Option H is permanent and the old Wootton HS campus will be closed for good?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you Wootton crazies - just shut up

I'm more concerned about the Regional magnets and looks like this thread keeps getting longer and longer and bumped so the rest of us will forget about that.

Actually I have questions about H and regional magnets. Under any other option A-F, Crown (with its state-of-the-art labs) is in region 5. Under H, Crown/Wootton (whatever you call it) is under region 4.

How do we feel about option H handing a brand new amazing STEM centric school to a region that is already well-resourced over the under-resourced Gaithersburg community that is also overcrowded.

Do we care that Option H completely screws over Gaithersburg?

For all the people who say they are pro H to diversify Wootton, please do tell—how can you support an option that “steals” a school meant for a community of lower income and less resourced and hands it over to the privileged folks of Rockville and Potomac?

The cognitive dissonance doesn't make sense. Either Wootton is rich and privileged - doesn't deserve a new building, or Wootton is being given a "gift" that it should be forced to take for the good of MCPS. Which is it?

It's really not that complicated once you stop being deliberately obtuse. While people might disagree on relative priority, most would agree Wootton is nearing the end of its functional lifespan and will soon need a major renovation or to be rebuilt.

The people opposed to H don't want to stick with current Wootton building. They instead want MCPS to build them a school that the district doesn't actually need because they think it will help their property values.

So let’s say we give Wootton this brand new school. Again for the countless time: do we care or don’t care that H moves Crown/Wootton to region 4? Do we care or don’t care that this would give all the brand new, state of art labs and resources to Rockville and Potomac residents (Wootton, Churchill, RM) when this was supposed to be for under-resourced yet over populated Gaithersburg?

PP, by your own logic, MCPS is giving H to “privileged” parents of Wootton. How do you feel about the entire Gaithersburg community losing access to Crown, when every other option A-G gives Crown to Region 5?

Longer-term, it isn't good for Region 5 to have MCPS paying for a high school that it doesn't need.

Even longer term, it isn’t good for anyone in the school system for MCPS to spend money breaking ground on a new school it doesn’t need, use faulty enrollment numbers, not renovate another school that they have neglected for decades, and then instead of fixing the neglected school, punishes it by closing it altogether.

If we’re talking about the long term, pretty sure setting an unlawful precedent is worse.

Strongly disagree. Circumstances and data change. When a previous decision is no longer justified by the current situation and data, or (gasp!) if that decision was made in error, and there is still an opportunity to make a better decision, we should take it. Blindly continuing down a wasteful path due to a decision made 20 years ago would be the awful precedent.

It's absurd to characterize option H as "punishing" people in the Wootton zone. We know in the short-to-moderate term we would need a new building for Wootton. And we just so happen to have an available building just 2.3 miles away.

So you’re suggesting that Wootton get 100% of the former Crown and Taylor agrees not to move 500+ GHS kids into the new Wootton? This would make sense if MCPS is correct that the numbers don’t support a new high school at Crown anymore. However, I wonder how GHS parents would feel about MCPS “stealing” their new school and giving it to Wootton. Oh wait, we already know this from the hearings last week.

If you’re saying that Wootton has to move AND has to absorb kids through a boundary change, then you’re creating a new school and closing the old Wootton.

You can play with semantics all you like, but a judge is unlikely to agree, at least in the short term due to irreparable harm to Wootton families. MCPS doesn’t want this situation anywhere near a courtroom because it would be forced to open Crown with only 500 GHS kids. Any more kids than that and MCPS can’t close Wootton and move it to Crown.

By my read school closure under the regulations means the literal facility- "permanently ceasing to use it for educational purposes". It basically means a "negative one" facility for educational purposes. There aren't established facts to show that is happening here.

The currently empty Rock Terrace school in Rockville did not go through closure proceedings. Nor did any of the other buildings currently being used as holding schools.

Multiple school buildings stop being used over the years. Some reopened like Woodward and Northwood, others like Leland and became something else.

PP here. Thank you for adding additional examples. All of these, as far as my internet research can tell me, did not follow closure procedures, presumably because there was not a plan to permanently stop using them for educational purposes.

Can you cite to the statutory or regulatory definition of “closure”? Or are you making up that definition?

