How often do you think applicants lie about their race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always check black. There's literally nothing they can do. It's not a crime. You can IDENTIFY with whatever you want. An actual crime is if you were to try to scam financial aid.

I’ve heard that many colleges, especially top ones, will fly black applicants to campus and introduce them to black students to encourage the applicants to accept admission. Gonna be pretty awkward for your kid Whitey McWhiteboy when he gets to campus and attends the African American student reception.

“Yo, my bruthas… I was born a poor black child!”

They don’t have to accept the offer
My child got an invite as a low income child to a charity event where he would be with other kids from his school who are low income. We didn’t go because it’s no one’s business if he is low income other than the school admin and I don’t want judgment since we don’t look like typical low income people but we are
-DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

You are probably not following the Supreme Court case.
College admissions offices are deliberately lowering percentage of a group of people with bullshit insulting scores on kindness courage likability.

It's the 21st century. We don't need racism in the academic fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This forum is way too consumed about race.

lol everything in America now (not just education but politics economics culture etc) is 100% all about race now. It’s exhausting!

you're "exhausted" hearing about race and racism, imagine actually have to be on the receiving end of it for your entire life, and daily in the form of micro-agression. we'd pick having to "hear discussions" any day! you guys are a trip! lol

I’m not white or East Asian and it is exhausting hearing about race In the us

Is europe more racist than the us - yeah, but honestly I prefer it to the racial discourse in the us

College admissions is more meritocratic, less violence, better food supply and trains

I am ok with the trade off that europe is too racist to ever elect a kid that looks like me as prime minister

In the us, the 24/7 racial discourse is a scam to distract people from the other issues

Europe doesn't have the same dialogue because they didn't import Black people, subjegate and enslave them, deny them rights for decades and continue to treat them like crap despite the fact their ancestors built the nation, literally, especially in the South. So Europe will NEVER Compare. The non-dominant race people in Europe have less "claim" and rights as Blacks and indegnous people who were literally slaughtered and forced to live on reservations. The history of racism is baked into the fabric of American soil and for that reason, it will always be an issue here. Also, in Europe, their brand of racism isn't as instiutitonalized and integrated as it is here in America.

Further, I dont' know about you but most people can pay attention to more than one thing at a time.

New poster--

No, Europe did not have slavery to the extent and duration the US did. They just colonized African countries and subjugated black people there.

Second, Europeans were very happy to enslave those black people and bring them to both North and South America to do as other Europeans wished.

Third, I'm not so sure racism in Europe is as benign as you think. Many countries just haven't the opportunity to interact with blacks that would lead the ignorant to develop an opinion. It will never be the same as racism in the US, but it's looking like it will be plenty ugly as those opportunities grow.

Finally, neither the US nor Europe can hold a candle to Asia when it comes to racism. No enslavement of other races, but most countries there won't even let other Asians whose families haven't been in their country for generations hold any positions of importance, let alone consider blacks, whites, etc. fit to be considered equals in society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This forum is way too consumed about race.

lol everything in America now (not just education but politics economics culture etc) is 100% all about race now. It’s exhausting!

you're "exhausted" hearing about race and racism, imagine actually have to be on the receiving end of it for your entire life, and daily in the form of micro-agression. we'd pick having to "hear discussions" any day! you guys are a trip! lol

I’m not white or East Asian and it is exhausting hearing about race In the us

Is europe more racist than the us - yeah, but honestly I prefer it to the racial discourse in the us

College admissions is more meritocratic, less violence, better food supply and trains

I am ok with the trade off that europe is too racist to ever elect a kid that looks like me as prime minister

In the us, the 24/7 racial discourse is a scam to distract people from the other issues

Europe doesn't have the same dialogue because they didn't import Black people, subjegate and enslave them, deny them rights for decades and continue to treat them like crap despite the fact their ancestors built the nation, literally, especially in the South. So Europe will NEVER Compare. The non-dominant race people in Europe have less "claim" and rights as Blacks and indegnous people who were literally slaughtered and forced to live on reservations. The history of racism is baked into the fabric of American soil and for that reason, it will always be an issue here. Also, in Europe, their brand of racism isn't as instiutitonalized and integrated as it is here in America.

Further, I dont' know about you but most people can pay attention to more than one thing at a time.

New poster--

No, Europe did not have slavery to the extent and duration the US did. They just colonized African countries and subjugated black people there.

