Maybe it would be a good thing if Trump limited international students at t100 schools?

[Anonymous]

I am absolutely all for gifted international students coming to the US for college. I think it’s a positive all around. And I get how some low endowment schools need the income of full pay international students to make things work.

But the NY Times had an article today listing the schools with the most international students. I think it’s nuts that more than 30 percent of students at Columbia, Chicago, CMU, Hopkins, and Northeastern are international. I get it for CalTech, but that’s such a specialized school. We definitely have a big enough talent pool of students - including full pay students - to fill those classes at those schools. So I’m perplexed why schools like Columbia and Northeastern are choosing to be so heavily international

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am absolutely all for gifted international students coming to the US for college. I think it’s a positive all around. And I get how some low endowment schools need the income of full pay international students to make things work.

But the NY Times had an article today listing the schools with the most international students. I think it’s nuts that more than 30 percent of students at Columbia, Chicago, CMU, Hopkins, and Northeastern are international. I get it for CalTech, but that’s such a specialized school. We definitely have a big enough talent pool of students - including full pay students - to fill those classes at those schools. So I’m perplexed why schools like Columbia and Northeastern are choosing to be so heavily international

Let me introduce you to the concept known as "money". Those schools have a heavy STEM presence. China and India have an endless supply of students who could go toe to toe with top US students. So it is an easy win, win, win for all. The college gets whip-smart students, more money, and the student gets a chance to work in the US or bring that degree back home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am absolutely all for gifted international students coming to the US for college. I think it’s a positive all around. And I get how some low endowment schools need the income of full pay international students to make things work.

But the NY Times had an article today listing the schools with the most international students. I think it’s nuts that more than 30 percent of students at Columbia, Chicago, CMU, Hopkins, and Northeastern are international. I get it for CalTech, but that’s such a specialized school. We definitely have a big enough talent pool of students - including full pay students - to fill those classes at those schools. So I’m perplexed why schools like Columbia and Northeastern are choosing to be so heavily international

Instead of scolding and wanting to force change in these institutions, why can't you seek out an institution that suits your preferences and values? There are also many universities and colleges with a much lower percentage of international students. it sounds like that is what you would prefer for your student, so why not apply to those and try to attend one of those?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges have become top colleges by managing their own affairs across decades and centuries. Exogenous, authoritarian control of the type you suggest would be likely to weaken them.

100%

[Anonymous]

https://www.ivyscholars.com/what-are-acceptance-rates-for-international-students-at-top-colleges/


This list includes the percentage of international students enrolled in various universities at the undergraduate level. Some of them are quite low. Take a look, and find one that suits your preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ivyscholars.com/what-are-acceptance-rates-for-international-students-at-top-colleges/


This list includes the percentage of international students enrolled in various universities at the undergraduate level. Some of them are quite low. Take a look, and find one that suits your preference.

Notably NYU is number two on the list with the highest percentage of foreign students, only exceeded by the University of Rochester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges have become top colleges by managing their own affairs across decades and centuries. Exogenous, authoritarian control of the type you suggest would be likely to weaken them.

100%

With a reliance on the US taxpayer to such a degree that cutting funding by 20% for federal grants has created a bibilical crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

I am for intl students being enrolled, but my kid is at a T20, and I am surprised that probably the 25 I have spoken to are all receiving aid. Zero told me they are full pay. I used to think as you do now.

International students at Harvard get the same financial aid as US citizens. I can’t find a number for Harvard, but USNWR says 40% of international students (from schools that report a #) are on financial aid, and I would assume that number would be higher for Harvard, since they are so much more generous with regard to aid in general.

What schools charge higher tuition for international students?

I don't know where you are getting your info from, but International students do not qualify for federally sponsored aid. Maybe the students at Harvard are receiving some sort of Harvard sourced funded aid, but it's not the same as Pell Grants, Sallie Mae, Stafford, etc.. any of those government student loan programs. It could be that they are received merit aid, which is individual to each school but that is coming from the school's coffers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students from China are what make our universities great. Prior to their enrollment the US university system was substandard.

