Madison HS or the IB program at Marshall HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Traffic in Tysons, however, is a big deal, and no one who is objective claims otherwise. You can avoid the center of Tysons if you live on the south side of Vienna, in which case you can take Cedar and Idylwood to Route 7 not far from Marshall. If you live in other parts of the Madison district, you either have to go through Tysons or go far out of your way to avoid it to get to Marshall. If there are later start times, Tysons traffic near Marshall will be more, not less, of a factor to consider.

OP, make a test run to Marshall around 7am midweek before you decide.

Can anyone provide more info on the STEM program in Marshall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic in Tysons, however, is a big deal, and no one who is objective claims otherwise. You can avoid the center of Tysons if you live on the south side of Vienna, in which case you can take Cedar and Idylwood to Route 7 not far from Marshall. If you live in other parts of the Madison district, you either have to go through Tysons or go far out of your way to avoid it to get to Marshall. If there are later start times, Tysons traffic near Marshall will be more, not less, of a factor to consider.

OP, make a test run to Marshall around 7am midweek before you decide.

Can anyone provide more info on the STEM program in Marshall?

We lived in Vienna and had kids at GCM, even though we lived closer to Madison. The 7 AM traffic to Marshall along Route 7 was not bad, but it was 5-6 miles away. The afternoon traffic was MUCH worse, and the morning and afternoon traffic would definitely be worse with a later starting time.

Not sure, but my impression is that the kids who take mostly Academy courses tend to be those who aren't college-bound and benefit from vocational training. Adding STEM courses to the current mix will give them additional practical options, certifications, etc.

[Anonymous]

The schools are rivals in Vienna, so of course they are putting each other down. The AP and IB programs are very different. Any parent who pupil places either way feels they are doing the best thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The schools are rivals in Vienna, so of course they are putting each other down. The AP and IB programs are very different. Any parent who pupil places either way feels they are doing the best thing.

Marshall may consider Madison its archrival, but Madison considers Oakton its biggest rival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison_High_School_(Fairfax_County,_Virginia)

Marshall is like the annoying younger brother who keeps picking fights with his older siblings to get Mom and Dad's attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are rivals in Vienna, so of course they are putting each other down. The AP and IB programs are very different. Any parent who pupil places either way feels they are doing the best thing.

Marshall may consider Madison its archrival, but Madison considers Oakton its biggest rival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison_High_School_(Fairfax_County,_Virginia)

Marshall is like the annoying younger brother who keeps picking fights with his older siblings to get Mom and Dad's attention.

It sounds like you don't really understand the area. Madison and Marshall are uniquely competitive because many of these kids have known each other since elementary school and middle school. That is not the case with Oakton where most of the students come from elementary and middle schools outside Vienna. In athletics, Oakton and Madison are in the same conference so they compete, but it doesn't have the same emotional punch as Marshall/Madison, which is why even with the change of athletic conferences (Marshall is moving to one for schools with smaller programs) Mad/Marshall will still regularly play each other.

As for the IB and AP programs, PP had it right that it depends on the student. When we first moved here 9 years ago, there was a lot of people placement to Madison for sports. But as the area has grown and changed and people have become more familiar the IB program, there has an equal if not sometimes greater movement in the other direction. In the Freshman and Senior classes at Marshall, I can name at least a dozen kids from our local and nearby neighborhoods who people-placed from Madison.

It's nice that parents have the option to choose what's best for their child and it's good that many do enough research to get beyond your dated stereotypes of the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are rivals in Vienna, so of course they are putting each other down. The AP and IB programs are very different. Any parent who pupil places either way feels they are doing the best thing.

Marshall may consider Madison its archrival, but Madison considers Oakton its biggest rival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison_High_School_(Fairfax_County,_Virginia)

Marshall is like the annoying younger brother who keeps picking fights with his older siblings to get Mom and Dad's attention.

