Enough is enough with the redshirting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oldest-kids-in-the-class-may-get-an-edge-in-college-admissions-1503052268

That says oldest in class and doesn’t stratify by whether that’s natural or redshirting.

So no.

There is always going to be an older group in any K class and yes, that older group shows an advantage.

It doesn’t follow that those who redshirt have the same benefits or more as those naturally older kids.

So much weird gaslighting. Just say it’s an advantage. That’s the annoying part. The denying it’s an advantage in any way.

It may be an advantage to be the oldest but it is a huge disadvantage to send a not ready very young kid to kindergarten. Shouldn’t be surprising which side parents err on.

That’s fine for a summer kid but a winter? It’s scary for most kids to go to K. No one is totally ready.

I don’t know any winter redshirted kids.

That’s what the discussion is about, 10 year olds in Third in December.

No, a redshirted kid is 9 in third not 10. OP is talking about an odd situation of double held back kids.

No, kids with October-November 2015 birthdates are very much in third grade because they were redshirted or repeated. They were not held back twice. And some school systems have an August 31 cutoff, so there are September 2015 kids as well. None of those kids were held back twice. They should have started kindergarten fall 2020 and first grade in fall 2021. Instead they did kindergarten in fall 2021.

October or Nov 2015 is the normal age for the grade
2014 is what his classmates are and it's a redshirt age
They were held back once, but were the oldest in the grade so it is a huge age gap with younger kids in the grade.
They did Kinder in 2020. It was covid year.
They are 10 years old in 3rd.

In the DMV Oct 2015 is the correct age for the oldest in 3rd grade. May June, July, August, September 2015 are redshirted kids in 3rd grade.

In my opinion anything before that is not red shirting it's held back a year. When people are talking about a January 2015 kid in 3rd grade you don't say the parents were on the fence with development and waited to send their kid. You say they are held back or they repeated a grade. A December 2014 kid would be behind the cutoff on the older side, so is a deliberate decision to hold then a year behind.

Its not the same conversation.

I personally dont know anyone with held back kids except one family with severe disabilities. I do know plenty of redshirted kids, especially in the 3rd grade when the other option was virtual school. My son is an August 2015 in 4th grade and his preschool friends and friends i made when he was a baby are evenly split on who sent their kids and who didnt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oldest-kids-in-the-class-may-get-an-edge-in-college-admissions-1503052268

That says oldest in class and doesn’t stratify by whether that’s natural or redshirting.

So no.

There is always going to be an older group in any K class and yes, that older group shows an advantage.

It doesn’t follow that those who redshirt have the same benefits or more as those naturally older kids.

So much weird gaslighting. Just say it’s an advantage. That’s the annoying part. The denying it’s an advantage in any way.

It may be an advantage to be the oldest but it is a huge disadvantage to send a not ready very young kid to kindergarten. Shouldn’t be surprising which side parents err on.

That’s fine for a summer kid but a winter? It’s scary for most kids to go to K. No one is totally ready.

I don’t know any winter redshirted kids.

That’s what the discussion is about, 10 year olds in Third in December.

No, a redshirted kid is 9 in third not 10. OP is talking about an odd situation of double held back kids.

No, kids with October-November 2015 birthdates are very much in third grade because they were redshirted or repeated. They were not held back twice. And some school systems have an August 31 cutoff, so there are September 2015 kids as well. None of those kids were held back twice. They should have started kindergarten fall 2020 and first grade in fall 2021. Instead they did kindergarten in fall 2021.

Kids with October-December 2015 Bdays are in 3rd because they missed the cutoff. NY and the NYC area is the only area of the country that still uses a calendar year cutoff. Literally everywhere else in the US, the cutoff is anywhere between 7/31 and 10/1. EVERYWHERE.

Kids with June 2015-September 2015 bdays may be in 3rd now or in 4th. My 8/2015 kid is in 3rd. I didn’t start him in Covid K. No way, sorry. There are a few other redshirted summer birthdays both boys and girls in his class. I’m not aware of any early 2015 kids in PUBLIC 3rd. It just isn’t really a thing. Private may be another story.

Holding back your kid was selfish. Very selfish. Ny is one of the few states that allows fall and winter birthdays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oldest-kids-in-the-class-may-get-an-edge-in-college-admissions-1503052268

That says oldest in class and doesn’t stratify by whether that’s natural or redshirting.

