What are the most common ways women waste their 20s?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marrying right after college is cool and smart. You should be in that mentality.

Sleeping around aka "dating" around is gross, unhealthy, and leads to mental despair.

Your laptop, PowerPoint, Excel, email job is not actually important.

Stop being an alcoholic.

Traveling is a time and money sink.

Your first two statements are harsh with a grain of truth and the third is definitely true.

The last statement.... I couldn't possibly disagree more. Travel early and often. Cheaply if you can. Apply for internships, stipends, study abroad, fellowships, short term jobs, ANYTHING and travel to far flung places in the world FOR FREE or cheaply. This is something you can basically only do in your 20s. Travel, travel, travel! Especially when the pandemic hit, I thanked all the stars that I said "YES" to so many opportunities when I was young. Because you never know what can happen. Pandemics, politics, kids, jobs, money. Adult problems. Use your youth to travel. Get lost on a city's public transit system, stay in a hostel, fumble around in a foreign language. Have adventures, DO IT!!!

Traveling while single (before marriage and babies) is a crutch to avoid reality, waste time, binge drink, eat tourist food, and waste money. Squandering your 20s away being a brainless consumer, seeking likes on instagram. Pointless.

You want to travel, do it in college, study abroad, and if you pursue an MBA, go ahead and take those trips with classmates. But these white collar women age 25 to 35 who think traveling is a personality or a substitute for a husband and kids are lost.

Well, maybe fore you. For many of us, it's a way to learn languages, build an international network, visit the Louvre and the Sistine Chapel, learn how to make sushi in Japan, cycle around Taiwan on innovative electric bamboo bikes, dance samba in Brazil with some of the most talented musicians on the planet, see India's Hyderabad transform itself into a global cyber hub from dust, and learn how to turn on every type of shower handle imaginable. Among other things.

And no, I didn't post any of that on Facebook or Instagram.

Unless you’re in the state department, you’re spinning yarn. A “network” of random hookups and passport stamps you think are social currency. When everyone your age is talking about their tween kids and you’re talking about trips, you look ridiculous. Sorry, just being frank.

Idk but if I’m at a party I would rather hear about their experiences trekking in Kyrgyzstan than about Larla’s band recital.

Sure sure. And everyone just loves the "cool" wine aunt (actually, they all secretly feel sorry for her).

I mean it varies. Some people find “epic” travel stories to be pretentious, other people think incessant taking about one’s kids to be boring. And I love my cool triathlete aunt who is childless (not be choice, sadly) who raises German Shepherds. My hunch is that more than one mommy in the hypothetical group appreciates the escapism of the Kyrgyzstan trekking stories as a break from all the Larlo, Larla, Larleigh extracurricular one-upsmanship.

I LOVE my childless friends. I love them for themselves, but also deeply appreciate how much they have to give because they aren’t burdened by their own kids. They sustained me through the difficult early parenthood years when they could visit with ease. I love my mom friends too, but my “wine aunt” friends are gold. Anyway women’s value is not defined by their status as wives and mothers, in case that needs to be said.

I am a dog lover who raises large dogs, kids (with tons of extra curricular activities, lol), had a career and loads of adventurous travel prior to SAHM with the kids. I guess I’ve had it all, just not at the same time. The trade-off in my case was having kids late (late 30s and 40s). Was lucky with fertility, needed no assistance.

Ok good for you? Life actually isn’t a menu to pick and choose from. My point is that childless women have just as much value as mothers. If you judge a woman based on having kids or not, you’re sexist full stop.

DP but of course childless women have value! I think the point of this thread is if you *do* want to have kids, you need to be working to put the infrastructure (a committed partner, gainful employment, etc.) in place by your mid twenties and not screwing around in dead end relationships and jobs. For some people it will work out just fine regardless, but you may have to compromise more on a partner later in life, and it may be harder to conceive.

