DC’s friend broke something expensive - WWYD

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I coach a group of 10-11 yo 5th graders and there is a huge range of maturity in that group. Some are more like teens and would absolutely know that they broke something. They'd also have the maturity to know not to touch and, if something was broken, it would be malicious.

There are also some kids in the same group who would have zero realization that there are things they shouldn't touch or that break easily. I don't know if their parents keep breakable items up so the kids haven't had a chance to learn not to touch, or if the kids can't control themselves so the parents are forced to keep breakables up, but these kids have zero clue. They wouldn't know they were doing something wrong in opening the turn table, would touch to see how it worked and, if parts started coming off, they'd keep going to try to understand or to fix it. Zero clue.

I think it can be hard to understand when you have kids in the former group and meet a kid in the later group, or vice versa. It's just like some kids walk at 9 months and others at 18 months--it's nothing the parents did, but part of development.

OP, I'd be really careful attributing motive or malicious intent to a 10 yo. You need to own that you overestimated this 10 yo's ability to control himself. Take a few more days and try to step back from your emotional response to this. I'm not saying the other family shouldn't take some responsibility, but you're very attached to the idea that the kid acted maliciously, when there's no motive or reason to think that the 10 yo was anything but impulsive and clumsy.

She didn’t overestimate the kid’s ability to control himself. She overestimated the kid’s parent’s ability to control her own kid. Big difference.

OP has never said that th parent was in the room, but that the parent was "present" which I took to mean something like having coffee in the kitchen while the kids played elsewhere in the apartment. If the parent was there, why did they have to ask their kid if they opened the case and touch it? The story doesn't make complete sense.

OP here. It’s in my actual OP that the mom was in the room. I have never written in any post that the child acted maliciously. There is no other place for the equipment; DH was not home when this occurred; he used this typically daily, or at minimum 5 days a week. I have not written anything other than these things, other posters have. I appreciate the idea of how to present this.

You have said that the damage was purposeful and intentional, both of which ascribe a motive. Why do you think the kid intentionally damaged the equipment? Why do you think the parent let them?

It doesn't make a lot of sense.

NP. Intentional is not the same as malicious. Words have meanings.

So what was the intent? What exactly does the OP think the kid intended? The adult? Intentional has a meaning. It's different than impulsive and clumsy.

He intentionally took the lid off the turntable. He intentionally messed with whatever component he eventually broke. As opposed to accidentally tripping and falling into it. He did not maliciously intend to damage the turntable.

He was curious. He didn’t intentionally damage it. Yes, he purposely touched it and took it apart - but he wasn’t trying to damage it - just didn’t know what he was doing. Kids are curious.

It sucks. I’d be sad. I am sure to r parents talked to the kid. I would never had asked them to pay. Next time - tell kids not it touch!

She. Had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not accept $ from the friend even if it was offered. Things happen, and seems clear this was in a common area, and an unfamiliar yet intriguing item in the kid’s reach. He didn’t do it on purpose (smash it or throw it or something) and it wasn’t a commonly known off-limits item either (for example a 10yo would generally know not to touch breakables in a China cabinet).

FWIW it is better to set boundaries ahead of time when kids are over (even if the parents are in attendance). I tell kids upfront that the master bedroom and office are OFF limits- that is why those doors are closed, and do NOT touch the piano in the living room (because it is annoying AF). I say these things in a nice but firm voice- then I tell them to go play, have fun. My kids know these rules also, and where guests are allowed to be. Saves some grief. I also have no problem at all with telling kids “hey Larlo- cake needs to stay in the kitchen please” or whatever. A lot of parents are busy socializing & are not necessarily aware of what fragile items might be present or what special rules we have- if I don’t tell them. I consider it my job as host to manage. If the kid or parent is truly that difficult, I don’t invite over again.

I think you’re missing that this child had visited the apartment multiple times over the course of many years, it was not an unfamiliar object as he had seen it over the course of his many visits, and had been told not to touch the turntable. This wasn’t a new friend on a first playdate who didn’t know the rules and was trying to explore the house.

[Anonymous]

I generally agree with what someone else posted earlier in the thread:

The friendship is toast at this point…might as well take the $ then.

FWIW if I valued the friendship I’d have eaten the cost and not said anything- but you already did. If $ was tight I’d have worked it out with DH to replace in lieu of doing/buying something important to me, since it technically happened on my “watch”.

[Anonymous]

Legally you are entitled to none, since a seven year old is not liable for negligence.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What a fun thread.

You can practically hear OP squealing with excitement over all the attention.

Projection is a powerful thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP, but it’s just stupid to have such expensive things where kids are playing if you can’t put the things away. You say you live in a small apartment, so it sounds like this is not the stage in your life where you have expensive things for the hobby. Same reason I’m waiting to get super nice furniture. Things happen, things get broken.

NP. This is adorable

Yeah, for New Yorkers small apartments are not a stage of life. Hard to understand when you live in a McMansion, I guess.

Having kids is a stage of life.
It’s hard to imagine when you are in the middle of it, but in 5 years, this won’t be an issue. Most people would get something less expensive but workable for now and get the furniture that’s thousands of dollars when the kids are older.

This is someone else's kid! We are 50 year old DINKs and we have young kids at hte house sometimes when they come with their parents. You really learn a lot about what fun to touch in your house when someone else's kid shows up.

Are you OP? Subject line says this is OP’s kid’s friend.

No, not OP - but the post makes clear that OP is friends with the parents, too. So you can have people over with their little kids and run the risk of this happening.

10 isn’t a little kid.

It’s still a little kid.
A 10 year old’s prefrontal cortex (the part of your brain that controls judgement) is not much more developed than a 5 year old’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fun thread.