Sure. Knowing how to cheat is what makes a university great. So many Chinese students cheat to get into US colleges and cheat when they arrive. Sure there are some really hard working and brilliant Chinese students but it is astounding how many are cheating in college.


From this article: https://lamag.com/featured/ucla-cheating

At the same time as the Varsity Blues scandal a Chinese cheating ring at UCLA was discovered. Liu Cai came from Bejing to attend UCLA. He hired ringers would show up to testing sites with fake Chinese passports bearing their own photos but with the names of the clients. He helped at least 40 Chinese nationals obtain student visas by fraudulently taking the TOEFL, an English proficiency exam, on their behalf. Where Cai slipped—and where investigators caught up to him—was charging 39 test registration payments to his credit card.

A survey of 14 public universities by The Wall Street Journal found that in the 2014-15 school year, those universities reported cheating among international students at a rate five times higher than among domestic students. In 2018 a professor at UC Santa Barbara told the Los Angeles Times that Chinese students comprise 6 percent of the student body but account for a third of plagiarism cases. A 2016 study conducted by United Kingdom newspaper The Times says that students from outside the European Union were four times more likely to cheat than U.K. and European Union students.

In 2016 Reuters reported that the University of Iowa was investigating at least 30 students—most, if not all, believed to be Chinese—over allegations of cheating. In 2015 federal prosecutors in Pennsylvania indicted 15 Chinese nationals for a standardized test-taking scheme similar to the UCLA case.

I went to a 7 Sisters with a girl who cheated thru all 4 years. As did another girl who bought her essays and papers. This was in the early 90s. They were white girls. The latter managed to get into an Ivy graduate program.
This and the recent story above about the Chinese students cheating have long made me dubious about the value of college degrees. As a friend who teaches business at a local college says, if someone wants to major in clown studies, there will be a school with that program. It's all about catering to the market. I know there are school administrations that are willing to look the other way. Maybe they just think, well, what can we do? The student is only hurting themselves in the end - which is true. Faking one's way thru life isn't a long term viable strategy.
The school gets their tuition dollars and the student gets a piece of paper but has missed out on 4 years of true scholarship.
That piece of paper is no measure of character, grit and determination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am absolutely all for gifted international students coming to the US for college. I think it’s a positive all around. And I get how some low endowment schools need the income of full pay international students to make things work.

But the NY Times had an article today listing the schools with the most international students. I think it’s nuts that more than 30 percent of students at Columbia, Chicago, CMU, Hopkins, and Northeastern are international. I get it for CalTech, but that’s such a specialized school. We definitely have a big enough talent pool of students - including full pay students - to fill those classes at those schools. So I’m perplexed why schools like Columbia and Northeastern are choosing to be so heavily international

Let me introduce you to the concept known as "money". Those schools have a heavy STEM presence. China and India have an endless supply of students who could go toe to toe with top US students. So it is an easy win, win, win for all. The college gets whip-smart students, more money, and the student gets a chance to work in the US or bring that degree back home.

I don’t think we are the losers in STEM that you seem to assume. Engineering has been the most competitive major for quite some time and attracts many of the most talented students. We do not need to import mainland Chinese students to fill these majors. Mainland Chinese students are not known for creative thinking - except, possibly, when it comes to cheating. I don’t think we are adding value to the university experience with such disproportionate numbers of mainland Chinese students. And so it’s perplexing why schools like Columbia make this choice. But I’m sure it has something to do with money, but I still don’t understand how.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students from China are what make our universities great. Prior to their enrollment the US university system was substandard.

Sure. Knowing how to cheat is what makes a university great. So many Chinese students cheat to get into US colleges and cheat when they arrive. Sure there are some really hard working and brilliant Chinese students but it is astounding how many are cheating in college.


From this article: https://lamag.com/featured/ucla-cheating

At the same time as the Varsity Blues scandal a Chinese cheating ring at UCLA was discovered. Liu Cai came from Bejing to attend UCLA. He hired ringers would show up to testing sites with fake Chinese passports bearing their own photos but with the names of the clients. He helped at least 40 Chinese nationals obtain student visas by fraudulently taking the TOEFL, an English proficiency exam, on their behalf. Where Cai slipped—and where investigators caught up to him—was charging 39 test registration payments to his credit card.