OP frames this as women “wasting” their lives by not marrying and reproducing on schedule. That’s not about an impartial assessment of achieving goals … it’s mired, deeply, in sexism.

By on schedule you mean as God designed our bodies to do? Reproductive prime is 20s. That’s a fact. Wait until 30 and you’ll likely need all sort of doctors and $ and risks. Hope the random hookups, traveling and email job was worth it, girl boss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking they have all the time in the world to work on the personal life piece: home and family. No, you don't. Time moves very, very quickly. Society loves to lie to you every day.

+1000. You will wake up one day and be 30 and will wonder what the hell happened.

Childfree women are the happiest demographic.

Right? Guarantee that there are more married 40 year old women w kids waking up and wondering what the hell happened to their lives I don’t discuss this with my childless friends directly, but I’m fairly sure they consider themselves pretty darn lucky in many ways to be in their positions.

I think people who are doing what they truly want in life are pretty happy . So if you truly wanted kids and a spouse and didn't just do it because you thought you should you're probably happy. Same if you didn't want to be a mom and spouse. Conversely if you did want marriage and kids and it didn't happen you're probably not so happy. Or if you had those kids and have a spouse but regret it you're probably unhappy.

Bringing it back to the original topic the best thing a woman can learn her own mind as soon as possible. Figure out what she wants in life. Not her parents, friends, social media, her boyfriend etc. What she wants and pursue it fervently.

Nah. I very much wanted kids. But kids are a huge financial and personal stressor. They do not increase happiness in the short term!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-many-single-women-without-children-are-so-happy?amp

This is one reason I like to spend time with mom friends and “wine aunt” friends.

Has a biological yearn for children, cites multimedia propaganda to “prove” she’s fine. She’s just fine. In fact, she’s happier than her friends with husbands and children!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marrying right after college is cool and smart. You should be in that mentality.

Sleeping around aka "dating" around is gross, unhealthy, and leads to mental despair.

Your laptop, PowerPoint, Excel, email job is not actually important.

Stop being an alcoholic.

Traveling is a time and money sink.

Your first two statements are harsh with a grain of truth and the third is definitely true.

The last statement.... I couldn't possibly disagree more. Travel early and often. Cheaply if you can. Apply for internships, stipends, study abroad, fellowships, short term jobs, ANYTHING and travel to far flung places in the world FOR FREE or cheaply. This is something you can basically only do in your 20s. Travel, travel, travel! Especially when the pandemic hit, I thanked all the stars that I said "YES" to so many opportunities when I was young. Because you never know what can happen. Pandemics, politics, kids, jobs, money. Adult problems. Use your youth to travel. Get lost on a city's public transit system, stay in a hostel, fumble around in a foreign language. Have adventures, DO IT!!!

Traveling while single (before marriage and babies) is a crutch to avoid reality, waste time, binge drink, eat tourist food, and waste money. Squandering your 20s away being a brainless consumer, seeking likes on instagram. Pointless.

You want to travel, do it in college, study abroad, and if you pursue an MBA, go ahead and take those trips with classmates. But these white collar women age 25 to 35 who think traveling is a personality or a substitute for a husband and kids are lost.

Well, maybe fore you. For many of us, it's a way to learn languages, build an international network, visit the Louvre and the Sistine Chapel, learn how to make sushi in Japan, cycle around Taiwan on innovative electric bamboo bikes, dance samba in Brazil with some of the most talented musicians on the planet, see India's Hyderabad transform itself into a global cyber hub from dust, and learn how to turn on every type of shower handle imaginable. Among other things.

And no, I didn't post any of that on Facebook or Instagram.

Unless you’re in the state department, you’re spinning yarn. A “network” of random hookups and passport stamps you think are social currency. When everyone your age is talking about their tween kids and you’re talking about trips, you look ridiculous. Sorry, just being frank.

Idk but if I’m at a party I would rather hear about their experiences trekking in Kyrgyzstan than about Larla’s band recital.