It sounds like you don't really understand the area. Madison and Marshall are uniquely competitive because many of these kids have known each other since elementary school and middle school. That is not the case with Oakton where most of the students come from elementary and middle schools outside Vienna. In athletics, Oakton and Madison are in the same conference so they compete, but it doesn't have the same emotional punch as Marshall/Madison, which is why even with the change of athletic conferences (Marshall is moving to one for schools with smaller programs) Mad/Marshall will still regularly play each other.

As for the IB and AP programs, PP had it right that it depends on the student. When we first moved here 9 years ago, there was a lot of people placement to Madison for sports. But as the area has grown and changed and people have become more familiar the IB program, there has an equal if not sometimes greater movement in the other direction. In the Freshman and Senior classes at Marshall, I can name at least a dozen kids from our local and nearby neighborhoods who people-placed from Madison.

It's nice that parents have the option to choose what's best for their child and it's good that many do enough research to get beyond your dated stereotypes of the schools.

Hmmm. Oakton ES is one of several schools that splits between Madison and Oakton. Marshall Road is another. Look at a map. Oakton is much closer to Madison that Marshall is.

But thanks for proving my point. Marshall parents really want Marshall to be on the radar screen for Madison families, and for most of us it's just a high school over in Falls Church that we're glad our kids don't have to travel to the other side of the Beltway to attend. Our kids view Oakton, not Marshall, as the big rival. They assume they'll beat Marshall every year, and they usually do.

[Anonymous]

I graduated from Madison in 1996. Marshall was definitely our rival. Nobody even thought twice about Oakton back then. It was a school that you just never heard about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are rivals in Vienna, so of course they are putting each other down. The AP and IB programs are very different. Any parent who pupil places either way feels they are doing the best thing.

Marshall may consider Madison its archrival, but Madison considers Oakton its biggest rival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison_High_School_(Fairfax_County,_Virginia)

Marshall is like the annoying younger brother who keeps picking fights with his older siblings to get Mom and Dad's attention.

It sounds like you don't really understand the area. Madison and Marshall are uniquely competitive because many of these kids have known each other since elementary school and middle school. That is not the case with Oakton where most of the students come from elementary and middle schools outside Vienna. In athletics, Oakton and Madison are in the same conference so they compete, but it doesn't have the same emotional punch as Marshall/Madison, which is why even with the change of athletic conferences (Marshall is moving to one for schools with smaller programs) Mad/Marshall will still regularly play each other.

As for the IB and AP programs, PP had it right that it depends on the student. When we first moved here 9 years ago, there was a lot of people placement to Madison for sports. But as the area has grown and changed and people have become more familiar the IB program, there has an equal if not sometimes greater movement in the other direction. In the Freshman and Senior classes at Marshall, I can name at least a dozen kids from our local and nearby neighborhoods who people-placed from Madison.

It's nice that parents have the option to choose what's best for their child and it's good that many do enough research to get beyond your dated stereotypes of the schools.

Hmmm. Oakton ES is one of several schools that splits between Madison and Oakton. Marshall Road is another. Look at a map. Oakton is much closer to Madison that Marshall is.

But thanks for proving my point. Marshall parents really want Marshall to be on the radar screen for Madison families, and for most of us it's just a high school over in Falls Church that we're glad our kids don't have to travel to the other side of the Beltway to attend. Our kids view Oakton, not Marshall, as the big rival. They assume they'll beat Marshall every year, and they usually do.

Nice. Glad my kids won't go to Madison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from Madison in 1996. Marshall was definitely our rival. Nobody even thought twice about Oakton back then. It was a school that you just never heard about.

That was almost 20 years ago. Oakton is less than half the distance from Madison as Marshall. The Madison-Oakton rivalry intensified as Marshall teams became increasingly less competitive.

[Anonymous]

Hmmm. Oakton ES is one of several schools that splits between Madison and Oakton. Marshall Road is another. Look at a map. Oakton is much closer to Madison that Marshall is.