There is no definition in the statute or regulations. So here is how I got there:

1. I found implementing policies in Howard County, Baltimore County, and another that refer to "permanent closure of a school [i]building[u]. One of them clearly defines it as "The purpose of this policy is to direct the process of discontinuing school use when there is no plan to replace the school with another facility." MCPS' policy on the topic is under the heading of "Educational Facilities Planning"

This led me to conclude that it was about a physical facility, and there being one less of them.

2. I then thought of examples where I knew a school facility is no longer being used as a full-time regular school and did a search of MCPS records (admittedly I spent less than an hour) to see if there was evidence that they were categorized as a "school closure" and whether those procedures were followed. I found no such evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you Wootton crazies - just shut up

I'm more concerned about the Regional magnets and looks like this thread keeps getting longer and longer and bumped so the rest of us will forget about that.

Actually I have questions about H and regional magnets. Under any other option A-F, Crown (with its state-of-the-art labs) is in region 5. Under H, Crown/Wootton (whatever you call it) is under region 4.

How do we feel about option H handing a brand new amazing STEM centric school to a region that is already well-resourced over the under-resourced Gaithersburg community that is also overcrowded.

Do we care that Option H completely screws over Gaithersburg?

For all the people who say they are pro H to diversify Wootton, please do tell—how can you support an option that “steals” a school meant for a community of lower income and less resourced and hands it over to the privileged folks of Rockville and Potomac?

The cognitive dissonance doesn't make sense. Either Wootton is rich and privileged - doesn't deserve a new building, or Wootton is being given a "gift" that it should be forced to take for the good of MCPS. Which is it?

It's really not that complicated once you stop being deliberately obtuse. While people might disagree on relative priority, most would agree Wootton is nearing the end of its functional lifespan and will soon need a major renovation or to be rebuilt.

The people opposed to H don't want to stick with current Wootton building. They instead want MCPS to build them a school that the district doesn't actually need because they think it will help their property values.

So let’s say we give Wootton this brand new school. Again for the countless time: do we care or don’t care that H moves Crown/Wootton to region 4? Do we care or don’t care that this would give all the brand new, state of art labs and resources to Rockville and Potomac residents (Wootton, Churchill, RM) when this was supposed to be for under-resourced yet over populated Gaithersburg?

PP, by your own logic, MCPS is giving H to “privileged” parents of Wootton. How do you feel about the entire Gaithersburg community losing access to Crown, when every other option A-G gives Crown to Region 5?

Longer-term, it isn't good for Region 5 to have MCPS paying for a high school that it doesn't need.

Even longer term, it isn’t good for anyone in the school system for MCPS to spend money breaking ground on a new school it doesn’t need, use faulty enrollment numbers, not renovate another school that they have neglected for decades, and then instead of fixing the neglected school, punishes it by closing it altogether.

If we’re talking about the long term, pretty sure setting an unlawful precedent is worse.

Strongly disagree. Circumstances and data change. When a previous decision is no longer justified by the current situation and data, or (gasp!) if that decision was made in error, and there is still an opportunity to make a better decision, we should take it. Blindly continuing down a wasteful path due to a decision made 20 years ago would be the awful precedent.

It's absurd to characterize option H as "punishing" people in the Wootton zone. We know in the short-to-moderate term we would need a new building for Wootton. And we just so happen to have an available building just 2.3 miles away.

So you’re suggesting that Wootton get 100% of the former Crown and Taylor agrees not to move 500+ GHS kids into the new Wootton? This would make sense if MCPS is correct that the numbers don’t support a new high school at Crown anymore. However, I wonder how GHS parents would feel about MCPS “stealing” their new school and giving it to Wootton. Oh wait, we already know this from the hearings last week.

If you’re saying that Wootton has to move AND has to absorb kids through a boundary change, then you’re creating a new school and closing the old Wootton.

You can play with semantics all you like, but a judge is unlikely to agree, at least in the short term due to irreparable harm to Wootton families. MCPS doesn’t want this situation anywhere near a courtroom because it would be forced to open Crown with only 500 GHS kids. Any more kids than that and MCPS can’t close Wootton and move it to Crown.