So no.

There is always going to be an older group in any K class and yes, that older group shows an advantage.

It doesn’t follow that those who redshirt have the same benefits or more as those naturally older kids.

So much weird gaslighting. Just say it’s an advantage. That’s the annoying part. The denying it’s an advantage in any way.

It may be an advantage to be the oldest but it is a huge disadvantage to send a not ready very young kid to kindergarten. Shouldn’t be surprising which side parents err on.

That’s fine for a summer kid but a winter? It’s scary for most kids to go to K. No one is totally ready.

I don’t know any winter redshirted kids.

That’s what the discussion is about, 10 year olds in Third in December.

No, a redshirted kid is 9 in third not 10. OP is talking about an odd situation of double held back kids.

No, kids with October-November 2015 birthdates are very much in third grade because they were redshirted or repeated. They were not held back twice. And some school systems have an August 31 cutoff, so there are September 2015 kids as well. None of those kids were held back twice. They should have started kindergarten fall 2020 and first grade in fall 2021. Instead they did kindergarten in fall 2021.

Kids with October-December 2015 Bdays are in 3rd because they missed the cutoff. NY and the NYC area is the only area of the country that still uses a calendar year cutoff. Literally everywhere else in the US, the cutoff is anywhere between 7/31 and 10/1. EVERYWHERE.

Kids with June 2015-September 2015 bdays may be in 3rd now or in 4th. My 8/2015 kid is in 3rd. I didn’t start him in Covid K. No way, sorry. There are a few other redshirted summer birthdays both boys and girls in his class. I’m not aware of any early 2015 kids in PUBLIC 3rd. It just isn’t really a thing. Private may be another story.

Holding back your kid was selfish. Very selfish. Ny is one of the few states that allows fall and winter birthdays.

Why should PP sacrifice her kid to make it easier for some other kid to get into the gifted program? That’s selfish in another way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

In practical terms, how does this impact you?

I'm not someone who redshirted BTW.

In practical terms, my kids school offers advanced math and ELA to the top 25% of the grade. And that group is like, every single red shirted kid plus maybe 10 others. (Not NP). My kid is fine and is in the advanced group anyways, but you shouldn’t take an advanced spot away from a child if you were made to repeat K or held back from K voluntarily. You’re not an advanced and gifted learner you’re just supposed to be in the next grade up.

Top 25% in the class does not mean any of them are gifted or advanced, it just means they scored better on some testing than most of their classmates. It doesn’t matter that most are a year older, they were the top scorers because they know the material better than most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a Covid K kid. The year was a waste.

I enrolled her in 1st grade anyway figuring she would catch up.

She did.

I figure those that redshirted wanted to anyway and were just looking for an acceptable social excuse.

Most kids go to at least two years of preschool and maybe one year of pre-K. The smart kids are bored to tears with kindergarten. I wouldn’t have worried if my child was in Kindergarten during Covid. I would find other, more useful activities and keep her on track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s weird, my redshirted kid was age 9 all through 3rd.

Don't play dumb, PP. A child with a summer birthday would turn 10 right when 3rd grade ended and that's your child.

OP is talking about people who started their child a full year early. The current third grade class is the first one that started school in person after Covid. Tons of people didn't do virtual kindergarten so their child (even the ones with fall and winter birthdays) started school a year late and Johnny who would have normally turned 9 in November is instead turning 10 in November.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oldest-kids-in-the-class-may-get-an-edge-in-college-admissions-1503052268

That says oldest in class and doesn’t stratify by whether that’s natural or redshirting.

So no.

There is always going to be an older group in any K class and yes, that older group shows an advantage.

It doesn’t follow that those who redshirt have the same benefits or more as those naturally older kids.

So much weird gaslighting. Just say it’s an advantage. That’s the annoying part. The denying it’s an advantage in any way.

It may be an advantage to be the oldest but it is a huge disadvantage to send a not ready very young kid to kindergarten. Shouldn’t be surprising which side parents err on.

That’s fine for a summer kid but a winter? It’s scary for most kids to go to K. No one is totally ready.

I don’t know any winter redshirted kids.

That’s what the discussion is about, 10 year olds in Third in December.

No, a redshirted kid is 9 in third not 10. OP is talking about an odd situation of double held back kids.