Sure sure. And everyone just loves the "cool" wine aunt (actually, they all secretly feel sorry for her).

I mean it varies. Some people find “epic” travel stories to be pretentious, other people think incessant taking about one’s kids to be boring. And I love my cool triathlete aunt who is childless (not be choice, sadly) who raises German Shepherds. My hunch is that more than one mommy in the hypothetical group appreciates the escapism of the Kyrgyzstan trekking stories as a break from all the Larlo, Larla, Larleigh extracurricular one-upsmanship.

I LOVE my childless friends. I love them for themselves, but also deeply appreciate how much they have to give because they aren’t burdened by their own kids. They sustained me through the difficult early parenthood years when they could visit with ease. I love my mom friends too, but my “wine aunt” friends are gold. Anyway women’s value is not defined by their status as wives and mothers, in case that needs to be said.

I am a dog lover who raises large dogs, kids (with tons of extra curricular activities, lol), had a career and loads of adventurous travel prior to SAHM with the kids. I guess I’ve had it all, just not at the same time. The trade-off in my case was having kids late (late 30s and 40s). Was lucky with fertility, needed no assistance.

Ok good for you? Life actually isn’t a menu to pick and choose from. My point is that childless women have just as much value as mothers. If you judge a woman based on having kids or not, you’re sexist full stop.

DP but of course childless women have value! I think the point of this thread is if you *do* want to have kids, you need to be working to put the infrastructure (a committed partner, gainful employment, etc.) in place by your mid twenties and not screwing around in dead end relationships and jobs. For some people it will work out just fine regardless, but you may have to compromise more on a partner later in life, and it may be harder to conceive.

OP frames this as women “wasting” their lives by not marrying and reproducing on schedule. That’s not about an impartial assessment of achieving goals … it’s mired, deeply, in sexism.

By on schedule you mean as God designed our bodies to do? Reproductive prime is 20s. That’s a fact. Wait until 30 and you’ll likely need all sort of doctors and $ and risks. Hope the random hookups, traveling and email job was worth it, girl boss.

30 is a great time to have kids. 10/10, would recommend.

[Anonymous]

If you already hate your job in your 20’s you will hate it in your 30s and beyond. Change careers/ take another path now when stakes are lower! As for men, don’t equate sex with closeness when you are not in an exclusive relationship. ill piggy back off of someone’s comment- don’t pick a female dominated profession for work (hard to meet men that way) and they are usually a low paying drudgery or you cap out quickly in terms of pay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marrying right after college is cool and smart. You should be in that mentality.

Sleeping around aka "dating" around is gross, unhealthy, and leads to mental despair.

Your laptop, PowerPoint, Excel, email job is not actually important.

Stop being an alcoholic.

Traveling is a time and money sink.

Your first two statements are harsh with a grain of truth and the third is definitely true.

The last statement.... I couldn't possibly disagree more. Travel early and often. Cheaply if you can. Apply for internships, stipends, study abroad, fellowships, short term jobs, ANYTHING and travel to far flung places in the world FOR FREE or cheaply. This is something you can basically only do in your 20s. Travel, travel, travel! Especially when the pandemic hit, I thanked all the stars that I said "YES" to so many opportunities when I was young. Because you never know what can happen. Pandemics, politics, kids, jobs, money. Adult problems. Use your youth to travel. Get lost on a city's public transit system, stay in a hostel, fumble around in a foreign language. Have adventures, DO IT!!!

Traveling while single (before marriage and babies) is a crutch to avoid reality, waste time, binge drink, eat tourist food, and waste money. Squandering your 20s away being a brainless consumer, seeking likes on instagram. Pointless.

You want to travel, do it in college, study abroad, and if you pursue an MBA, go ahead and take those trips with classmates. But these white collar women age 25 to 35 who think traveling is a personality or a substitute for a husband and kids are lost.