A survey of 14 public universities by The Wall Street Journal found that in the 2014-15 school year, those universities reported cheating among international students at a rate five times higher than among domestic students. In 2018 a professor at UC Santa Barbara told the Los Angeles Times that Chinese students comprise 6 percent of the student body but account for a third of plagiarism cases. A 2016 study conducted by United Kingdom newspaper The Times says that students from outside the European Union were four times more likely to cheat than U.K. and European Union students.

In 2016 Reuters reported that the University of Iowa was investigating at least 30 students—most, if not all, believed to be Chinese—over allegations of cheating. In 2015 federal prosecutors in Pennsylvania indicted 15 Chinese nationals for a standardized test-taking scheme similar to the UCLA case.

I went to a 7 Sisters with a girl who cheated thru all 4 years. As did another girl who bought her essays and papers. This was in the early 90s. They were white girls. The latter managed to get into an Ivy graduate program.
This and the recent story above about the Chinese students cheating have long made me dubious about the value of college degrees. As a friend who teaches business at a local college says, if someone wants to major in clown studies, there will be a school with that program. It's all about catering to the market. I know there are school administrations that are willing to look the other way. Maybe they just think, well, what can we do? The student is only hurting themselves in the end - which is true. Faking one's way thru life isn't a long term viable strategy.
The school gets their tuition dollars and the student gets a piece of paper but has missed out on 4 years of true scholarship.
That piece of paper is no measure of character, grit and determination.

It's true some rich Chinese kids cheated their way into some good colleges, but it's much harder to cheat in stem majors if not possible. Those kids, in the end, just get a diploma to cheat their parents, no way they will do any good in their life or get a job here. Colleges know it, but for the dollar, they just look other ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am absolutely all for gifted international students coming to the US for college. I think it’s a positive all around. And I get how some low endowment schools need the income of full pay international students to make things work.

But the NY Times had an article today listing the schools with the most international students. I think it’s nuts that more than 30 percent of students at Columbia, Chicago, CMU, Hopkins, and Northeastern are international. I get it for CalTech, but that’s such a specialized school. We definitely have a big enough talent pool of students - including full pay students - to fill those classes at those schools. So I’m perplexed why schools like Columbia and Northeastern are choosing to be so heavily international

Let me introduce you to the concept known as "money". Those schools have a heavy STEM presence. China and India have an endless supply of students who could go toe to toe with top US students. So it is an easy win, win, win for all. The college gets whip-smart students, more money, and the student gets a chance to work in the US or bring that degree back home.

I don’t think we are the losers in STEM that you seem to assume. Engineering has been the most competitive major for quite some time and attracts many of the most talented students. We do not need to import mainland Chinese students to fill these majors. Mainland Chinese students are not known for creative thinking - except, possibly, when it comes to cheating. I don’t think we are adding value to the university experience with such disproportionate numbers of mainland Chinese students. And so it’s perplexing why schools like Columbia make this choice. But I’m sure it has something to do with money, but I still don’t understand how.

Talented white kids here go to law school, that leaves stem fields to foreign students, or Asian American students. Number don't lie, White is more than 50 percent, Asian is only 6-8 percent, Black is 8-9 percent, it tells story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ivyscholars.com/what-are-acceptance-rates-for-international-students-at-top-colleges/


This list includes the percentage of international students enrolled in various universities at the undergraduate level. Some of them are quite low. Take a look, and find one that suits your preference.

Surprised Michigan is 21% international!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.ivyscholars.com/what-are-acceptance-rates-for-international-students-at-top-colleges/


This list includes the percentage of international students enrolled in various universities at the undergraduate level. Some of them are quite low. Take a look, and find one that suits your preference.

Surprised Michigan is 21% international!

NP. It is not, not at the undergrad level. UMich is 8% international per the most recent Common Data Set https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/CDS_2024-25_UMAA.pdf, see section B2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other countries, international students need to pay a lot more than domestic students.

As they do here....in general at least as they are not eligible for aid.