked, Brazil, as mentioned in an earlier post was in South America. Another very popular IB history course focuses on the Middle East. So much for Eurocentric. Please get your facts straight before you start calling for the end of a program you don't understand. And lets remember that extra money, if it's that much was directed at schools that weren't doing that well. If you want your child to take advantage of IB, you can people place instead of whining about not getting your share of resources. As for that argument, don't even get me started. There are plenty of parts of the county that have much bigger gripes and at least IB and AP are made available to everyone as opposed to TJ or the so-called gifted programs in elementary and middle school.

IBO is based in Geneva and the tests are administered out of the UK. It is indisputably a Euro-centric organisation even if some of the course material examines other cultures. Your argument is akin to claiming the College Board isn't an American institution because students read Shakespeare or Sundiata in an AP English class.

[Anonymous]

You can slice and dice data to find something that makes Marshall look better than Madison, but when you look at the entire school Madison is usually ranked higher.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/virginia/rankings?schooltypepublic=y&schooltypemagnet=y&schooltypecharter=y