Junior associate at Big Law -- help!

[Anonymous]

If you loved the work I would say you should move closer to it and have your husband quit his job so you could fire the nanny and he'd be able to prep healthy meals for you to pack (or just buy you a bunch of lean cuisines) and you should hire a personal trainer to really put you through your paces for 30 min a few times a week (you'd make up the rest by walking to work or the metro).

But you don't love the work, just the money it brings. It's not the right choice now and it doesn't seem worth it. You need an exit strategy. Commit to staying through this year and do your best at work, but start looking for other things. Could you be a career clerk for a judge? Are there jobs at Lexis-Nexis or Westlaw that are more research based? Do you want to work in government? In-house? Nonprofit? Do what you need to do to make your next job financially possible, whether that's hiring more childcare now so your husband can get a better paying job, or devoting more money to paying off student loans, or choosing to stay at your job until your youngest is in kindergarten or you get fired.

I don't think biglaw is for you and that's ok. It isn't for most people. At least you have a clerkship bonus and a year of biglaw salary to pad your path to whatever's next.

[Anonymous]

Sorry but 9:00 - 10:00 AM -- gym/shower/dressed is kind of ridiculous.

Sorry, but if you start billing at 10 AM, I would question your dedication to the job. Especially if you aren't billing weekends. This is a huge red flag.

[Anonymous]

You need to get enough experience in your specialty to be marketable to a boutique.
Quit the gym in the morning. If you spend from 9 to 10 in the gym, that is going to totally piss off partners and senior associates. Figure something else out.
Do client calls in the car.
Quit being a billing saint. Bill for absolutely everything you do, no matter how inefficient. Let the partner cut the bills. This is a fine line. You don't want to be seen as massively inefficient but do not cut your own throat.
Move closer to work. It makes a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH is a BigLaw junior partner and he works out 5 weekdays per week but he goes running or lifts weights at home. He controls weight by bringing meals from home (tip: choose a few flavors of lean cuisine or similar that you can stand and make that lunch daily). If he is in the middle of something he gets up at 5 to answer overnight emails before he starts his day, otherwise he gets up at 6, works out and showers. He is dressed for the day at 7, says good morning to the kids, and grabs his food for the day (yogurt for breakfast, midmorning snack, frozen meal or salad for lunch, afternoon snack). He is out the door for work at 7:15, and has a 20-minute drive. He gets home at 6:45/7MTuTh, changes, does stories with the kids and tucks them in by 7:30. Eats dinner, relaxes a bit then often does an hour or two of work between 8-11. In bed between 10:30-11:30. Wednesdays and Fridays he consistently works late and tries to do client dinners those nights when he can. On those nights he gets home at 10-11 and we go right to bed. He consistently works weekends during naptime on Saturday (I run errands then) and Sunday from lunch-dinner.

SAHMs stop posting on work threads about what your meal ticket does all day. Thanks,
everyone

How is my input less relevant? The point was that OP wants to know how people make the needed hours. This is how DH does it. It looks very different from her schedule and requires the other partner to either handle a ton of childcare or you need to outsource. As it happens I work FT and we have a nanny and supportive local grandparents. If OP can’t even imagine a schedule similar to the above then this might not be the career for her.

[Anonymous]

My god, OP, you need to figure out how the game is played and fast:

-Everything you do, you bill - if the partner thinks the time needs to be written off, they will do it
-Pro bono is all well and good, but only if you get credit for it, and even then, you can't give the impression that you are prioritizing pro bono over billable work.
-You want to have a life? Go to the gym, attend church and spend time with friends? You can do all these things but only once you prove yourself to people you work with and have enough credibility that your superiors see you as a human being and not a fungible drone. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is.
-Cut down the commute and work from home when you can

--Big Law of counsel with two kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back. This thread has gotten off topic, but thank you for those who answered the question.

So, here is my day generally if I'm not dealing with interviewing at schools or travelling for work (not billable):

Wake up at 5:30 AM -- breakfast, clothing, pack myself for the day, straighten up, and deal with all the emergency emails I had overnight (I generally don't bill for these 1-3 minute emails, because I cannot bill for 0.01 of an hour)
6:30-7:00 AM -- leave for DC.
8-8:30 AM -- arrive in office and set up computer to deal with emails/calls
9:00 - 10:00 AM -- gym/shower/dressed
10 AM - 7 PM -- work like crazy, but dealing with pitches, responses to team members on cases that I'm not on (but collegial office so can't ignore), work for cases that I'm told cannot be billed, practice-group meetings, interviews, billable hour tracking, trainings, bathroom, lunch all suck up actual work time and I'm careful to only bill clients the $500+/hour for time that I am 100% productive. Plus, pro bono does not fully count and I always am on a pro bono case. If pro bono counted, that alone would allow me to make my hours. Or, if I billed on bathroom breaks as I know my colleagues do, that would help. Or if I did billable work during travel (knowing that it is less productive in tiny, uncomfortable seats with people constantly interrupting you), that would help. But, I don't and I won't play that game.
8:30 PM -- arrive home, eat, try to unwind.
11 PM - ... -- sometimes have to go back to work, but sometimes have a very interrupted sleep with 2 children that wake up often.

