Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
School social worker should not be transporting the child to an abortion clinic. I agree that the reporting is sketchy. But, if true, the school social worker had options. The Health Department has social workers.
The picture included in the reporting was the Falls Church Health Clinic--which does exist and does perform abortions.
Because it comes from a right wing outlet does not mean it is false.
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
I'm sorry, but you are truly splitting hairs here. I know exactly what it says, and the implication is that best practices would involve notifying the parents - and NOT influencing the student in any direction. And of course, the information we currently have is not clear; which is why a thorough investigation needs to be done.
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
DP. Your "maybe it will / maybe it won't" posts are tiresome. You're stating the obvious. Also - "ultra right wing"?? Spare us all. We all deserve to know exactly what happened here, regardless of politics.
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
School social worker should not be transporting the child to an abortion clinic. I agree that the reporting is sketchy. But, if true, the school social worker had options. The Health Department has social workers.
The picture included in the reporting was the Falls Church Health Clinic--which does exist and does perform abortions.
Because it comes from a right wing outlet does not mean it is false.
Very curious that the story is being broken by a right wing podcaster from Ohio. The whistle-blower went first to the principal, but he covered it up, then she went to FCPS central offices, but they covered it up, what are the odds that her next contact was some guy in Ohio? Did she go to the Washington Post or local TV news stations? Did they also participate in the cover up?
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
School social worker should not be transporting the child to an abortion clinic. I agree that the reporting is sketchy. But, if true, the school social worker had options. The Health Department has social workers.
The picture included in the reporting was the Falls Church Health Clinic--which does exist and does perform abortions.
Because it comes from a right wing outlet does not mean it is false.
Very curious that the story is being broken by a right wing podcaster from Ohio. The whistle-blower went first to the principal, but he covered it up, then she went to FCPS central offices, but they covered it up, what are the odds that her next contact was some guy in Ohio? Did she go to the Washington Post or local TV news stations? Did they also participate in the cover up?
What did the whistle blower think the principal could do?
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
School social worker should not be transporting the child to an abortion clinic. I agree that the reporting is sketchy. But, if true, the school social worker had options. The Health Department has social workers.
The picture included in the reporting was the Falls Church Health Clinic--which does exist and does perform abortions.
Because it comes from a right wing outlet does not mean it is false.
Very curious that the story is being broken by a right wing podcaster from Ohio. The whistle-blower went first to the principal, but he covered it up, then she went to FCPS central offices, but they covered it up, what are the odds that her next contact was some guy in Ohio? Did she go to the Washington Post or local TV news stations? Did they also participate in the cover up?
What did the whistle blower think the principal could do?
Anonymous wrote:I am still not clear exactly what it is alleged that these parents did.
There is a requirement to tell parents or legal guardians at least 24 hours before a minor has an abortion, and to get their consent notarized. But that seems to be the responsibility of the abortion provider. Of course, if the FCPS employee lied about the students' age, or counseled the student to lie, or helped them forge consent, or presented themselves as the parent, then that's probably illegal.
If the social worker paid with school funds, that's also illegal.
Transporting students anywhere is likely a violation of school policy, but not necessarily illegal.
But I am pretty sure that a student talking about abortion, has a right to confidentiality in a therapeutic relationship like that between social worker and her client. The social worker needs to break confidentiality and call CPS if there is evidence of abuse, and if they didn't that's a violation of mandated reporting laws. But otherwise, I'm not sure the social worker has the obligation to tell the parents, and their professional ethics may not allow them to tell the parents. The abortion provider was the one to tell the parents, although again, if the social worker deceived the provider about the students' age, or posed as parent, then that's a problem again.
I think more information needs to come out to know exactly which, if any, laws were broken, and by who.
Again. There are ways around it. But, the school should not have been the way. It should have been CPS.
If the social worker had reason to believe that the girl had been abused by a family member or school staff, or was at risk for abuse, then yes. But otherwise no. A 17 year old is legally able to consent to sex, and even if the sex was not consensual, that is a matter for the police not CPS barring parent/teacher involvement.
Referring a teenager over the age of consent who is asking for an abortion to a clinic that has professionals on staff with experience guiding young people through either telling their parents or getting judicial approval seems like an appropriate way to handle a situation.
Coercing a kid who doesn’t want an abortion, paying for the abortion with school funds, helping the kid misrepresent their age or whatever they did to get around parental notification — all those things are wrong. But it is not yet clear if those things happened.
No. The school should turn it over to CPS. It is not the job of the school system.
You keep posting over and over about referring to CPS. Child Protective Services has no role to play in a 17 year old's pregnancy. There is nothing to report unless the 17 year old reports abuse. 17 is consenting age.
This is yet another political setup.