By my read school closure under the regulations means the literal facility- "permanently ceasing to use it for educational purposes". It basically means a "negative one" facility for educational purposes. There aren't established facts to show that is happening here.

The currently empty Rock Terrace school in Rockville did not go through closure proceedings. Nor did any of the other buildings currently being used as holding schools.

Multiple school buildings stop being used over the years. Some reopened like Woodward and Northwood, others like Leland and became something else.

PP here. Thank you for adding additional examples. All of these, as far as my internet research can tell me, did not follow closure procedures, presumably because there was not a plan to permanently stop using them for educational purposes.

And for the last time, no one in those cases cared enough to pursue it in court. In some of those cases (Blair) it was welcomed by the community.

If no one cares enough to pursue it in court, even if it’s illegal, it’s a harmless legal error.

Stop comparing Wootton to all these other schools on closure, because I can assure you Wootton will sue. They will be ready the moment H is passed.

I perceive a tone in your response that doesn't need to be there. I am genuinely interested in whether this counts as a closure and therefore whether any lawsuit would ultimately be successful. I'm not taking a position on whether Option H is a good idea, or should be objected to on other grounds. I'm comparing Wootton because that is exactly what a court would do.

Certainly, sue. And I don't doubt that a lawsuit would delay any action. So if that is the objective, it will likely be achieved. No doubt.

But I'm interested in the merits.

Not PP but I’ll respond.
The thing is nothing like this has ever happened in the county. Sure there had been boundary studies and school closures, but not all entangled together. Throw in other entanglements like CIP, land grants, and it gets even messier and more unique.

Yes, courts look at precedent, but the fact pattern here is too different. We really can’t compare this case to anything MCPS has done in the past. It’s the perfect storm of so many things happening converging all at once—things that typically do not converge.

I really don’t know how a court will rule. There are arguments on both sides. But I think there are enough merits that the case won’t be tossed out and that the most likely possibility is the court issuing an injunction.

Do MCPS and the Wootton families have the appetite for a long legal battle? No idea. But this may be a part of MCPS calculus. Maybe they won’t pick H because they want to avoid this mess. EFG would create lawsuits. Or maybe, they think the parents won’t actually sue or that if they do, they will spend more money and outlast them. I can’t answer those questions. I’m just saying, the legal question can’t be answered by precedent, which makes this the exact type of case for courts to intervene.

Meant to say EFG won’t create lawsuits*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Gaithersburg resident, I am saddened by this entire thread. I am opposed to H but for completely different reasons.

This thread and the larger conversation is dominated by parents wealthy enough to sue vs. people who aren’t impacted by the decision, don’t have skin in the game, don’t live in the affected areas, etc.

No one cares about Gaithersburg.
No one cares that they are giving away a brand new school to a community that doesn’t even want it.
No one cares that there are kids in our community who are walkable to Crown, who can see Crown from their house, yet won’t be able to attend under H.
No one cares that H means not only do the kids referenced above lose access to Crown, but so does the entire region 5.

Has anyone considered how H impacts people in Gaithersburg, especially when we don’t have the resources to sue? Most of us can’t even attend BOE meetings because we are working families. A meeting at 12 PM or the upcoming 4 PM is ridiculous.

Why did the new options even come up? A-D were the only options that gave Gaithersburg a voice. Is it really because Churchill sued? If suing is the only way to get MCPS to listen, then I say have at it Wootton…go sue MCPS.

H does not benefit Gaithersburg, but again nobody cares about us.

Are you the one who guided kids to make that “They don’t really care about us” video?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you Wootton crazies - just shut up

I'm more concerned about the Regional magnets and looks like this thread keeps getting longer and longer and bumped so the rest of us will forget about that.

Actually I have questions about H and regional magnets. Under any other option A-F, Crown (with its state-of-the-art labs) is in region 5. Under H, Crown/Wootton (whatever you call it) is under region 4.

How do we feel about option H handing a brand new amazing STEM centric school to a region that is already well-resourced over the under-resourced Gaithersburg community that is also overcrowded.

Do we care that Option H completely screws over Gaithersburg?

That is not what the shared documents said - STEM magnet will be in Gaithersburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you Wootton crazies - just shut up

I'm more concerned about the Regional magnets and looks like this thread keeps getting longer and longer and bumped so the rest of us will forget about that.

