Raising kids in a competitive UMC community? Would you do it all over again?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

And yet you're surrounded by people driving six-figure SUVs. Ok.

LA and NYC also has plenty of poverty.

Places outside of DC seem more focused on beauty. Or DC is just an unattractive city. Lots of well educated unattractive people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your basic daughter would be lucky if my boys and their friends took notice of them with or without lululemon. I don’t think any boy or man looks at a girl and notices some tiny logo. He may notice if she has a pretty face or nice figure. An expensive makeup won’t help your daughter if she isn’t pretty.

They don’t dress for the boys. They dress for their friends.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Not PP but i also don't find this to be a big deal. All these items taken together (<$500) are less expensive than a good phone not to mention travel and activities. it's really a drop on the bucket.

That said, I also agree with PP that boys don't care about any of that crap. They don't care about your leggings or the brand of your makeup. If you are are hot you can dress at Walmart. Teach your girls that they don't need to follow the herd - certainly not all of the time.

+1

DD learned in HS that the "herd" was vapid, mean, troubled and problematic - they were barely good friends to each other. DD moved on, and it was the best thing that ever happened to her.

Teach your child to make good friends, with good people, and like all relationships, to choose wisely - not to aspire to those who are the self described "popular" kids. The popular kids usually peak in HS - find people (DD or DS) who want the same as you, not stunted HS behaviors.

This presumes there are other friend options.

[Anonymous]

[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The hilarious thing about this to me is that we're talking about DC here. Not NYC or LA or SF, but DC.

I moved to DC 20 years ago specifically because it was NOT those cities. It was cheaper, easier to get around, less intense. I was graduating law school and actually summered at a NYC firm and had multiple offers from CA firms (I'm from there) but DC felt more chill and I wanted a "smaller pond."

And DC is STILL a smaller pond than any of those places, but I think that's part of the problem. Instead of embracing that fact, people in this area resent it and have a big chip on their shoulder, and get even more competitive because they don't want anyone looking down on them because their from DC. Ugh. Whooooo Caaaaaaares. People from NY and LA look down on everyone, FYI.

Anyway, we are leaving and I'm relieved. Heading to an even smaller pond, but one that embraces that fact instead of being insecure about it.

I doubt people look down on the DC area. It’s that nobody really thinks of it as anything other than bureaucrats and politicians and their aides running around.

I definitely look down at DC! I live in Greenwich and lived in the City for years. DC is parochial and competition is definitely not as fierce.

I mean you make a good point (and maybe you are a troll trying to make a point?). I rather my kids be surrounded by high strung nerds than old money/low key racist and classist patronizing people in places like Greenwich who use words like “parochial” as an insult. I’ve met those people. See OP? It could be so much worse!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Not PP but i also don't find this to be a big deal. All these items taken together (<$500) are less expensive than a good phone not to mention travel and activities. it's really a drop on the bucket.

That said, I also agree with PP that boys don't care about any of that crap. They don't care about your leggings or the brand of your makeup. If you are are hot you can dress at Walmart. Teach your girls that they don't need to follow the herd - certainly not all of the time.

+1

DD learned in HS that the "herd" was vapid, mean, troubled and problematic - they were barely good friends to each other. DD moved on, and it was the best thing that ever happened to her.

Teach your child to make good friends, with good people, and like all relationships, to choose wisely - not to aspire to those who are the self described "popular" kids. The popular kids usually peak in HS - find people (DD or DS) who want the same as you, not stunted HS behaviors.

This presumes there are other friend options.

There are always other people in school, no??

[Anonymous]

I can tell you as someone who grew up in a place/environment like this, I am VERY deliberately raising my kids elsewhere. And that’s something I felt strongly about

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you can live on this area and not buy into the rat race. Yes I know peer pressure happens but the kids are fretting about TJ or college admissions generally have parents who are as well. I know there are exceptions but this seems to be the rule.

This is my feeling. Who knows how my kid feels (actually an interesting question) but for the most part I don’t get all these posts complaining about running around for extra-curriculars and whatnot.

My kid never did travel sports— actually never did any extracurricular that required getting in a car more than once a week. Never got tutored. Never had designer clothes. Did get starbucks once in a while but whatever. Ended up with some really great friends and went off to a great college.

My feeling is I’d rather have a good school and not try to get sucked into keeping up the jones, than live somewhere with really limited options for education etc and either live with it or try to supplement.

Most small towns suck in my experience and if you’ve really found one that doesn’t then congrats.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Not PP but i also don't find this to be a big deal. All these items taken together (<$500) are less expensive than a good phone not to mention travel and activities. it's really a drop on the bucket.

