Boys are not all right

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Richard Reeves at the Brookings Institute has done a lot of research on this. If you overlay race and socioeconomic data then you find it’s black and Hispanic boys or those who are just poorer who are doing particularly badly. There’s a 3% difference between Asian girls and boys graduating high school on time but almost a 10% difference between black girls and boys.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-unreported-gender-gap-in-high-school-graduation-rates/

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/racial-disparities-in-the-high-school-graduation-gender-gap/

So, basically the people on here who are scoffing at boys not doing well are making fun of poor black and hispanic boys?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

Which demographic of boys do you think is struggling the most? Are you assuming I fall into that demographic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

So DH and I are parenting our FS to be a responsible independent person and you are parenting your DS to be a responsible independent person. But if others aren't, and they are not, then our sons and daughters will live in the country with them. And that's not good.

This doesn't concern our children directly - but it concerns them indirectly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

Which demographic of boys do you think is struggling the most? Are you assuming I fall into that demographic?

NP. If I had to guess, the demographic of boys with the most struggles are being raised by a single mother, and are also disproportionately non-white.

[Anonymous]

Stop red shirting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably accurate to say something like…parenting and teaching needs to evolve to help
Boys turn into socially responsible and productive members of 2024+ society as opposed to treating them like it’s 1950 and wondering why that doesn’t translate into successful men.

It’s going to include a lot more discussing feelings and washing dishes than the “the boys are not ok!” crowd would probably like.

As long as the "boys will be just fine!" crowd are ready to admit there might be a problem, we can talk about next steps.

there's only a problem if you make into a problem by not parenting your son to be a responsible, independent person.

Yes, I have a son.

Which demographic of boys do you think is struggling the most? Are you assuming I fall into that demographic?

NP. If I had to guess, the demographic of boys with the most struggles are being raised by a single mother, and are also disproportionately non-white.

So I'm sure people like PP smugly saying "you make it into a problem by not parenting....." on this board is really going to be helpful here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

If you read the article, it states that boys still outperform girls in STEM related subjects. Those types of jobs pay a lot more. So, even if girls are outperforming boys in school, that's not translating into higher paying jobs.

Despite female students outperforming males virtually across the board, this advantage is not necessarily carried through to employment, said Carroll.

Young women are still under-represented in some STEM subjects, have fewer opportunities available and command lower salaries than men.

“We need to figure out why female students are still less likely to pursue technology, engineering and maths, and what the possible implications of these gender-based patterns are for labor markets,” Carroll added.

There are very few jobs women can do without a degree that pays decently. Not so for men. The vocational jobs that pay well tend to be more geared towards men -- plumbers, electricians, and the like. Coupled with the cost of college, a lot of young men don't see the need to go to college or an education in general.

The other reason for the disparity is maturity. Boys mature slower than girls. My DS is a really smart kid. He was in a magnet program in HS. He said that the boys did well (DS and a male friend got straight As), but that they cared less about academics in general. The girls were much more serious students.

I honestly think that girls have been allowed to shine more now in academics, whereas boys have not moved much in terms of academic performance. So, it appears that boys are doing worse than girls, but in reality, it's just that the girls have really stepped up their game. They've been told that they can do whatever they want, and to not let being a female stop them. Boys didn't need that message because they already saw male figures in power positions, as astronauts, etc.. They still do, so I am not sure why boys aren't able to step up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

If you read the article, it states that boys still outperform girls in STEM related subjects. Those types of jobs pay a lot more. So, even if girls are outperforming boys in school, that's not translating into higher paying jobs.

Despite female students outperforming males virtually across the board, this advantage is not necessarily carried through to employment, said Carroll.

Young women are still under-represented in some STEM subjects, have fewer opportunities available and command lower salaries than men.

“We need to figure out why female students are still less likely to pursue technology, engineering and maths, and what the possible implications of these gender-based patterns are for labor markets,” Carroll added.

There are very few jobs women can do without a degree that pays decently. Not so for men. The vocational jobs that pay well tend to be more geared towards men -- plumbers, electricians, and the like. Coupled with the cost of college, a lot of young men don't see the need to go to college or an education in general.

The other reason for the disparity is maturity. Boys mature slower than girls. My DS is a really smart kid. He was in a magnet program in HS. He said that the boys did well (DS and a male friend got straight As), but that they cared less about academics in general. The girls were much more serious students.

I honestly think that girls have been allowed to shine more now in academics, whereas boys have not moved much in terms of academic performance. So, it appears that boys are doing worse than girls, but in reality, it's just that the girls have really stepped up their game. They've been told that they can do whatever they want, and to not let being a female stop them. Boys didn't need that message because they already saw male figures in power positions, as astronauts, etc.. They still do, so I am not sure why boys aren't able to step up.

The first step is admitting there is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

If you read the article, it states that boys still outperform girls in STEM related subjects. Those types of jobs pay a lot more. So, even if girls are outperforming boys in school, that's not translating into higher paying jobs.

Despite female students outperforming males virtually across the board, this advantage is not necessarily carried through to employment, said Carroll.

Young women are still under-represented in some STEM subjects, have fewer opportunities available and command lower salaries than men.

“We need to figure out why female students are still less likely to pursue technology, engineering and maths, and what the possible implications of these gender-based patterns are for labor markets,” Carroll added.

There are very few jobs women can do without a degree that pays decently. Not so for men. The vocational jobs that pay well tend to be more geared towards men -- plumbers, electricians, and the like. Coupled with the cost of college, a lot of young men don't see the need to go to college or an education in general.

The other reason for the disparity is maturity. Boys mature slower than girls. My DS is a really smart kid. He was in a magnet program in HS. He said that the boys did well (DS and a male friend got straight As), but that they cared less about academics in general. The girls were much more serious students.