Well, maybe fore you. For many of us, it's a way to learn languages, build an international network, visit the Louvre and the Sistine Chapel, learn how to make sushi in Japan, cycle around Taiwan on innovative electric bamboo bikes, dance samba in Brazil with some of the most talented musicians on the planet, see India's Hyderabad transform itself into a global cyber hub from dust, and learn how to turn on every type of shower handle imaginable. Among other things.

And no, I didn't post any of that on Facebook or Instagram.

Unless you’re in the state department, you’re spinning yarn. A “network” of random hookups and passport stamps you think are social currency. When everyone your age is talking about their tween kids and you’re talking about trips, you look ridiculous. Sorry, just being frank.

Idk but if I’m at a party I would rather hear about their experiences trekking in Kyrgyzstan than about Larla’s band recital.

Sure sure. And everyone just loves the "cool" wine aunt (actually, they all secretly feel sorry for her).

I mean it varies. Some people find “epic” travel stories to be pretentious, other people think incessant taking about one’s kids to be boring. And I love my cool triathlete aunt who is childless (not be choice, sadly) who raises German Shepherds. My hunch is that more than one mommy in the hypothetical group appreciates the escapism of the Kyrgyzstan trekking stories as a break from all the Larlo, Larla, Larleigh extracurricular one-upsmanship.

I LOVE my childless friends. I love them for themselves, but also deeply appreciate how much they have to give because they aren’t burdened by their own kids. They sustained me through the difficult early parenthood years when they could visit with ease. I love my mom friends too, but my “wine aunt” friends are gold. Anyway women’s value is not defined by their status as wives and mothers, in case that needs to be said.

I am a dog lover who raises large dogs, kids (with tons of extra curricular activities, lol), had a career and loads of adventurous travel prior to SAHM with the kids. I guess I’ve had it all, just not at the same time. The trade-off in my case was having kids late (late 30s and 40s). Was lucky with fertility, needed no assistance.

Ok good for you? Life actually isn’t a menu to pick and choose from. My point is that childless women have just as much value as mothers. If you judge a woman based on having kids or not, you’re sexist full stop.

DP but of course childless women have value! I think the point of this thread is if you *do* want to have kids, you need to be working to put the infrastructure (a committed partner, gainful employment, etc.) in place by your mid twenties and not screwing around in dead end relationships and jobs. For some people it will work out just fine regardless, but you may have to compromise more on a partner later in life, and it may be harder to conceive.

OP frames this as women “wasting” their lives by not marrying and reproducing on schedule. That’s not about an impartial assessment of achieving goals … it’s mired, deeply, in sexism.

By on schedule you mean as God designed our bodies to do? Reproductive prime is 20s. That’s a fact. Wait until 30 and you’ll likely need all sort of doctors and $ and risks. Hope the random hookups, traveling and email job was worth it, girl boss.

God didn’t design my body. Yeesh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking they have all the time in the world to work on the personal life piece: home and family. No, you don't. Time moves very, very quickly. Society loves to lie to you every day.

+1000. You will wake up one day and be 30 and will wonder what the hell happened.

Childfree women are the happiest demographic.

Right? Guarantee that there are more married 40 year old women w kids waking up and wondering what the hell happened to their lives I don’t discuss this with my childless friends directly, but I’m fairly sure they consider themselves pretty darn lucky in many ways to be in their positions.

I think people who are doing what they truly want in life are pretty happy . So if you truly wanted kids and a spouse and didn't just do it because you thought you should you're probably happy. Same if you didn't want to be a mom and spouse. Conversely if you did want marriage and kids and it didn't happen you're probably not so happy. Or if you had those kids and have a spouse but regret it you're probably unhappy.

Bringing it back to the original topic the best thing a woman can learn her own mind as soon as possible. Figure out what she wants in life. Not her parents, friends, social media, her boyfriend etc. What she wants and pursue it fervently.

Nah. I very much wanted kids. But kids are a huge financial and personal stressor. They do not increase happiness in the short term!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-many-single-women-without-children-are-so-happy?amp

This is one reason I like to spend time with mom friends and “wine aunt” friends.

