Why racial segregation is unacceptable but socioeconomic segregation is ok in private schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

As it is now.

Yes, but worse. The wealthy public school kids will flee - what we are already seeing in TX - and the non-legacy kids will have to fight with those legacy children whose parents went to private but choose the send their kids public. Because the public schools will retain the kids whose parents chose/couldnt logistically/ or don’t care to apply out. Plus if your kid is in a school where the teachers aren’t fully engaged or know your child personally (because there’s 35 of them) then teacher recommendations will not equal those at better schools all else being equal. Family recommendations from within the community also carry weight - not available for underprivileged or MC people.

Finally we get to the real reason for crappy schools. That only took 10 pages. I still for the life of me cannot understand how someone unemployed on welfare can’t be engaged in their own child’s education. They have the time. It’s not like they’re working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the same troll who starts threads on the injustices of private school under the guise of being "new to the area" and just asking a loaded question. Then when anyone disagrees she responds with sarcasm. Try to ignore her

Could be a troll, but the question remains valid. Why do schools accept socioeconomic segregation. Is that consistent with the goals of social justice and inclusion that they preach? Maybe, but it doesn’t look so.

It's not a smart question. Most private schools don't have a goal of social justice and inclusion, they have a goal of high quality academic education in a low conflict environment. There is no economic model that would work for this goal with a broad SES community, they need way too much tuition money to make it work. Private entities, whether schools or stores or clubs, are there to provide a good or service for a fee and those who can't pay are rarely included. This is how capitalism works. We're also not giving away Porches in a lottery, people have to pay for them.

But still there is the consensus to avoid racial segregation in expensive schools with the goal of inclusiveness (most schools publish their numbers). Why not having the same goal with socioeconomic inclusion. Are poor people more violent and ignorant ? That’s how people thought about non-white people 50 years ago. I think there are merits in broadening the concept of diversity, even for expensive schools.

Why would you discriminate against anyone who can pay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the same troll who starts threads on the injustices of private school under the guise of being "new to the area" and just asking a loaded question. Then when anyone disagrees she responds with sarcasm. Try to ignore her

Could be a troll, but the question remains valid. Why do schools accept socioeconomic segregation. Is that consistent with the goals of social justice and inclusion that they preach? Maybe, but it doesn’t look so.

It's not a smart question. Most private schools don't have a goal of social justice and inclusion, they have a goal of high quality academic education in a low conflict environment. There is no economic model that would work for this goal with a broad SES community, they need way too much tuition money to make it work. Private entities, whether schools or stores or clubs, are there to provide a good or service for a fee and those who can't pay are rarely included. This is how capitalism works. We're also not giving away Porches in a lottery, people have to pay for them.

But still there is the consensus to avoid racial segregation in expensive schools with the goal of inclusiveness (most schools publish their numbers). Why not having the same goal with socioeconomic inclusion. Are poor people more violent and ignorant ? That’s how people thought about non-white people 50 years ago. I think there are merits in broadening the concept of diversity, even for expensive schools.

No, there is no consensus on any diversity targets for private schools. You think there are merits for your arguments and you might be able to make them a reality if you gave several million dollars to a school, but without the additional resources your ideas don't work. And the quality of the education, which costs money, will always be more important than any diversity goals.

Tell me a prestigious school in dc and I will tell you what do they say about racial diversity and their metrics. You might not care, which is fine, but schools do advertise their diversity.

Newsflash rich minorities like being around other rich minorities. They still don’t want to mingle with the poor, including poor whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are dumb as hell. You think that the private school gets 60k per pupil?

So silly! And at Holton it’ll cost only 20k a year for a student. It costs a public school a hundred k a year per student. So with vouchers you’d get money back!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, people do not like talking about this!

Private school is inherently elitist no matter the metric used for selection. We are more comfortable with elitism along economic lines than race. A lot of what you are buying with a private school education is cultural exclusivity and isn't really about academics and that has always been the case, though of course within the private school community, people will also compete for academic superiority (it is not enough for a hierarchy to exist between the wealthy and the poor, there must also be hierarchies among the wealthy, and academics are one though never the most important one).

A private school that was selective based purely on academics, with scholarships for those who could not afford it, is interesting in theory but ignores the fact that being able to choose your kids' peers' parents is one of the things people like most about private.

Regis in NYC is real, not a theory. Wouldn’t it be interesting if there was such a school in DC? Let’s talk social justice and Quaker values! An STA where every boy applies for 9th grade and it’s free!

It’s called BASIS

Maybe Basis in DC. Everyone pays in at Basis in McLean and there isn’t even any financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

Maybe it's time for the rich people in publics to open their checkbooks and donate to their public schools the way private school parents do. There are quite a few of them according to PPs in here. Write those checks, and be the change. Don't they believe in their school enough to support it and help cover the needs?

Yeah every April 15th

So does everyone else. But thanks for admitting you’re cheap.

[Anonymous]

Yes more private schools are by nature elitist and attract elitist families. I didn’t like it, l switched my kid to public for middle school. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages. That being said l’m zoned for “good” public schools and that’s part of the reason l bought this house, so I’m also elitist, just less so than most of the parents at the former private schools.