But thanks for proving my point. Marshall parents really want Marshall to be on the radar screen for Madison families, and for most of us it's just a high school over in Falls Church that we're glad our kids don't have to travel to the other side of the Beltway to attend. Our kids view Oakton, not Marshall, as the big rival. They assume they'll beat Marshall every year, and they usually do.

In your imaginary world, perhaps. An increasing number of Marshall parents I know wish the school didn't allow so many people placements from Madison so the Marshall could concentrate on the growing number of families within its own boundaries.

You've named two elementary schools, one of them in Oakton, with limited to no exposure to other Vienna schools. On the other hand, Wolftrap and Westbriar Elementary in Vienna send kids to both Vienna high schools, as does Louise Archer. Freedom Hill Elementary kids attend middle school at Kilmer with kids from both Wolftrap and Westbriar who eventually go to Madison, not Marshall. Stenwood Elementary sends kids to Thoreau Middle where they mingle with future Madison kids from Vienna Elementary and Cunningham Park, before moving on to Marshall for high school.

Again, your Madison kids may view Oakton as their big rival from an athletic standpoint... And Oakton does seem to beat you regularly in football and even baseball where your questionable recruiting of athletes from outside Vienna (and VA) doesn't always guarantee a superior team. That said, I think OP was asking about the choice between academic programs -- IB and AP, so sort of irrelevant.

Btw, I don't know how you drive to Marshall, but most of us manage to get to it without traveling to the other side of the Beltway. I'm not sure what that even means. The last time I checked all of Vienna was considered outside the Beltway. Maybe you should check your map again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are rivals in Vienna, so of course they are putting each other down. The AP and IB programs are very different. Any parent who pupil places either way feels they are doing the best thing.

Marshall may consider Madison its archrival, but Madison considers Oakton its biggest rival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison_High_School_(Fairfax_County,_Virginia)

Marshall is like the annoying younger brother who keeps picking fights with his older siblings to get Mom and Dad's attention.

It sounds like you don't really understand the area. Madison and Marshall are uniquely competitive because many of these kids have known each other since elementary school and middle school. That is not the case with Oakton where most of the students come from elementary and middle schools outside Vienna. In athletics, Oakton and Madison are in the same conference so they compete, but it doesn't have the same emotional punch as Marshall/Madison, which is why even with the change of athletic conferences (Marshall is moving to one for schools with smaller programs) Mad/Marshall will still regularly play each other.

As for the IB and AP programs, PP had it right that it depends on the student. When we first moved here 9 years ago, there was a lot of people placement to Madison for sports. But as the area has grown and changed and people have become more familiar the IB program, there has an equal if not sometimes greater movement in the other direction. In the Freshman and Senior classes at Marshall, I can name at least a dozen kids from our local and nearby neighborhoods who people-placed from Madison.

It's nice that parents have the option to choose what's best for their child and it's good that many do enough research to get beyond your dated stereotypes of the schools.

Hmmm. Oakton ES is one of several schools that splits between Madison and Oakton. Marshall Road is another. Look at a map. Oakton is much closer to Madison that Marshall is.

But thanks for proving my point. Marshall parents really want Marshall to be on the radar screen for Madison families, and for most of us it's just a high school over in Falls Church that we're glad our kids don't have to travel to the other side of the Beltway to attend. Our kids view Oakton, not Marshall, as the big rival. They assume they'll beat Marshall every year, and they usually do.

Nice. Glad my kids won't go to Madison.

Sorry if the truth hurts. Marshall has a few boosters on DCUM who hype the crap out of the place, but IRL no one who can go to Madison pays much attention to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic in Tysons, however, is a big deal, and no one who is objective claims otherwise. You can avoid the center of Tysons if you live on the south side of Vienna, in which case you can take Cedar and Idylwood to Route 7 not far from Marshall. If you live in other parts of the Madison district, you either have to go through Tysons or go far out of your way to avoid it to get to Marshall. If there are later start times, Tysons traffic near Marshall will be more, not less, of a factor to consider.