Actually I have questions about H and regional magnets. Under any other option A-F, Crown (with its state-of-the-art labs) is in region 5. Under H, Crown/Wootton (whatever you call it) is under region 4.

How do we feel about option H handing a brand new amazing STEM centric school to a region that is already well-resourced over the under-resourced Gaithersburg community that is also overcrowded.

Do we care that Option H completely screws over Gaithersburg?

That is not what the shared documents said - STEM magnet will be in Gaithersburg.

As I noted earlier, I misspoke and meant a not THE STEM program. Crown is slated to house the Medical/Healthcare track in Region 5 in all options except H

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Gaithersburg resident, I am saddened by this entire thread. I am opposed to H but for completely different reasons.

This thread and the larger conversation is dominated by parents wealthy enough to sue vs. people who aren’t impacted by the decision, don’t have skin in the game, don’t live in the affected areas, etc.

No one cares about Gaithersburg.
No one cares that they are giving away a brand new school to a community that doesn’t even want it.
No one cares that there are kids in our community who are walkable to Crown, who can see Crown from their house, yet won’t be able to attend under H.
No one cares that H means not only do the kids referenced above lose access to Crown, but so does the entire region 5.

Has anyone considered how H impacts people in Gaithersburg, especially when we don’t have the resources to sue? Most of us can’t even attend BOE meetings because we are working families. A meeting at 12 PM or the upcoming 4 PM is ridiculous.

Why did the new options even come up? A-D were the only options that gave Gaithersburg a voice. Is it really because Churchill sued? If suing is the only way to get MCPS to listen, then I say have at it Wootton…go sue MCPS.

H does not benefit Gaithersburg, but again nobody cares about us.

Are you the one who guided kids to make that “They don’t really care about us” video?

No I was not personally involved in the making of the music video but I 100% agree with the video.

[Anonymous]

Will 6 regional programs proceed without any rejection/modification and effective 2027-2028?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you Wootton crazies - just shut up

I'm more concerned about the Regional magnets and looks like this thread keeps getting longer and longer and bumped so the rest of us will forget about that.

Actually I have questions about H and regional magnets. Under any other option A-F, Crown (with its state-of-the-art labs) is in region 5. Under H, Crown/Wootton (whatever you call it) is under region 4.

How do we feel about option H handing a brand new amazing STEM centric school to a region that is already well-resourced over the under-resourced Gaithersburg community that is also overcrowded.

Do we care that Option H completely screws over Gaithersburg?

Is Crown supposed to host the STEM program in Region 5?

Yes, in options A-G, according to MCPS Crown is to host region 5’s STEM program. Wootton is supposed to do the same for region 4. So in option H, Crown becomes Wootton and is given to region 4. Region 5 gets screwed in H.

This is before Option H, but has it at Gaithersburg?
https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DMJHXR4AA9BD/$file/Boundary%20Studies%20Program%20Analysis%20Update%20251016%20PPT%20REV.pdf

All other options have Crown in 5.

Option H plainly shows Crown/Wootton is transferred to 4: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1645soUgcpJOZ4cH8qfKx4Wl-EH8KNIoO/view?usp=drivesdk

They should just put the STEM in QO and healthcare and medical sciences and anything else that was there at Crown in Gaithersburg if Option H or the holding school option goes through.

Region 5 looks pathetic.

I wonder if a lawsuit with how the regional magnets are set up will be worth it ( some areas get more advanced courses and the poor region like region 5 don't get those). As someone from Region 5 with an advanced kid, I am pissed that we don't get access to Poolesville or advanced engineering or Ptech.

Wasn't the reason for these regional magnets to make it accessible to all? How is it being accessible to all when different regions get different pathways?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of these pro H. Here’s what’s to happen under H:

The W schools benefit even more.
Let’s stop pretending the Rosemont kids that H has Wootton merging with are some low-income families. Have you people looked at the houses around Crown that go to Rosemont? It’s like 800-900k for a freaking townhome. H doesn’t send all of Rosemont to Crown/Wootton, it literally sends the richest Rosemont kids at both Rosemont and the entire Gaithersburg cluster, to Crown.