[Anonymous]

Because poor people smell like Burger King.

[Anonymous]

This is the main reason we chose public in our (admittedly decent) neighborhood school. I don’t want my kids to only be around private school kids and families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the main reason we chose public in our (admittedly decent) neighborhood school. I don’t want my kids to only be around private school kids and families.

Too bad the whiners in here don't share your attitude. Live and let live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

As it is now.

Yes, but worse. The wealthy public school kids will flee - what we are already seeing in TX - and the non-legacy kids will have to fight with those legacy children whose parents went to private but choose the send their kids public. Because the public schools will retain the kids whose parents chose/couldnt logistically/ or don’t care to apply out. Plus if your kid is in a school where the teachers aren’t fully engaged or know your child personally (because there’s 35 of them) then teacher recommendations will not equal those at better schools all else being equal. Family recommendations from within the community also carry weight - not available for underprivileged or MC people.

Finally we get to the real reason for crappy schools. That only took 10 pages. I still for the life of me cannot understand how someone unemployed on welfare can’t be engaged in their own child’s education. They have the time. It’s not like they’re working.

Yeaaahhh. This poster right here is why so many of us have a problem with private schools. PP, your take is about what I’d expect from a completely sheltered 5 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only way for private schools to be more economically diverse in this area to offer school vouchers so that any kid can go to any school they want and are capable of getting in. The vouchers would have to be enough to at least the tuition amount of the lowest private school. This program would force public schools to shape up their curriculum and quality if they want to stay open. Open competition is always a good thing.

Texas is starting this program next year and you can already see the MC families gaming the system to get their kids priority. Private school applications at my kids’ school was up 270% this year. Really it is taking money away from the public schools and sponsoring MC families to go to private school. My kid was already in private with ADHD - we have parents pay tuition so this is just a discount for already wealthy people. The politicians know this.

It's not taking money away, the money follows the kids. If the MC kid isn't there, the school doesn't get the money. The school that kid goes to gets instead. What's the problem?

Let me explain - I’ll make the math easy.

Say a public school gets 10k for a 10 kid class now. With the vouchers 5 of those public school kids go to private school and augment that 2x. The public school now has 5k and the private (now with 10k extra) can raise their tuition 7%, plus they still have large endowments to buy extras that the public school cannot afford. The private school kids get much much more, while the public schools suffer more. It’s really very simple.

It will pass legislation because people like me want the discount and people like you think you can get a better education. It’s already got my vote and my kids would be attending private anyway. So my tax money earmarked for a public school I don’t use is now going to subsidize my kid instead of yours.

Forgot to mention - those private schools that will accept he influx of ex-public kids will just get harder to get into, so they’ll rely more on legacy and recommendations - so if you’re not already upper class the door will shut tight and be sealed.

As it is now.

Yes, but worse. The wealthy public school kids will flee - what we are already seeing in TX - and the non-legacy kids will have to fight with those legacy children whose parents went to private but choose the send their kids public. Because the public schools will retain the kids whose parents chose/couldnt logistically/ or don’t care to apply out. Plus if your kid is in a school where the teachers aren’t fully engaged or know your child personally (because there’s 35 of them) then teacher recommendations will not equal those at better schools all else being equal. Family recommendations from within the community also carry weight - not available for underprivileged or MC people.

Finally we get to the real reason for crappy schools. That only took 10 pages. I still for the life of me cannot understand how someone unemployed on welfare can’t be engaged in their own child’s education. They have the time. It’s not like they’re working.

Yeaaahhh. This poster right here is why so many of us have a problem with private schools. PP, your take is about what I’d expect from a completely sheltered 5 year old.

You get to have your problem with private schools, but realize nobody cares about your "problem" and will keep doing what they want to do.

[Anonymous]

It seems that parents in private schools don’t want their kids to study in classrooms “polluted” by lower income kids, regardless of their talent. Thats ok, their loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems that parents in private schools don’t want their kids to study in classrooms “polluted” by lower income kids, regardless of their talent. Thats ok, their loss.

You can choose to take it personally or recognize that there are multiple factors at play. This should be obvious. I don’t know any public school parents who never have complaints about their own school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am new to dc and I noticed the stark difference between the two types of segregation. Private schools are happy if they are racially diverse, but not so happy to be diverse in terms of socioeconomic groups. If find this attitude a bit schizophrenic. Do you think this is ok?

Because private schools are full of hypocrite latte socialist parents and board members who are all about virtue signaling to make themselves look good. Racial diversity is much easier to accomplish than socio economic diversity. There are minorities with money out there and the school is happy to have them and feature their kids on the cover of their brochures. That's little work with an outcome you can showcase easily. Much much harder to achieve socio economic diversity, and it's a lot harder to showcase on a brochure. That's a lot of work (fundraising) with an outcome you can't easily showcase. No one wants to work very hard for that.
That's why I never bought into this whole DEI stuff. You want real diversity? Get the rich kids to interact with the poor inner city kids. THAT's true diversity. Everything other than that is lip service.