OP, make a test run to Marshall around 7am midweek before you decide.

Can anyone provide more info on the STEM program in Marshall?

We lived in Vienna and had kids at GCM, even though we lived closer to Madison. The 7 AM traffic to Marshall along Route 7 was not bad, but it was 5-6 miles away. The afternoon traffic was MUCH worse, and the morning and afternoon traffic would definitely be worse with a later starting time.

Not sure, but my impression is that the kids who take mostly Academy courses tend to be those who aren't college-bound and benefit from vocational training. Adding STEM courses to the current mix will give them additional practical options, certifications, etc.

Incorrect , the stem courses are considered college level so in theory you could take some and go straight into the workforce but that isn't the specific intent. It is intended to give motivated students hands on and real world experience in specific academic interests not covered in depth during high school.

I remember going to Fairfax city in the mid to late 90s and only being offered one crappy 80s programming class that did nothing for me. To enrich my learning I went outside of the school and studied industry certification exams and worked on things myself. I have multiple master's in engineering and would've been thrilled to take stem courses in high school.

From the marshal academy website:
To provide a student centered learning environment that emphasizes hands-on learning, critical thinking, collaboration, college preparation, and career readiness. We provide performance-based assessments established on emerging industry.

http://www.fcps.edu/MarshallAcademy/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Traffic in Tysons, however, is a big deal, and no one who is objective claims otherwise. You can avoid the center of Tysons if you live on the south side of Vienna, in which case you can take Cedar and Idylwood to Route 7 not far from Marshall. If you live in other parts of the Madison district, you either have to go through Tysons or go far out of your way to avoid it to get to Marshall. If there are later start times, Tysons traffic near Marshall will be more, not less, of a factor to consider.

OP, make a test run to Marshall around 7am midweek before you decide.

Can anyone provide more info on the STEM program in Marshall?

We lived in Vienna and had kids at GCM, even though we lived closer to Madison. The 7 AM traffic to Marshall along Route 7 was not bad, but it was 5-6 miles away. The afternoon traffic was MUCH worse, and the morning and afternoon traffic would definitely be worse with a later starting time.

Not sure, but my impression is that the kids who take mostly Academy courses tend to be those who aren't college-bound and benefit from vocational training. Adding STEM courses to the current mix will give them additional practical options, certifications, etc.

Incorrect , the stem courses are considered college level so in theory you could take some and go straight into the workforce but that isn't the specific intent. It is intended to give motivated students hands on and real world experience in specific academic interests not covered in depth during high school.

I remember going to Fairfax city in the mid to late 90s and only being offered one crappy 80s programming class that did nothing for me. To enrich my learning I went outside of the school and studied industry certification exams and worked on things myself. I have multiple master's in engineering and would've been thrilled to take stem courses in high school.

From the marshal academy website:
To provide a student centered learning environment that emphasizes hands-on learning, critical thinking, collaboration, college preparation, and career readiness. We provide performance-based assessments established on emerging industry.

http://www.fcps.edu/MarshallAcademy/

Fairfax county not city, darn auto complete

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Hmmm. Oakton ES is one of several schools that splits between Madison and Oakton. Marshall Road is another. Look at a map. Oakton is much closer to Madison that Marshall is.

But thanks for proving my point. Marshall parents really want Marshall to be on the radar screen for Madison families, and for most of us it's just a high school over in Falls Church that we're glad our kids don't have to travel to the other side of the Beltway to attend. Our kids view Oakton, not Marshall, as the big rival. They assume they'll beat Marshall every year, and they usually do.

In your imaginary world, perhaps. An increasing number of Marshall parents I know wish the school didn't allow so many people placements from Madison so the Marshall could concentrate on the growing number of families within its own boundaries.