Has a biological yearn for children, cites multimedia propaganda to “prove” she’s fine. She’s just fine. In fact, she’s happier than her friends with husbands and children!

You know, I really don’t get this attitude. My childless friends are authentically happy. Some of them would have wanted kids but it didn’t happen. That’s the way life works. Being on a tear to prove that childless women are miserable harpies is something you’re saying about yourself, not them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretending for a moment this is not another incel thread.
What makes any of you think your dating advice from 20 to 40 years ago is at all relevant to women 25 and younger?

I'll bite. Because the gist of what makes for a good relationship did not change in 20-40 years. The types of guys that women waste their time on got updated to the modern sensibilities, but the essence is the same. The guy who'll never marry you because his parents don't approve is still there, although the reasons for disapproval might be different. And so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are both 24, been together for 2 years, both working, one going to grad school next year. Should you insist on engagement before moving with him to new town or wait until he finishes school?

This was us. Yes, I insisted on a ring and finished school. Married 19 years now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to second the poster who said therapy. I came from a messed up family. My mental health was really dragging my “package” down. Getting my embryonal house in order was crucial in attracting better quality guys.

+3 but will add, I came from a wonderful family AND benefited from therapy in my early 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not get married + have kids. Travel, save your $, get a career + education.

I did all those things in my 20s. It doesn’t have to be either/or.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
By on schedule you mean as God designed our bodies to do? Reproductive prime is 20s. That’s a fact. Wait until 30 and you’ll likely need all sort of doctors and $ and risks. Hope the random hookups, traveling and email job was worth it, girl boss.

We were 30 when we started trying and spent the next several years constantly pregnant. The only doctor we needed was for a vasectomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking they have all the time in the world to work on the personal life piece: home and family. No, you don't. Time moves very, very quickly. Society loves to lie to you every day.

+1000. You will wake up one day and be 30 and will wonder what the hell happened.

Childfree women are the happiest demographic.

Right? Guarantee that there are more married 40 year old women w kids waking up and wondering what the hell happened to their lives I don’t discuss this with my childless friends directly, but I’m fairly sure they consider themselves pretty darn lucky in many ways to be in their positions.

I think people who are doing what they truly want in life are pretty happy . So if you truly wanted kids and a spouse and didn't just do it because you thought you should you're probably happy. Same if you didn't want to be a mom and spouse. Conversely if you did want marriage and kids and it didn't happen you're probably not so happy. Or if you had those kids and have a spouse but regret it you're probably unhappy.

Bringing it back to the original topic the best thing a woman can learn her own mind as soon as possible. Figure out what she wants in life. Not her parents, friends, social media, her boyfriend etc. What she wants and pursue it fervently.

Nah. I very much wanted kids. But kids are a huge financial and personal stressor. They do not increase happiness in the short term!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-many-single-women-without-children-are-so-happy?amp

This is one reason I like to spend time with mom friends and “wine aunt” friends.

Has a biological yearn for children, cites multimedia propaganda to “prove” she’s fine. She’s just fine. In fact, she’s happier than her friends with husbands and children!

Yikes

[Anonymous]

Why do men waste their 20s traveling, having random hookups, getting useless degrees?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marrying right after college is cool and smart. You should be in that mentality.

Sleeping around aka "dating" around is gross, unhealthy, and leads to mental despair.

Your laptop, PowerPoint, Excel, email job is not actually important.

Stop being an alcoholic.

Traveling is a time and money sink.

Your first two statements are harsh with a grain of truth and the third is definitely true.

The last statement.... I couldn't possibly disagree more. Travel early and often. Cheaply if you can. Apply for internships, stipends, study abroad, fellowships, short term jobs, ANYTHING and travel to far flung places in the world FOR FREE or cheaply. This is something you can basically only do in your 20s. Travel, travel, travel! Especially when the pandemic hit, I thanked all the stars that I said "YES" to so many opportunities when I was young. Because you never know what can happen. Pandemics, politics, kids, jobs, money. Adult problems. Use your youth to travel. Get lost on a city's public transit system, stay in a hostel, fumble around in a foreign language. Have adventures, DO IT!!!