That said, I also agree with PP that boys don't care about any of that crap. They don't care about your leggings or the brand of your makeup. If you are are hot you can dress at Walmart. Teach your girls that they don't need to follow the herd - certainly not all of the time.

+1

DD learned in HS that the "herd" was vapid, mean, troubled and problematic - they were barely good friends to each other. DD moved on, and it was the best thing that ever happened to her.

Teach your child to make good friends, with good people, and like all relationships, to choose wisely - not to aspire to those who are the self described "popular" kids. The popular kids usually peak in HS - find people (DD or DS) who want the same as you, not stunted HS behaviors.

This presumes there are other friend options.

There are always other people in school, no??

I mean for girls, if you don’t want to have friends like the above, your only other real options are the theater kids, furries and gender-whatever kids. Not all girls feel comfortable with those options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Not PP but i also don't find this to be a big deal. All these items taken together (<$500) are less expensive than a good phone not to mention travel and activities. it's really a drop on the bucket.

That said, I also agree with PP that boys don't care about any of that crap. They don't care about your leggings or the brand of your makeup. If you are are hot you can dress at Walmart. Teach your girls that they don't need to follow the herd - certainly not all of the time.

+1

DD learned in HS that the "herd" was vapid, mean, troubled and problematic - they were barely good friends to each other. DD moved on, and it was the best thing that ever happened to her.

Teach your child to make good friends, with good people, and like all relationships, to choose wisely - not to aspire to those who are the self described "popular" kids. The popular kids usually peak in HS - find people (DD or DS) who want the same as you, not stunted HS behaviors.

This presumes there are other friend options.

There are always other people in school, no??

I mean for girls, if you don’t want to have friends like the above, your only other real options are the theater kids, furries and gender-whatever kids. Not all girls feel comfortable with those options.

Da hell

[Anonymous]

My siblings and I grew up in both. If I had to choose between the two extremes, I would choose UMC.

You can try to temper the pressures by encouraging them to do a couple activities rather than a ton.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Not PP but i also don't find this to be a big deal. All these items taken together (<$500) are less expensive than a good phone not to mention travel and activities. it's really a drop on the bucket.

That said, I also agree with PP that boys don't care about any of that crap. They don't care about your leggings or the brand of your makeup. If you are are hot you can dress at Walmart. Teach your girls that they don't need to follow the herd - certainly not all of the time.

+1

DD learned in HS that the "herd" was vapid, mean, troubled and problematic - they were barely good friends to each other. DD moved on, and it was the best thing that ever happened to her.

Teach your child to make good friends, with good people, and like all relationships, to choose wisely - not to aspire to those who are the self described "popular" kids. The popular kids usually peak in HS - find people (DD or DS) who want the same as you, not stunted HS behaviors.

This presumes there are other friend options.

There are always other people in school, no??

I mean for girls, if you don’t want to have friends like the above, your only other real options are the theater kids, furries and gender-whatever kids. Not all girls feel comfortable with those options.

Da hell

Some of these PPs are right: those complaining will carry their problems with them wherever they go.

We are supposed to empathize with these kids ( and their whiny parents) who don't feel ' comfortable' around theater kids, rich kids, other kids etc. Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There are plenty of places in the DC area which are middle class and not competitive UMC environments OP.

You can choose to live in a super competitive school district or go to an expensive private school, or you can live in a less expensive area with decent mid tier public schools, even in the DC area. The choice is yours OP.

Not OP, but again, I completely reject this. We moved out to Loudoun County, to a diverse area with middling public schools. Our MS/HS hover around a 4 on Great Schools. While this did maybe result in less academic competition (in numbers of kids, the competitive kids are still competitive), there is still tremendous financial competition. My husband and I call it the "arms race" and its definitely contagious. Some people cannot stand when others have something better than they do and must immediately remedy the situation. Tons of fancy 60-70k SUVs (the latest trend seems to be a fully loaded Tahoe), $100k kitchens, second homes, new cars for teenagers, expensive name brand clothing and shoes (most teens are wearing a sneaker that costs $150+) etc. You would have to be blind or oblivious not to notice. A friend of mine recently told me she no longer wants to host at her home because she is embarrassed that her kitchen is old and not remodeled.

I'm pretty sure Loudon county is the richest county in Virginia, or actually the entire country. So not only do you live in the middle of nowhere, but you have crappy schools and you didn't remotely escape that striver mindset.

I’m not going to bother explaining statistics to you, but highest median household income does not equal net worth or even mean/average household income. Most of the families doing all this striving are barely breaking $300k. They are just terrible with money and value superficial things.