You've named two elementary schools, one of them in Oakton, with limited to no exposure to other Vienna schools. On the other hand, Wolftrap and Westbriar Elementary in Vienna send kids to both Vienna high schools, as does Louise Archer. Freedom Hill Elementary kids attend middle school at Kilmer with kids from both Wolftrap and Westbriar who eventually go to Madison, not Marshall. Stenwood Elementary sends kids to Thoreau Middle where they mingle with future Madison kids from Vienna Elementary and Cunningham Park, before moving on to Marshall for high school.

Again, your Madison kids may view Oakton as their big rival from an athletic standpoint... And Oakton does seem to beat you regularly in football and even baseball where your questionable recruiting of athletes from outside Vienna (and VA) doesn't always guarantee a superior team. That said, I think OP was asking about the choice between academic programs -- IB and AP, so sort of irrelevant.

Btw, I don't know how you drive to Marshall, but most of us manage to get to it without traveling to the other side of the Beltway. I'm not sure what that even means. The last time I checked all of Vienna was considered outside the Beltway. Maybe you should check your map again.

There are only two Vienna high schools, Madison and Oakton. They are both outside the Beltway. Marshall isn't a Vienna school. It's over in Falls Church, and many Vienna parents whose kids have to cross the Beltway to get to Marshall will tell you privately they wish their neighborhoods were also zoned for Madison, because it's closer, has AP not IB, and always has better teams.

No point responding to the silly comments about the "recruiting" of athletes. If Marshall had stronger programs, it wouldn't lose most of its top athletes to other schools. The 32 state championships that Madison has racked up over the years compares favorably to any school in the state, but you can probably count Marshall's team championships on one hand. That's not a tradition that attracts families who care about both academics and sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are rivals in Vienna, so of course they are putting each other down. The AP and IB programs are very different. Any parent who pupil places either way feels they are doing the best thing.

Marshall may consider Madison its archrival, but Madison considers Oakton its biggest rival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Madison_High_School_(Fairfax_County,_Virginia)

Marshall is like the annoying younger brother who keeps picking fights with his older siblings to get Mom and Dad's attention.

It sounds like you don't really understand the area. Madison and Marshall are uniquely competitive because many of these kids have known each other since elementary school and middle school. That is not the case with Oakton where most of the students come from elementary and middle schools outside Vienna. In athletics, Oakton and Madison are in the same conference so they compete, but it doesn't have the same emotional punch as Marshall/Madison, which is why even with the change of athletic conferences (Marshall is moving to one for schools with smaller programs) Mad/Marshall will still regularly play each other.

As for the IB and AP programs, PP had it right that it depends on the student. When we first moved here 9 years ago, there was a lot of people placement to Madison for sports. But as the area has grown and changed and people have become more familiar the IB program, there has an equal if not sometimes greater movement in the other direction. In the Freshman and Senior classes at Marshall, I can name at least a dozen kids from our local and nearby neighborhoods who people-placed from Madison.

It's nice that parents have the option to choose what's best for their child and it's good that many do enough research to get beyond your dated stereotypes of the schools.

Hmmm. Oakton ES is one of several schools that splits between Madison and Oakton. Marshall Road is another. Look at a map. Oakton is much closer to Madison that Marshall is.

But thanks for proving my point. Marshall parents really want Marshall to be on the radar screen for Madison families, and for most of us it's just a high school over in Falls Church that we're glad our kids don't have to travel to the other side of the Beltway to attend. Our kids view Oakton, not Marshall, as the big rival. They assume they'll beat Marshall every year, and they usually do.

Nice. Glad my kids won't go to Madison.

Sorry if the truth hurts. Marshall has a few boosters on DCUM who hype the crap out of the place, but IRL no one who can go to Madison pays much attention to it.

You can disagree without being nasty, but apparently, you haven't learned that. I actually think Vienna is really nice but live in Falls Church because the commute is much better. I'm happy with my family's choice of Marshall so I don't "pay much attention" to Madison. The schools have very similar demographics and test scores (yes, I know Madison's are slightly higher). It's not worth getting worked up about the difference.