My weekends are not free: (1) we don't have a weekend nanny; (2) we have church and other activities; (3) I have a family and friends; (5) we try to go away on weekends to make up for not taking vacation. I try not to work on weekends, but yes, I do work then too.

I am barely sleeping as it is. Am I expected to sleep less? And, yes, I have to go to the gym -- the people in my office are fat and I gained 20 pounds in the first 6 months at the firm.

I am in a specialty practice.

Like others, I find this schedule to be insane. I was a biglaw litigation associate for 5 years, and I am a parent now. In full disclosure, I was not a parent during biglaw, but I can relate to the experience and I think my perspective allows me to understand the realities of doing so. I also know many many parents still in biglaw. What you're doing (if accurately described) is bonkers. No wonder you are miserable.

Point by point:

"Wake up at 5:30 AM -- breakfast, clothing, pack myself for the day, straighten up, and deal with all the emergency emails I had overnight (I generally don't bill for these 1-3 minute emails, because I cannot bill for 0.01 of an hour)"

There's a couple things in here that raise my eyebrows. 5:30 am seems too early for me, but that may be a matter of preference. The idea that you have a slew of emergency emails every day is weird to me. Unless you're staffed on cases going to trial or deals that are closing, you should not have a slew of emergency emails every single night. And, much more importantly, if you really are spending 30 minutes or so (it is difficult to tell how much time is allotted to this daily emergency email routine), you should ABSOLUTELY be billing that 30 minutes. I don't care if it's a bunch of 3 minute emails, you bill them each at .1, or if they're all for the same matter, you bill them together as .5. More reasonably, if you spend 30 minutes answering emails for 3 different matters, you can just bill a .2 for each matter. You are being paid to bill your time. You aren't being paid to get up at 5:30am and answer emergency emails that never get recorded.

6:30-7:00 AM -- leave for DC.
8-8:30 AM -- arrive in office and set up computer to deal with emails/calls

This means you have a 1.5 hour commute. The only way the long commute can work for you is if you find a way to bill on your commute. 3 hours per day of wasted time is not going to help you.

9:00 - 10:00 AM -- gym/shower/dressed

Unlike others, I don't think you have to get rid of the workout. You could maybe shift to every other day (it's healthy to give your body a rest day anyway), but I think you can make an hour of workout time fit in a schedule (provided you fix your commute issue).

However, there is still a huge problem with this bullet. What happened between 8 and 9? Set up computer (what does that mean?) This is another lost hour. Combined with the long commute, and the gym, you're now 4.5 hours into your day and you haven't billed a thing. If you are spending the 8-9 hour working on matters (including answering emails/correspondence re: those matters) you need to BILL that time.

10 AM - 7 PM -- work like crazy, but dealing with pitches, responses to team members on cases that I'm not on (but collegial office so can't ignore), work for cases that I'm told cannot be billed, practice-group meetings, interviews, billable hour tracking, trainings, bathroom, lunch all suck up actual work time and I'm careful to only bill clients the $500+/hour for time that I am 100% productive. Plus, pro bono does not fully count and I always am on a pro bono case. If pro bono counted, that alone would allow me to make my hours. Or, if I billed on bathroom breaks as I know my colleagues do, that would help. Or if I did billable work during travel (knowing that it is less productive in tiny, uncomfortable seats with people constantly interrupting you), that would help. But, I don't and I won't play that game.

I've just never heard of a first year who spends most of their time doing pitches (I don't think I contributed to a single pitch in my first year), responding to team members on cases they aren't on (you don't really have that much expertise yet), interviews (what? summer associate interviewing cannot be a major part of your year), training (this is like 10-20 hours per year), bathroom (do you have a medical issue or do you mean just regular 2 minute bathroom breaks a couple times a day?) and lunch (eat at your desk and keep working). I don't know if something weird is going on that you're spending so much time advising attorneys on other cases, but if it's a substantial amount of time and you're adding value, you should bill your time. If it's not or you aren't, just stop doing it. Overall this seems like a major time management issue for you. If you are working like crazy from 10-7, you should have more than enough billable hours.