I honestly think that girls have been allowed to shine more now in academics, whereas boys have not moved much in terms of academic performance. So, it appears that boys are doing worse than girls, but in reality, it's just that the girls have really stepped up their game. They've been told that they can do whatever they want, and to not let being a female stop them. Boys didn't need that message because they already saw male figures in power positions, as astronauts, etc.. They still do, so I am not sure why boys aren't able to step up.

The first step is admitting there is a problem.

The problem is the parents who are not pushing their boys to step up their game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

I don’t think older men being in leadership proves that today’s boys are ok. There’s like a 4 to 5, even 6 decade gap there. I think a PP was spot on that the bell curve amongst men is weakening with bigger distribution amongst the tails. And this is a problem from girls/women too because it results in fewer marriageable men for the quality women coming out of college. I don’t know the answer, but I think we should at least acknowledge the problem.

I also think there’s a separate but related issue of the motherhood penalty. The gender pay gap has been debunked. Women without kids are doing great in the workforce. It’s moms who make less. And yes this is biological because the physical and mental demands of pregnancy/child rearing and also likely some innate risk aversion once you have children. We can’t change biology so we have to (or should) somehow decide we’re not ok sacrificing mothers for the societal benefit of carrying on our species (unless you are truly anti natalist, I would hope most people agree society benefits from well raised and cared for children keeping humanity going).

TL; DR

We need to focus on creating a larger swath of emotionally stable, reasonably successful and educated men at the middle (not just focusing on extreme male success at the top as proof boys are ok) and we need to recognize/adjust for the effects of child bearing on women.

+1 so true and well-said, PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

If you read the article, it states that boys still outperform girls in STEM related subjects. Those types of jobs pay a lot more. So, even if girls are outperforming boys in school, that's not translating into higher paying jobs.

Despite female students outperforming males virtually across the board, this advantage is not necessarily carried through to employment, said Carroll.

Young women are still under-represented in some STEM subjects, have fewer opportunities available and command lower salaries than men.

“We need to figure out why female students are still less likely to pursue technology, engineering and maths, and what the possible implications of these gender-based patterns are for labor markets,” Carroll added.

There are very few jobs women can do without a degree that pays decently. Not so for men. The vocational jobs that pay well tend to be more geared towards men -- plumbers, electricians, and the like. Coupled with the cost of college, a lot of young men don't see the need to go to college or an education in general.

The other reason for the disparity is maturity. Boys mature slower than girls. My DS is a really smart kid. He was in a magnet program in HS. He said that the boys did well (DS and a male friend got straight As), but that they cared less about academics in general. The girls were much more serious students.

I honestly think that girls have been allowed to shine more now in academics, whereas boys have not moved much in terms of academic performance. So, it appears that boys are doing worse than girls, but in reality, it's just that the girls have really stepped up their game. They've been told that they can do whatever they want, and to not let being a female stop them. Boys didn't need that message because they already saw male figures in power positions, as astronauts, etc.. They still do, so I am not sure why boys aren't able to step up.

The first step is admitting there is a problem.

The problem is the parents who are not pushing their boys to step up their game.

Ok, why is that? What else is going on with these parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop red shirting!

Actually the opposite is true, more redshirting would help younger boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how nasty people are toward boys. These are our sons and your future SIL's.

Yes, it's depressing.

The responses here aren't nasty to boys. They are trying to get people like you to get your heads out of your butts.

Boys are fine. They still run the world. Women are still getting the poop end of the stick.

You two really need to get a frickin grip.

Dear lord, can you feminists really not understand the difference between white boomer men, and young millennial and Gen Z boys?

Yeah, you go tell the young black men getting harassed by cops that they rule the world, or the white teen boy in Appalachia who was orphaned by the opioid epidemic who’s town is dying; that THEY rule the world.

Get out of your feminist UMC bubble.

There’s a segment of men dominating in many areas that has unfortunately been extrapolated to be associated with all males.

If you read the article, it states that boys still outperform girls in STEM related subjects. Those types of jobs pay a lot more. So, even if girls are outperforming boys in school, that's not translating into higher paying jobs.

Despite female students outperforming males virtually across the board, this advantage is not necessarily carried through to employment, said Carroll.

Young women are still under-represented in some STEM subjects, have fewer opportunities available and command lower salaries than men.

“We need to figure out why female students are still less likely to pursue technology, engineering and maths, and what the possible implications of these gender-based patterns are for labor markets,” Carroll added.

There are very few jobs women can do without a degree that pays decently. Not so for men. The vocational jobs that pay well tend to be more geared towards men -- plumbers, electricians, and the like. Coupled with the cost of college, a lot of young men don't see the need to go to college or an education in general.

The other reason for the disparity is maturity. Boys mature slower than girls. My DS is a really smart kid. He was in a magnet program in HS. He said that the boys did well (DS and a male friend got straight As), but that they cared less about academics in general. The girls were much more serious students.

I honestly think that girls have been allowed to shine more now in academics, whereas boys have not moved much in terms of academic performance. So, it appears that boys are doing worse than girls, but in reality, it's just that the girls have really stepped up their game. They've been told that they can do whatever they want, and to not let being a female stop them. Boys didn't need that message because they already saw male figures in power positions, as astronauts, etc.. They still do, so I am not sure why boys aren't able to step up.

The first step is admitting there is a problem.

The problem is the parents who are not pushing their boys to step up their game.

To add... if girls have been able to step up their game, why can't the boys? It's either the boys don't care enough or the parents are coddling the boys. Either way, that's a personal problem, not a systemic problem. There is no college or job that won't let in smart boys. This isn't like when colleges wouldn't admit women, or when women were relegated to being a teacher or secretary.