Second, Europeans were very happy to enslave those black people and bring them to both North and South America to do as other Europeans wished.

Third, I'm not so sure racism in Europe is as benign as you think. Many countries just haven't the opportunity to interact with blacks that would lead the ignorant to develop an opinion. It will never be the same as racism in the US, but it's looking like it will be plenty ugly as those opportunities grow.

Finally, neither the US nor Europe can hold a candle to Asia when it comes to racism. No enslavement of other races, but most countries there won't even let other Asians whose families haven't been in their country for generations hold any positions of importance, let alone consider blacks, whites, etc. fit to be considered equals in society.

My kids didn’t own slaves. My ancestors were poor immigrants from Italy and Ireland who faced huge amounts of discrimination when they arrived in the US.

So why are they looked at less favorably in the admissions office exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

You are probably not following the Supreme Court case.
College admissions offices are deliberately lowering percentage of a group of people with bullshit insulting scores on kindness courage likability.

It's the 21st century. We don't need racism in the academic fields.

Regardless of what SCOTUS decides, what is happening is not 'racism'. For it to be racism, there would have to be hundreds of people in an admissions office colluding to exclude a specific group with every one of them capable of keeping the secret and none of them having the spine to go public. And those admissions offices include people of all races and backgrounds, and have people on staff whose job it is to ensure racism doesn't happen. And actually, it's thousands of people who would have to be keeping the secret, because while Harvard and UNC are named in lawsuits, the same thing is happening at all universities. Affirmative action may be found to be unconstitutional by this very biased court, but it is not a racist policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This forum is way too consumed about race.

lol everything in America now (not just education but politics economics culture etc) is 100% all about race now. It’s exhausting!

you're "exhausted" hearing about race and racism, imagine actually have to be on the receiving end of it for your entire life, and daily in the form of micro-agression. we'd pick having to "hear discussions" any day! you guys are a trip! lol

I’m not white or East Asian and it is exhausting hearing about race In the us

Is europe more racist than the us - yeah, but honestly I prefer it to the racial discourse in the us

College admissions is more meritocratic, less violence, better food supply and trains

I am ok with the trade off that europe is too racist to ever elect a kid that looks like me as prime minister

In the us, the 24/7 racial discourse is a scam to distract people from the other issues

Europe doesn't have the same dialogue because they didn't import Black people, subjegate and enslave them, deny them rights for decades and continue to treat them like crap despite the fact their ancestors built the nation, literally, especially in the South. So Europe will NEVER Compare. The non-dominant race people in Europe have less "claim" and rights as Blacks and indegnous people who were literally slaughtered and forced to live on reservations. The history of racism is baked into the fabric of American soil and for that reason, it will always be an issue here. Also, in Europe, their brand of racism isn't as instiutitonalized and integrated as it is here in America.

Further, I dont' know about you but most people can pay attention to more than one thing at a time.

New poster--

No, Europe did not have slavery to the extent and duration the US did. They just colonized African countries and subjugated black people there.

Second, Europeans were very happy to enslave those black people and bring them to both North and South America to do as other Europeans wished.

Third, I'm not so sure racism in Europe is as benign as you think. Many countries just haven't the opportunity to interact with blacks that would lead the ignorant to develop an opinion. It will never be the same as racism in the US, but it's looking like it will be plenty ugly as those opportunities grow.

Finally, neither the US nor Europe can hold a candle to Asia when it comes to racism. No enslavement of other races, but most countries there won't even let other Asians whose families haven't been in their country for generations hold any positions of importance, let alone consider blacks, whites, etc. fit to be considered equals in society.

not to mention the treatment of the Roma or Sami.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

You are probably not following the Supreme Court case.
College admissions offices are deliberately lowering percentage of a group of people with bullshit insulting scores on kindness courage likability.

It's the 21st century. We don't need racism in the academic fields.

Regardless of what SCOTUS decides, what is happening is not 'racism'. For it to be racism, there would have to be hundreds of people in an admissions office colluding to exclude a specific group with every one of them capable of keeping the secret and none of them having the spine to go public. And those admissions offices include people of all races and backgrounds, and have people on staff whose job it is to ensure racism doesn't happen. And actually, it's thousands of people who would have to be keeping the secret, because while Harvard and UNC are named in lawsuits, the same thing is happening at all universities. Affirmative action may be found to be unconstitutional by this very biased court, but it is not a racist policy.