Traveling while single (before marriage and babies) is a crutch to avoid reality, waste time, binge drink, eat tourist food, and waste money. Squandering your 20s away being a brainless consumer, seeking likes on instagram. Pointless.

You want to travel, do it in college, study abroad, and if you pursue an MBA, go ahead and take those trips with classmates. But these white collar women age 25 to 35 who think traveling is a personality or a substitute for a husband and kids are lost.

Well, maybe fore you. For many of us, it's a way to learn languages, build an international network, visit the Louvre and the Sistine Chapel, learn how to make sushi in Japan, cycle around Taiwan on innovative electric bamboo bikes, dance samba in Brazil with some of the most talented musicians on the planet, see India's Hyderabad transform itself into a global cyber hub from dust, and learn how to turn on every type of shower handle imaginable. Among other things.

And no, I didn't post any of that on Facebook or Instagram.

Unless you’re in the state department, you’re spinning yarn. A “network” of random hookups and passport stamps you think are social currency. When everyone your age is talking about their tween kids and you’re talking about trips, you look ridiculous. Sorry, just being frank.

Idk but if I’m at a party I would rather hear about their experiences trekking in Kyrgyzstan than about Larla’s band recital.

Sure sure. And everyone just loves the "cool" wine aunt (actually, they all secretly feel sorry for her).

I mean it varies. Some people find “epic” travel stories to be pretentious, other people think incessant taking about one’s kids to be boring. And I love my cool triathlete aunt who is childless (not be choice, sadly) who raises German Shepherds. My hunch is that more than one mommy in the hypothetical group appreciates the escapism of the Kyrgyzstan trekking stories as a break from all the Larlo, Larla, Larleigh extracurricular one-upsmanship.

I LOVE my childless friends. I love them for themselves, but also deeply appreciate how much they have to give because they aren’t burdened by their own kids. They sustained me through the difficult early parenthood years when they could visit with ease. I love my mom friends too, but my “wine aunt” friends are gold. Anyway women’s value is not defined by their status as wives and mothers, in case that needs to be said.

I am a dog lover who raises large dogs, kids (with tons of extra curricular activities, lol), had a career and loads of adventurous travel prior to SAHM with the kids. I guess I’ve had it all, just not at the same time. The trade-off in my case was having kids late (late 30s and 40s). Was lucky with fertility, needed no assistance.

Ok good for you? Life actually isn’t a menu to pick and choose from. My point is that childless women have just as much value as mothers. If you judge a woman based on having kids or not, you’re sexist full stop.

DP but of course childless women have value! I think the point of this thread is if you *do* want to have kids, you need to be working to put the infrastructure (a committed partner, gainful employment, etc.) in place by your mid twenties and not screwing around in dead end relationships and jobs. For some people it will work out just fine regardless, but you may have to compromise more on a partner later in life, and it may be harder to conceive.

I think that's the fallacy, actually. Some people find a great partner young, and if they want early marriage and early kids then they should go for it. But many people aren't fully formed in their early 20s. They don't know who they are let alone what they want out of the next 60 years, if they're lucky, of life. It's just not true that you're only going to meet an acceptable partner when you are 18-21 years old or whatever. At that age you are going to meet a lot of people who are still developing. If you are older, you meet people who are further into their own lives - and you probably have a better sense of who you are, and who they are.

It's easy if all you want is someone who checks a few boxes. It's less easy if you want more than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't move in with a man unless you are engaged or know that engagement is in the near future. It's much harder to leave once you're living together.

How do you know engagement is in the near future? Are you proposing to him?

DP. Women are starting to propose.

Cmon now. You know the people posting these weird rules also do not believe in a woman proposing.