The pro bono thing intrigues me too. I did pro bono when I was at the firm. It was usually like 150-200 hours per year, and I was one of the higher pro bono workers at my firm. That's a pretty small amount of your time (maybe 3 hours per week). If you're doing substantially more than that, you should talk to your practice group leaders or a mentor and see if you can additional associate help on some of these pro bono matters. I am certain that you can find a way (and the firm will be happy to help you find a way) to put on you on billable matters rather than pro bono ones.

8:30 PM -- arrive home, eat, try to unwind.
11 PM - ... -- sometimes have to go back to work, but sometimes have a very interrupted sleep with 2 children that wake up often.

Look I do have some sympathy for you OP. This is not an easy gig, I know. But you're making it a lot harder than it needs to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you loved the work I would say you should move closer to it and have your husband quit his job so you could fire the nanny and he'd be able to prep healthy meals for you to pack (or just buy you a bunch of lean cuisines) and you should hire a personal trainer to really put you through your paces for 30 min a few times a week (you'd make up the rest by walking to work or the metro).

But you don't love the work, just the money it brings. It's not the right choice now and it doesn't seem worth it. You need an exit strategy. Commit to staying through this year and do your best at work, but start looking for other things. Could you be a career clerk for a judge? Are there jobs at Lexis-Nexis or Westlaw that are more research based? Do you want to work in government? In-house? Nonprofit? Do what you need to do to make your next job financially possible, whether that's hiring more childcare now so your husband can get a better paying job, or devoting more money to paying off student loans, or choosing to stay at your job until your youngest is in kindergarten or you get fired.

I don't think biglaw is for you and that's ok. It isn't for most people. At least you have a clerkship bonus and a year of biglaw salary to pad your path to whatever's next.

Agree with moving closer to the job, but the bolded really isn't necessary, at all. I mean, if OP wants to do the bolded, sure go ahead. But it's not like it's necessary to do that to thrive in biglaw.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm going to give you some harsh advice here.

1. You need to learn how to manage your time better. Really? That much time "setting up a computer?"
2. You need to learn how to say no.
3. You need to drop the entitlement. Thinking it's okay for you to work out from 9 to 10, prime working/client hours every day, is a form of entitlement. Particularly when you are getting paid what you are getting paid, and your peers are working during those hours. Thinking you are exempt from working weekends and need to get away every weekend is also a form of entitlement.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't have had the balls to spend the 9-10a hour in the gym every day as a first year associate, but in retrospect, I actually think you could make that work out (get it?) if you cleaned up your other (massive) problems of (1) your commute is too long, (2) you are inefficient, (3) you don't bill all of your time (why?!), and (4) you volunteer (or don't say no to) a LOT of non-billable stuff.

I'd focus on #1-4 well before worrying about your workout time.

[Anonymous]

Have a sit down with your partner mentor and have her walk you through billing practices. You don't seem to be doing it right. And do not do other people's admin work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you loved the work I would say you should move closer to it and have your husband quit his job so you could fire the nanny and he'd be able to prep healthy meals for you to pack (or just buy you a bunch of lean cuisines) and you should hire a personal trainer to really put you through your paces for 30 min a few times a week (you'd make up the rest by walking to work or the metro).

But you don't love the work, just the money it brings. It's not the right choice now and it doesn't seem worth it. You need an exit strategy. Commit to staying through this year and do your best at work, but start looking for other things. Could you be a career clerk for a judge? Are there jobs at Lexis-Nexis or Westlaw that are more research based? Do you want to work in government? In-house? Nonprofit? Do what you need to do to make your next job financially possible, whether that's hiring more childcare now so your husband can get a better paying job, or devoting more money to paying off student loans, or choosing to stay at your job until your youngest is in kindergarten or you get fired.

I don't think biglaw is for you and that's ok. It isn't for most people. At least you have a clerkship bonus and a year of biglaw salary to pad your path to whatever's next.

Agree with moving closer to the job, but the bolded really isn't necessary, at all. I mean, if OP wants to do the bolded, sure go ahead. But it's not like it's necessary to do that to thrive in biglaw.

Necessary for all Big Law folks? no. But OP seems to stress about having someone home for her kids, and a stay at home dad solves that issue. She wants to maintain her weight, and doesn't seem able to be maximally efficient with food and exercise. Outsourcing meal prep (either to a husband or a delivery service) and exercise (by hiring a trainer) would help. It sounds like kids and then health (exercise, sleep, etc.) are the most important things to OP. That makes biglaw a bad fit. But if she's going to do it nonetheless, she needs to make those things as easy as possible and jettison the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you loved the work I would say you should move closer to it and have your husband quit his job so you could fire the nanny and he'd be able to prep healthy meals for you to pack (or just buy you a bunch of lean cuisines) and you should hire a personal trainer to really put you through your paces for 30 min a few times a week (you'd make up the rest by walking to work or the metro).