No, kids with October-November 2015 birthdates are very much in third grade because they were redshirted or repeated. They were not held back twice. And some school systems have an August 31 cutoff, so there are September 2015 kids as well. None of those kids were held back twice. They should have started kindergarten fall 2020 and first grade in fall 2021. Instead they did kindergarten in fall 2021.

Kids with October-December 2015 Bdays are in 3rd because they missed the cutoff. NY and the NYC area is the only area of the country that still uses a calendar year cutoff. Literally everywhere else in the US, the cutoff is anywhere between 7/31 and 10/1. EVERYWHERE.

Kids with June 2015-September 2015 bdays may be in 3rd now or in 4th. My 8/2015 kid is in 3rd. I didn’t start him in Covid K. No way, sorry. There are a few other redshirted summer birthdays both boys and girls in his class. I’m not aware of any early 2015 kids in PUBLIC 3rd. It just isn’t really a thing. Private may be another story.

Holding back your kid was selfish. Very selfish. Ny is one of the few states that allows fall and winter birthdays.

I don’t really care, do u?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid followed the cut offs and started 6th grade as a 10 yo this fall. There shouldn't be any 10 yos in 3rd grade.

Yep, my August b-day child turned 11 right before 6th grade. My November b-day 3rd grader just turned 9. A lot of parents held their kids back during Covid, so she also has friends who were already 9 when they started school this year. Those are the kids whose parents didn't want to do virtual K. It's not traditional redshirting, it's Covid-related.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a Covid K kid. The year was a waste.

I enrolled her in 1st grade anyway figuring she would catch up.

She did.

I figure those that redshirted wanted to anyway and were just looking for an acceptable social excuse.

Most kids go to at least two years of preschool and maybe one year of pre-K. The smart kids are bored to tears with kindergarten. I wouldn’t have worried if my child was in Kindergarten during Covid. I would find other, more useful activities and keep her on track.

Actually most kids don't go to preschool at all. You are talking about wealthy children.

[Anonymous]

Nobody here understands that current third graders were the first grade to start in person after Covid. This grade has a lot of kids whose parents waited a year to start them in Kindergarten SOLELY because they didn't want to do Virtual K. This is NOT REDSHIRTING. It's Covid-related delayed start. Yes, it still sucks and those parents are stupid and could have just started their kids in 1st grade, but it is happening, nobody is lying. Please stop telling us we're lying, you're just stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody here understands that current third graders were the first grade to start in person after Covid. This grade has a lot of kids whose parents waited a year to start them in Kindergarten SOLELY because they didn't want to do Virtual K. This is NOT REDSHIRTING. It's Covid-related delayed start. Yes, it still sucks and those parents are stupid and could have just started their kids in 1st grade, but it is happening, nobody is lying. Please stop telling us we're lying, you're just stupid.

I have a current 3rd grader and I think there was more redshirting of summer birthdays (I also think there was some more redshirting of the young for grade summer 2016 birthdays who are now in 2nd instead of 3rd), but of non-summer birthday kids? I’m not seeing it. I think a lot of people still feel weird about holding back a school year birthday kid, at least in public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

In practical terms, how does this impact you?

I'm not someone who redshirted BTW.

In a competitive environment for academics and sports it impacts my young June birthday. We have 38 boys in our private and 17 from this class are redshirted. He had to constantly be held to a higher standard because his peer group is so much older and that’s across the board.

You should’ve redshirted your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oldest-kids-in-the-class-may-get-an-edge-in-college-admissions-1503052268

That says oldest in class and doesn’t stratify by whether that’s natural or redshirting.

So no.

There is always going to be an older group in any K class and yes, that older group shows an advantage.

It doesn’t follow that those who redshirt have the same benefits or more as those naturally older kids.

So much weird gaslighting. Just say it’s an advantage. That’s the annoying part. The denying it’s an advantage in any way.

It may be an advantage to be the oldest but it is a huge disadvantage to send a not ready very young kid to kindergarten. Shouldn’t be surprising which side parents err on.

Let’s say my kid starts K at age 4, turning five in late September. He is the youngest in his class. He will absolutely have a natural disadvantage against the kids who are already five some of whom will turn six end of year. Parents and pre K teacher think it’s best for him to wait. Why should I have to deal with this lottery of a birthday and suck up my “disadvantage” rather than make the choice to send my child next year when he is five? Because it would upset OP? Too bad.