These people on this thread think the only people who are anti-H are Wootton parents. No—many Gaithersburg families are also anti H but for very different reasons.

Think of H impacts on Gaithersburg please.

Good point made. We’re mixing socioeconomic status/house prices with demographics (yes, I know there is a connection so please don’t feel it needs to be pointed out). But, for the sake of argument - if the school combining with Wootton in crown was from a “good”neighborhood with similar demographics to the Wootton cluster but who had terrible behaviors and low test scores, would the anti H peeps feel the same? I think they would…?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will 6 regional programs proceed without any rejection/modification and effective 2027-2028?

Nobody knows because MCPS either itself doesn’t know or doesn’t want to tell us.

Will the regional model even pass? The teachers’ union came out against it…the board usually takes MCEA’s stance pretty seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will 6 regional programs proceed without any rejection/modification and effective 2027-2028?

Nobody knows because MCPS either itself doesn’t know or doesn’t want to tell us.

Will the regional model even pass? The teachers’ union came out against it…the board usually takes MCEA’s stance pretty seriously.

Unfortunately not in this case. Sounds like BOE is in favor of the regional model. Heck, Supt has it baked into his new operating budget, not even waiting for formal vote yes.

[Anonymous]

Clarifying, in all probability, regional model as is will pass.

Except no one really knows how regional model will actually work, since they don't have anything definitive. Just half-baked plans, which can change on a dime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clarifying, in all probability, regional model as is will pass.

Except no one really knows how regional model will actually work, since they don't have anything definitive. Just half-baked plans, which can change on a dime.

Yall im going to be for real: I haven’t even had the time to take a deep dive into the half-baked plan because I’m still trying to figure out the boundaries. All I know is most teachers don’t like it. I trust my kids’ teachers more than politicians.

Why does this feel like the Trump strategy? Overwhelm everyone with information and decisions all at once, create chaos & sow division, and then just do whatever the man in charge wants to begin with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clarifying, in all probability, regional model as is will pass.

Except no one really knows how regional model will actually work, since they don't have anything definitive. Just half-baked plans, which can change on a dime.

Yall im going to be for real: I haven’t even had the time to take a deep dive into the half-baked plan because I’m still trying to figure out the boundaries. All I know is most teachers don’t like it. I trust my kids’ teachers more than politicians.

Why does this feel like the Trump strategy? Overwhelm everyone with information and decisions all at once, create chaos & sow division, and then just do whatever the man in charge wants to begin with?

This is exactly what is happening. Until this Option H proposal this board was filled with threads on Regional magnets. Now after this created a division amongst Wootton families, Gaithersburg, all we talk about is Option H.

The poster who mentioned Option H giving away all the best resources at Crown to Region 4 is spot on.

Wootton should stay where they are, the initial options should be considered again and Crown should host the STEM magnet, not healthcare and medical sciences.

Crown or Wootton or whichever school it is should be in Region 5 magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a Gaithersburg resident, I am saddened by this entire thread. I am opposed to H but for completely different reasons.

This thread and the larger conversation is dominated by parents wealthy enough to sue vs. people who aren’t impacted by the decision, don’t have skin in the game, don’t live in the affected areas, etc.

No one cares about Gaithersburg.
No one cares that they are giving away a brand new school to a community that doesn’t even want it.
No one cares that there are kids in our community who are walkable to Crown, who can see Crown from their house, yet won’t be able to attend under H.
No one cares that H means not only do the kids referenced above lose access to Crown, but so does the entire region 5.

Has anyone considered how H impacts people in Gaithersburg, especially when we don’t have the resources to sue? Most of us can’t even attend BOE meetings because we are working families. A meeting at 12 PM or the upcoming 4 PM is ridiculous.

Why did the new options even come up? A-D were the only options that gave Gaithersburg a voice. Is it really because Churchill sued? If suing is the only way to get MCPS to listen, then I say have at it Wootton…go sue MCPS.

H does not benefit Gaithersburg, but again nobody cares about us.

Are you the one who guided kids to make that “They don’t really care about us” video?

No I was not personally involved in the making of the music video but I 100% agree with the video.

Then it’s really Wootton and Crown’s mutual interest to have both schools open. MCPS is the one on the way blocking it