You can practically hear OP squealing with excitement over all the attention.

Projection is a powerful thing.

I agree with PPP and think PP is still OP coming back and not identifying herself as such. There’s a defensive and unkind tone throughout the thread that matches OP’s after she seemed to stop around page 9.

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP who write that the other family is trying it on. As another PP suggested, I’d try to gently talk them up and accept whatever the next offer is. You’re unlikely to get the full replacement cost.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP, but it’s just stupid to have such expensive things where kids are playing if you can’t put the things away. You say you live in a small apartment, so it sounds like this is not the stage in your life where you have expensive things for the hobby. Same reason I’m waiting to get super nice furniture. Things happen, things get broken.

NP. This is adorable

Yeah, for New Yorkers small apartments are not a stage of life. Hard to understand when you live in a McMansion, I guess.

Having kids is a stage of life.
It’s hard to imagine when you are in the middle of it, but in 5 years, this won’t be an issue. Most people would get something less expensive but workable for now and get the furniture that’s thousands of dollars when the kids are older.

This is someone else's kid! We are 50 year old DINKs and we have young kids at hte house sometimes when they come with their parents. You really learn a lot about what fun to touch in your house when someone else's kid shows up.

Are you OP? Subject line says this is OP’s kid’s friend.

No, not OP - but the post makes clear that OP is friends with the parents, too. So you can have people over with their little kids and run the risk of this happening.

10 isn’t a little kid.

It’s still a little kid.
A 10 year old’s prefrontal cortex (the part of your brain that controls judgement) is not much more developed than a 5 year old’s.

My god. No wonder today’s children are such nightmares. Their parents treat 10 year olds like 5 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been in a situation like this as the parent of the child who broke the item. My 6 yo broke a tv screen at a friend's house. A total freak accident that happened when the children were unsupervised in the basement. As soon as the mother told me, I immediately offered to replace the TV. Of course it turned out to be a $2500 TV, but I felt that I had no option but to just replace since I offered. It especially burned since the tv was not brand new, so they ended up getting a newer, better model TV on us, but my child is the one who broke the TV, even though they were playing a rough game, unsupervised at the behest of their children...

I still have some resentment about it, given that we don't let children play unsupervised around anything valuable in our house. The replacement cost was not nothing for us, and this family is far wealthier. Additionally, the children of these friends touch everything when they come over to our house, even after being told no do not touch (and this particularly touchy kid is 4 yrs older than our kid and should know better).

The family is in our greater school friend group, so we also decided to suck it up and pay because we didn't want to cause any drama, and it turned out that the expensive TV family is now looked down upon by the rest of the group because all were horrified that they accepted our offer to replace. DH and I were not the ones who told others. We just replaced it quietly and moved on because we were somewhat embarrassed. The broken TV dad was the one who mentioned to others. Everyone knows how much disposable income this family has because the dad brags a bit and talks about money far more than most.

Long winded story OP, but, you might want to just pay to replace yourself if there is the chance that others will judge and you suffer social consequences for being viewed as cheap by your friend group. If you have the money to replace, and it is not a huge burden, is it worth the potential social cost?

I agree with this. It's just not reasonable, anyway you slice it, to expect parents to pay 100% of the cost for such an incident. The PP was very easygoing, and it's true the host family should have accepted a contribution instead of total replacement cost. You should too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fun thread.

You can practically hear OP squealing with excitement over all the attention.

Projection is a powerful thing.

I agree with PPP and think PP is still OP coming back and not identifying herself as such. There’s a defensive and unkind tone throughout the thread that matches OP’s after she seemed to stop around page 9.

Nope - I’m OP, and I wrote the projection post. I wasn’t unkind, the responses of some of you are truly bananas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who write that the other family is trying it on. As another PP suggested, I’d try to gently talk them up and accept whatever the next offer is. You’re unlikely to get the full replacement cost.

Op here; I’m not going to demand full replacement, and a poster way back on p2 gave some good phrasing. The stuff lobbed at me and at other posters who see where I’m coming from is nuts, so I pop in periodically. Not a troll but I’m sure that accusation is next!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the PP who write that the other family is trying it on. As another PP suggested, I’d try to gently talk them up and accept whatever the next offer is. You’re unlikely to get the full replacement cost.

Op here; I’m not going to demand full replacement, and a poster way back on p2 gave some good phrasing. The stuff lobbed at me and at other posters who see where I’m coming from is nuts, so I pop in periodically. Not a troll but I’m sure that accusation is next!

Troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fun thread.

You can practically hear OP squealing with excitement over all the attention.

Projection is a powerful thing.

I agree with PPP and think PP is still OP coming back and not identifying herself as such. There’s a defensive and unkind tone throughout the thread that matches OP’s after she seemed to stop around page 9.

Excellent call!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t demand money. When you have guests around there is always the possibility that things get broken. You should just be gracious about it and chalk it up to bad luck.

+1

I wouldn’t have said anything, TBH. Pretty awkward, and can never really be entirely sure what happened. Are you certain your own kids did not play a role- and where were they when this happened? We don’t keep anything expensive out for this reason, but I understand with apartment living this is harder to avoid.

That said, if someone claimed my kid broke something I’d just pay in full regardless. That said, it may damage the friendship if I felt friend was being difficult or blaming my kid for something he did not do.

But they did do it - DC and I never touch it, the other guests did not, the child said they did it. No one else played a role, and all of these people have been over so many times over the year. The child said they touched it to their mom when asked and had to have opened the cover to do it. She told me he said he touched it.

You are so focused on “being right “ that you are going to lose this person as a friend. Hopefully your husbands expensive hobby is worth losing this friendship.