DP. CPS might not be the appropriate agency, but here is FCPS regulations on counseling pregnant students. As you can see, they make it crystal clear that in NO WAY should FCPS staff have any influence over a student's decision and in NO WAY should any of this be kept from the parents:
III. GUIDELINES
School counselors, school social workers, school psychologists, and other staff members
shall be aware and follow the guidelines below regarding counseling pregnant students and
distributing literature about pregnancy, birth control, venereal disease, and private and public
agencies providing services for pregnant students.
A. Every effort shall be made to encourage and support students suspecting pregnancy to
discuss their concern with their parents or guardians. Offers may be made to meet jointly
with the parents or guardians and the student at school. In no case shall personnel commit
themselves to maintain such information confidentially, keeping it from parents, guardians,
or appropriate school authorities. B. If a student requests counseling services or is considered to be in need of such services,
school staff members should refer the student to the public health nurse or Fairfax County
Department of Health and avoid influencing the student regarding the pregnancy.
That doesn't say what you think it says. It says that in no way should the staff commit to (promise) not telling the parents. That the possibility of telling parents should remain open. That isn't the same as saying they need to tell the parents. It also says that while they should offer to help the students tell parents, they can also refer to outside counseling through the Health Department.
Referring the students to an organization that provides this counseling, as well as health services once the student has decided and the parental notification requirement has been met, may well have been appropriate. At this point we don't know. We don't know if the students requested an abortion, and then one changed their mind, or if the staff member pushed the idea. We don't know if the clinic was run by the Health Department. We don't know if the clinic failed to notified parents because they were lied to about student age or something similar, or if they made that mistake on their own. We don't know who paid.
It's quite possible that the social worker or the principal crossed a line. It's quite possible that they broke the law. But the information we have is not clear.
The school social worker and the principal should have NO involvement other than to turn it over to the Health Dept. This is not the school's job. If the girl wants help to tell her parents, I think that is okay. But, no trips to clinic. If the parents are involved, that is their job. If the parents are not involved, let the Health Department deal with it.
One of the reports mentioned that an uncle was the legal guardian. There could be a large can of worms there, too. Even more reason that it should have been the Health Department and not the school. This child could have been an unaccompanied minor and perhaps even trafficked. This is far beyond work the school should be involved in doing.
The Health Department runs clinics. Referring someone to the health department for counseling, means referring them to a clinic as that is where counseling occurs. The name that's reported in the article that I read seems to be a clinic that doesn't exist, so it could well have been a Health Department Clinic.
Or not. It's quite possible that what you imagine happening, what the ultra right wing publications that broke this story want you to imagine happened. It's also possible that something entirely different happened. Maybe at some point the truth will be untangled. Maybe it won't.
School social worker should not be transporting the child to an abortion clinic. I agree that the reporting is sketchy. But, if true, the school social worker had options. The Health Department has social workers.
The picture included in the reporting was the Falls Church Health Clinic--which does exist and does perform abortions.
Because it comes from a right wing outlet does not mean it is false.
Very curious that the story is being broken by a right wing podcaster from Ohio. The whistle-blower went first to the principal, but he covered it up, then she went to FCPS central offices, but they covered it up, what are the odds that her next contact was some guy in Ohio? Did she go to the Washington Post or local TV news stations? Did they also participate in the cover up?
What did the whistle blower think the principal could do?
Blow a bigger whistle?
Seriously! Good for that whistle blower and shame on anyone who chose to bury / not report this.
Anonymous wrote:"Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) tells 7News Reporter Nick Minock that they are launching an investigation into claims that school staff arranged abortions for students and didn’t tell their parents."
There needs to be more done than the school system investigating itself. This is wild.
Anonymous wrote:"Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) tells 7News Reporter Nick Minock that they are launching an investigation into claims that school staff arranged abortions for students and didn’t tell their parents."
There needs to be more done than the school system investigating itself. This is wild.
Anonymous wrote:So what, the staff member just helped them make an appointment somewhere? Unless they were wielding a coat hanger or forging documents, this seems like a nothing burger. The healthcare providers are the ones bound by whatever the law on parental disclosure is.
It is laughable to pretend you wouldn't be furious if a staff member "just helped" your daughter make an appointment for an abortion - regardless of your views on abortion. Stop the deliberately obtuse act.
I'd be wondering how I had failed as a parent that my daughter felt she couldn't come to me. Not furious at the person who helped her.
Please. Of course you'd be furious. Otherwise, how about you give us your daughter's information, and we'll handle her medical appointments.
Not all of us believe our daughters are breedslaves for our husbands.
Anonymous wrote:"Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) tells 7News Reporter Nick Minock that they are launching an investigation into claims that school staff arranged abortions for students and didn’t tell their parents."
There needs to be more done than the school system investigating itself. This is wild.
Anonymous wrote:"Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) tells 7News Reporter Nick Minock that they are launching an investigation into claims that school staff arranged abortions for students and didn’t tell their parents."
There needs to be more done than the school system investigating itself. This is wild.
Report to CPS. Then, removal of student can be removed from home and medical procedures can take place as appropriate. A teacher is not a parent or CPS.
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