Ok? What's your point? I understand statistics, thanks. The point is that the person saying they moved to Loudon County and are then shocked that they're surrounded by strivers missed the memo that that's exactly the kind of person who lives in Loudon County.

I’m that poster and Loudoun County is not a monolith. My kids high school has 40% of students on free and reduced lunch. Saying the medical HHI in Loudoun is over $100k doesn’t mean every (or even most) families in Loudoun are UMC.

And yet you're surrounded by people driving six-figure SUVs. Ok.

LA and NYC also has plenty of poverty.

Places outside of DC seem more focused on beauty. Or DC is just an unattractive city. Lots of well educated unattractive people.

Lots of well-educated, unattractive people with no fashion sense who can't wait to tell you about how well-educated they are... who also think they are making great sacrifices to "help government" while raking in 300k, or, more often, quietly drawing from a family trust and making 150k but having a complex about it because their sister/brother/identical twin is a neurosurgeon in LA/food stylist in NYC and has a much cooler life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can tell you as someone who grew up in a place/environment like this, I am VERY deliberately raising my kids elsewhere. And that’s something I felt strongly about

I wasn't raised in this environment and I never wanted to raise my kid in it. Circumstances put us here, geographically, but Im still happy to have mostly avoided the rat race aspect.

The flip side of that is we are social pariahs. And that part does suck. We weren't in our old city, and making friends is never something I found difficult before moving here, but... It's a very toxic bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's fine. "Middle class striver" values are hard work, the importance of education and knowledge, and earning a good living. Those are the types of values I want to inculcate in my children.

Interesting. I really dislike/reject the pervasive idea that if my teen isn't decked out head to toe in Lululemon with regular hair highlights and a $50/week Starbucks habit that there is some wrong/lacking in our family. IYKYK.

Yes, I despise this culture and it seems to be ubiquitous in all the DMV affluent areas. So shallow and boring, producing so many vapid and uber-spoiled kids.

Yes. We moved from DC a few yrs ago to a mid sized middle class town. My teen has zero interest in lululemon, Starbucks, Stanley cups and high end skincare and makeup. It just isn’t on her radar at all, or that of her friends’ and schoolmates from what I gather.

I always hear about Lululemon online. Lululemon is really not all that expensive. I have boys though who don’t care about brands.

I grew up in an affluent neighborhood. I was very confident and always got a lot of attention from the guys. A cute dress doesn’t have to be brand name. Your makeup also doesn’t have to be expensive.

Even as a middle aged woman, I see woman who spend a lot of money on makeup and that doesn’t mean she is prettier.

Teach your girls to be confident.

My friend was looking for gifts for her teen nieces and nephews. I said I read online about Stanley cups and Lululemon. She just bought it and didn’t consider it an expensive gift. Same with uggs or crocs. I hardly think these items are expensive.

Really? You don’t think $100 leggings, $120 hoodie, $45 water bottle and $100 slippers, $50 eye shadow palette is totally normal for a 12 yr old?

Not PP but i also don't find this to be a big deal. All these items taken together (<$500) are less expensive than a good phone not to mention travel and activities. it's really a drop on the bucket.

That said, I also agree with PP that boys don't care about any of that crap. They don't care about your leggings or the brand of your makeup. If you are are hot you can dress at Walmart. Teach your girls that they don't need to follow the herd - certainly not all of the time.

+1

DD learned in HS that the "herd" was vapid, mean, troubled and problematic - they were barely good friends to each other. DD moved on, and it was the best thing that ever happened to her.

Teach your child to make good friends, with good people, and like all relationships, to choose wisely - not to aspire to those who are the self described "popular" kids. The popular kids usually peak in HS - find people (DD or DS) who want the same as you, not stunted HS behaviors.

This presumes there are other friend options.

There are always other people in school, no??

I mean for girls, if you don’t want to have friends like the above, your only other real options are the theater kids, furries and gender-whatever kids. Not all girls feel comfortable with those options.

This isn’t the 80s lady. You sound like a legit boomer.

[Anonymous]

I grew up very middle class (real middle class not DCUM "middle" class) in the rural midwest, now live Arlington. There are a ton of benefits to raising kids in an area with so much education and resources and people who strive for excellence. And it doesn't have to be stressful -- that is something parents create. We don't do travel sports or too many extra curriculars. We stress the importance of working hard in school, but not that Ivy's are important (because we don't think they are). We spend our weekends hanging out and camping, hiking, just like we would regardless of where we lived.