The issue isn’t this. It’s kids who are born in the early part of the year red shirting to have an outrageous advantage.

Ah so some redshirting is ok aka if you agree with it.

NP to this thread.

Obviously the debate is over where to draw the line. Even you have a line. Do you think kids should be allowed to start K at age 7, at their parents' discretion, because they "aren't ready" (even if no demonstrated developmental delays)? Are you okay with your kid attending 4th grade with kids in full blown puberty? Do you want your children going to high school with kids who can drink legally? I'm guessing no.

So everyone has a breaking point with redshirting. It's fine and reasonable until it's not and everyone draws that line in a slightly different place but they all draw the line *somewhere*.

For me I think the cut off should be September 1st with flexibility with parents of summer birthdays (late June through August) because there's no obvious solution for what to do with summer birthdays -- some kids are ready for K as a young 5 and some aren't. A redshirted summer birthday will never be much older than other kids in class so you preserve a reasonably narrow age range for each cohort this way. No more than 14 months apart.

Alternatively we should upend the entire school system and use the Montessori approach of mixed grade classrooms for early elementary in order to remove this issue. But that would require retraining all teachers and totally altering the curriculum so I get this will never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are two ten year olds in my child’s third grade class. When will a school draw a line with this?

In practical terms, how does this impact you?

I'm not someone who redshirted BTW.

In a competitive environment for academics and sports it impacts my young June birthday. We have 38 boys in our private and 17 from this class are redshirted. He had to constantly be held to a higher standard because his peer group is so much older and that’s across the board.

You should’ve redshirted your child.

That’s what it comes down to isn’t it? OP is in a nice private school and is salty that she didn’t realize that redshirting of the summer birthday kids, and perhaps even the late spring kids, is somewhat expected. She could switch to public where most June birthday kids go on time and her kid would no longer be the youngest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-oldest-kids-in-the-class-may-get-an-edge-in-college-admissions-1503052268

That says oldest in class and doesn’t stratify by whether that’s natural or redshirting.

So no.

There is always going to be an older group in any K class and yes, that older group shows an advantage.

It doesn’t follow that those who redshirt have the same benefits or more as those naturally older kids.

So much weird gaslighting. Just say it’s an advantage. That’s the annoying part. The denying it’s an advantage in any way.

It may be an advantage to be the oldest but it is a huge disadvantage to send a not ready very young kid to kindergarten. Shouldn’t be surprising which side parents err on.

Let’s say my kid starts K at age 4, turning five in late September. He is the youngest in his class. He will absolutely have a natural disadvantage against the kids who are already five some of whom will turn six end of year. Parents and pre K teacher think it’s best for him to wait. Why should I have to deal with this lottery of a birthday and suck up my “disadvantage” rather than make the choice to send my child next year when he is five? Because it would upset OP? Too bad.

The issue isn’t this. It’s kids who are born in the early part of the year red shirting to have an outrageous advantage.

Ah so some redshirting is ok aka if you agree with it.

NP to this thread.

Obviously the debate is over where to draw the line. Even you have a line. Do you think kids should be allowed to start K at age 7, at their parents' discretion, because they "aren't ready" (even if no demonstrated developmental delays)? Are you okay with your kid attending 4th grade with kids in full blown puberty? Do you want your children going to high school with kids who can drink legally? I'm guessing no.

So everyone has a breaking point with redshirting. It's fine and reasonable until it's not and everyone draws that line in a slightly different place but they all draw the line *somewhere*.

For me I think the cut off should be September 1st with flexibility with parents of summer birthdays (late June through August) because there's no obvious solution for what to do with summer birthdays -- some kids are ready for K as a young 5 and some aren't. A redshirted summer birthday will never be much older than other kids in class so you preserve a reasonably narrow age range for each cohort this way. No more than 14 months apart.

Alternatively we should upend the entire school system and use the Montessori approach of mixed grade classrooms for early elementary in order to remove this issue. But that would require retraining all teachers and totally altering the curriculum so I get this will never happen.

There should also be a streamlined national cut off. I live in NY where were the last area with a December 31st cut off and I’d prefer not to send my kids with fall birthdays to kindergarten at 4 years old, but also concerned about redshirting in our small bubble, especially for my daughter.