It is absolutely possible, and even probable, that what we are seeing is racism. Yes, hundreds of people in admissions offices can definitely have a racist bias against Asians. We see it here in this forum all the time - the attitude that Asians are just boring grade-grubbers and exam-crammers. Admissions officers are very much in the DCUM demographic and I venture to guess that they think the same way.

Furthermore, you are ignoring unconscious bias and systemic racism. Don't you believe those are actual things? I bet that if you do, you think they only operate against blacks, but it is very obvious they operate against Asians in this case.

Last but not least, the courts have found in other cases that it doesn't even matter if there isn't a conscious, racist conspiracy. If your practices have a disproportionately adverse effect on a minority even though your rules are formally race-neutral then you are discriminating by race and that is wrong. And there is no doubt that current admissions practices have a disproportionately adverse effect on Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

"Racism against one race in order to help another race is not racism, ackshually." WTF, do you even believe this illogical nonsense? Sad to say you probably do.

And oh by the way, in college admissions, they are very clearly deliberately excluding Asians. They know they're doing it, and they are busy inventing specious justifications for it - much as you are doing here.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

LOL do you realize you just entirely destroyed the basis for affirmative action? If it doesn't do anyone harm not to be admitted to a selective college, then that precise logic certainly applies to African-Americans. They can go to a less-selective college and get the education they need. They'll do fine, right? Oh wait, you meant that it's only the Asians who have to suck it up and go to a lesser college? Hmmm I dare say the Asians might not agree with that racist idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

You are probably not following the Supreme Court case.
College admissions offices are deliberately lowering percentage of a group of people with bullshit insulting scores on kindness courage likability.

It's the 21st century. We don't need racism in the academic fields.

Regardless of what SCOTUS decides, what is happening is not 'racism'. For it to be racism, there would have to be hundreds of people in an admissions office colluding to exclude a specific group with every one of them capable of keeping the secret and none of them having the spine to go public. And those admissions offices include people of all races and backgrounds, and have people on staff whose job it is to ensure racism doesn't happen. And actually, it's thousands of people who would have to be keeping the secret, because while Harvard and UNC are named in lawsuits, the same thing is happening at all universities. Affirmative action may be found to be unconstitutional by this very biased court, but it is not a racist policy.

Nope. It's is definitively systematic institutional racism. It's really disgusting and must be stopped.
Noting is wrong with having 50% 56% 70% Asians. There are plenty of colleges with 80% Blacks or 70% Whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody gets admitted because of race. It's not a bump. Don't believe it. If there's a toss up between equals and a college realizes their students all are alike, then maybe on occasion given all other things equal someone might get a second look, but all things are equal so it's just the luck of teh draw at that point. Even lying about about race for a scholarship only puts you in the hunt, you're still competing against others on stats. Nobody gets a scholarship just because they are of a certain race, they simply might qualify for it. Even the most diverse colleges fall many percentages points under the representative average of most races, especially Black and Brown.

Total BS. Race is critical in admissions to top 20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

You are probably not following the Supreme Court case.
College admissions offices are deliberately lowering percentage of a group of people with bullshit insulting scores on kindness courage likability.

It's the 21st century. We don't need racism in the academic fields.

Regardless of what SCOTUS decides, what is happening is not 'racism'. For it to be racism, there would have to be hundreds of people in an admissions office colluding to exclude a specific group with every one of them capable of keeping the secret and none of them having the spine to go public. And those admissions offices include people of all races and backgrounds, and have people on staff whose job it is to ensure racism doesn't happen. And actually, it's thousands of people who would have to be keeping the secret, because while Harvard and UNC are named in lawsuits, the same thing is happening at all universities. Affirmative action may be found to be unconstitutional by this very biased court, but it is not a racist policy.

Nope. It's is definitively systematic institutional racism. It's really disgusting and must be stopped.
Noting is wrong with having 50% 56% 70% Asians. There are plenty of colleges with 80% Blacks or 70% Whites.

Be careful what you wish for

researcher Anthony Carnevale found that using wealth alongside other socioeconomic factors boosted racial diversity. He found that if admissions officers rewarded “strivers” who overcame obstacles, including low wealth, then “Black and Hispanic enrollments would actually be higher than they had been under affirmative action with racial preferences.”