But you don't love the work, just the money it brings. It's not the right choice now and it doesn't seem worth it. You need an exit strategy. Commit to staying through this year and do your best at work, but start looking for other things. Could you be a career clerk for a judge? Are there jobs at Lexis-Nexis or Westlaw that are more research based? Do you want to work in government? In-house? Nonprofit? Do what you need to do to make your next job financially possible, whether that's hiring more childcare now so your husband can get a better paying job, or devoting more money to paying off student loans, or choosing to stay at your job until your youngest is in kindergarten or you get fired.

I don't think biglaw is for you and that's ok. It isn't for most people. At least you have a clerkship bonus and a year of biglaw salary to pad your path to whatever's next.

Agree with moving closer to the job, but the bolded really isn't necessary, at all. I mean, if OP wants to do the bolded, sure go ahead. But it's not like it's necessary to do that to thrive in biglaw.

Necessary for all Big Law folks? no. But OP seems to stress about having someone home for her kids, and a stay at home dad solves that issue. She wants to maintain her weight, and doesn't seem able to be maximally efficient with food and exercise. Outsourcing meal prep (either to a husband or a delivery service) and exercise (by hiring a trainer) would help. It sounds like kids and then health (exercise, sleep, etc.) are the most important things to OP. That makes biglaw a bad fit. But if she's going to do it nonetheless, she needs to make those things as easy as possible and jettison the rest.

Fair enough. I tend to agree with you the biglaw is a bad fit for the OP. Based on that, I'd be very reluctant to have DH quit just to keep biglaw thing going a couple more years. OP's next job after biglaw likely won't be as lucrative. They'll need DH to keep his career going so they'll be ok once the biglaw money dries up. The last thing they need is to derail DH's career now, imho.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you loved the work I would say you should move closer to it and have your husband quit his job so you could fire the nanny and he'd be able to prep healthy meals for you to pack (or just buy you a bunch of lean cuisines) and you should hire a personal trainer to really put you through your paces for 30 min a few times a week (you'd make up the rest by walking to work or the metro).

But you don't love the work, just the money it brings. It's not the right choice now and it doesn't seem worth it. You need an exit strategy. Commit to staying through this year and do your best at work, but start looking for other things. Could you be a career clerk for a judge? Are there jobs at Lexis-Nexis or Westlaw that are more research based? Do you want to work in government? In-house? Nonprofit? Do what you need to do to make your next job financially possible, whether that's hiring more childcare now so your husband can get a better paying job, or devoting more money to paying off student loans, or choosing to stay at your job until your youngest is in kindergarten or you get fired.

I don't think biglaw is for you and that's ok. It isn't for most people. At least you have a clerkship bonus and a year of biglaw salary to pad your path to whatever's next.

Agree with moving closer to the job, but the bolded really isn't necessary, at all. I mean, if OP wants to do the bolded, sure go ahead. But it's not like it's necessary to do that to thrive in biglaw.

Necessary for all Big Law folks? no. But OP seems to stress about having someone home for her kids, and a stay at home dad solves that issue. She wants to maintain her weight, and doesn't seem able to be maximally efficient with food and exercise. Outsourcing meal prep (either to a husband or a delivery service) and exercise (by hiring a trainer) would help. It sounds like kids and then health (exercise, sleep, etc.) are the most important things to OP. That makes biglaw a bad fit. But if she's going to do it nonetheless, she needs to make those things as easy as possible and jettison the rest.

Fair enough. I tend to agree with you the biglaw is a bad fit for the OP. Based on that, I'd be very reluctant to have DH quit just to keep biglaw thing going a couple more years. OP's next job after biglaw likely won't be as lucrative. They'll need DH to keep his career going so they'll be ok once the biglaw money dries up. The last thing they need is to derail DH's career now, imho.

This. I asked DH to do it and then I came up for partner during the financial crisis. You can guess how that ended...I landed well and DH resurrected his career, but it took time and he is not where he would have been had he kept working. He also happened to be in a marketable field and not everyone is.

[Anonymous]

OP — you’ve elicited a rare DCUM consensus that the problem is you. Congrats!

[Anonymous]

Op or whom ever posted that schedule has ro ne a troll. A junior associate actually working that achedule wouldnt last six months.