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/02/supreme-court-affirmative-action-wealth-admissions-factor.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

"Racism against one race in order to help another race is not racism, ackshually." WTF, do you even believe this illogical nonsense? Sad to say you probably do.

And oh by the way, in college admissions, they are very clearly deliberately excluding Asians. They know they're doing it, and they are busy inventing specious justifications for it - much as you are doing here.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

LOL do you realize you just entirely destroyed the basis for affirmative action? If it doesn't do anyone harm not to be admitted to a selective college, then that precise logic certainly applies to African-Americans. They can go to a less-selective college and get the education they need. They'll do fine, right? Oh wait, you meant that it's only the Asians who have to suck it up and go to a lesser college? Hmmm I dare say the Asians might not agree with that racist idea.

Your definition of 'racism' is not accurate, so there's no point in arguing with you.

You are correct that blacks can be just as successful going to a less selective school and that the elimination of AA will thus not do them harm, but that's not the point. Harvard and all the other highly selective colleges believe they can deliver a better education to their students by having a balanced student body with a wide diversity of experiences, and my opinion is that they should be allowed to choose who they admit with that goal guiding their process. If that means including some people because their race has led to their not having had the same privileges as others, it should be allowed. I understand that SCOTUS may disagree.

You seem unlikely to believe me, but I value what people of all backgrounds have to offer to our world.

Your nasty tone is not one I want to interact with any more beyond this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who lies about their race or anything else on a college application or job application or whatever is giving up way more than they're gaining. Why would anyone give up their integrity for ANY reason, let alone one that will make no difference in their future happiness or success?

Colleges should not discriminate based on race in the first place.
That's evil.

So basically, "I don't like what I perceive someone else to be doing, so I can do whatever I want in response."

That kind of rationale has led to all sorts of evil through the ages.

Whereas “others do evil to me but I do nothing in response” only leads to good outcomes for the victims. 🙄

Fair point. What I should have said is that you're wrong about colleges discriminating on the basis of race, if you're defining 'discriminating' as deliberate exclusion. There are no evil plans being executed by admissions offices.

So discrimination is totally fine if it’s the obvious byproduct of a policy?

'Discrimination' is used in different ways by different people and in different situations. If you're using the word to mean deliberate exclusion of a group of people by college admissions offices, then you're wrong. To be more specific, fewer people of one race being admitted to a college as a byproduct of another race being given some preference due to horrific mistreatment historically is not a racist policy. It's the natural outcome in a zero-sum game.

"Racism against one race in order to help another race is not racism, ackshually." WTF, do you even believe this illogical nonsense? Sad to say you probably do.

And oh by the way, in college admissions, they are very clearly deliberately excluding Asians. They know they're doing it, and they are busy inventing specious justifications for it - much as you are doing here.

It's moot anyway. Not being admitted to any given college isn't doing anyone any harm. The slightly less selective college they get into is just as capable of giving them the education they need.

LOL do you realize you just entirely destroyed the basis for affirmative action? If it doesn't do anyone harm not to be admitted to a selective college, then that precise logic certainly applies to African-Americans. They can go to a less-selective college and get the education they need. They'll do fine, right? Oh wait, you meant that it's only the Asians who have to suck it up and go to a lesser college? Hmmm I dare say the Asians might not agree with that racist idea.

Your definition of 'racism' is not accurate, so there's no point in arguing with you.

You are correct that blacks can be just as successful going to a less selective school and that the elimination of AA will thus not do them harm, but that's not the point. Harvard and all the other highly selective colleges believe they can deliver a better education to their students by having a balanced student body with a wide diversity of experiences, and my opinion is that they should be allowed to choose who they admit with that goal guiding their process. If that means including some people because their race has led to their not having had the same privileges as others, it should be allowed. I understand that SCOTUS may disagree.

You seem unlikely to believe me, but I value what people of all backgrounds have to offer to our world.

Your nasty tone is not one I want to interact with any more beyond this post.

DP. A private enterprise should be allowed to do what they want.. e.g. Deny making you a cake because they don't like something about you, admit who they want because they feel like it, etc. However, to qualify as such an enterprise, you should also be paying your dues, for example, taxes. All of these 'non profit' institutions are mooching off my $. I subsidize them and therefore I absolutely get to have a say in what they do and how they go about doing it. Don't like it, go 'For Profit', pay full taxes. Be a 'man'!

[Anonymous]

Is anyone lying about being white or asian? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone lying about being white or asian? No.

Heads explode