Junior associate at Big Law -- help!

[Anonymous]

I would cut out the church on Sundays. Your lifestyle is not compatible with the existence of an all-powerful all-loving God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

1) Assuming you must do all the pro bono work that you have, is it litigation? If so, can you recruit an additional associate to your case to share the load or have a summer associate or a staff attorney do some of the research or even first-round drafting?

2) Are you making the most of the staff and support available? Secretary, paralegals, research librarians?

3) You need to be billing for time you are working, and work is work even if you're not all bright eyed and bushy tailed. I'm sure I read and analyze faster at 9am than I do at 11pm. But I'm still billing if I stay up late to work.

4) Responding to colleagues. We also have a collegial office and people will respond to queries without billing. But this is limited to simple queries that people can answer off the top of their head. So if I know someone has recently done XYZ, I might call them with a question or two so they can point me in the right direction or confirm that my reading of XYZ requirement is same as theirs was. But these kinds of queries shouldn't require you to actually go off and do work to formulate a response. Is that happening, where you are going off and having to do actual research or analysis to answer such queries?

Honestly, as a first-year, she probably doesn't have any of the type of queries you're talking about. That's for people with more experience who actually have reasonable experience based answers to give off of the top of their heads. If someone is asking a first-year for an answer on ANYTHING, it should be expected that the first-year will bill the time needed to get the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 3 hour commute has got to go.

I also work out at home which is so much more efficient. You don't need a lot of fancy equipment. I have some dumbbells and an exercise ball and mat and do a lot with free body weight - squats, presses, push ups, lunges, planks etc. We do have a treadmill but I try to a lot outside.

Anyway, given your commute could you make a case to the firm for telecommuting 2x a week? Seems like you could bill more eliminating those 6 hours.

I thought OP said this was her first year at the firm (after a clerkship maybe?). I would not recommend asking to telework 2x per week when she's this junior.

OP, I would give up the workouts and focus on eating healthy/appropriate quantities which is the main reason people gain weight. I would also give up family and friends for now on the weekends except for those family members that want to either come over and visit with the kids while you work or that want to take the kids out, again while you work. I realize it sucks but it's only for a few years while you sock away money and build experience and plan an exit strategy.

I would also consider moving closer to the firm if possible.

No, don't do the bolded. Yes scale back the daily workouts, move to make the commute more reasonable, but don't give up on your family and friends. You can have a social life and still bill 2200 hours. I know -- I've done it.

Did you have 2 little kids at the time? Even my friends with famously work/life balanced careers kind of dropped off the map when their kids were little, so I don't see how OP can manage a 3 hour round trip commute, meeting her billable minimums, being present in her kids' lives, and a social life. Something's got to give.

[Anonymous]

OP - I understand your position but this isn't working for you. When I was a BigLaw ASsociate I got home at 11:00 p.m. every night (if that at all) and worked every single weekend. I did not work out every morning. I billed (there was a code) for pro bono, I billed for administrative (there was a code). You need better home resources like a weekend nanny or mother's helper.

[Anonymous]

If you don't want to get fat, eat less. You don't have an hour each day for the gym at this stage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 3 hour commute has got to go.

I also work out at home which is so much more efficient. You don't need a lot of fancy equipment. I have some dumbbells and an exercise ball and mat and do a lot with free body weight - squats, presses, push ups, lunges, planks etc. We do have a treadmill but I try to a lot outside.

Anyway, given your commute could you make a case to the firm for telecommuting 2x a week? Seems like you could bill more eliminating those 6 hours.

I thought OP said this was her first year at the firm (after a clerkship maybe?). I would not recommend asking to telework 2x per week when she's this junior.

OP, I would give up the workouts and focus on eating healthy/appropriate quantities which is the main reason people gain weight. I would also give up family and friends for now on the weekends except for those family members that want to either come over and visit with the kids while you work or that want to take the kids out, again while you work. I realize it sucks but it's only for a few years while you sock away money and build experience and plan an exit strategy.

I would also consider moving closer to the firm if possible.

No, don't do the bolded. Yes scale back the daily workouts, move to make the commute more reasonable, but don't give up on your family and friends. You can have a social life and still bill 2200 hours. I know -- I've done it.

Did you have 2 little kids at the time? Even my friends with famously work/life balanced careers kind of dropped off the map when their kids were little, so I don't see how OP can manage a 3 hour round trip commute, meeting her billable minimums, being present in her kids' lives, and a social life. Something's got to give.

I agree. The commute is what should give. Not even close. That's 15 hours a week that she's not billing, not spending time with family, and not doing anything that adds anything to her life. In biglaw, money is plentiful, but time is scarce. She needs to pay money to live closer to work.

And FYI, the social life I'm thinking of will still revolve around spending time with the kids. Like doing stuff with other friends with kids, etc.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the above posts- you aren't cut out for BigLaw. To be successful in BL, one must prioritize work above all else. Squeezing in a workout between 8-9 is unheard of- you should be working by then. Most partners I know get up a 5 to workout and don't have a long commute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

1) Assuming you must do all the pro bono work that you have, is it litigation? If so, can you recruit an additional associate to your case to share the load or have a summer associate or a staff attorney do some of the research or even first-round drafting?

2) Are you making the most of the staff and support available? Secretary, paralegals, research librarians?

3) You need to be billing for time you are working, and work is work even if you're not all bright eyed and bushy tailed. I'm sure I read and analyze faster at 9am than I do at 11pm. But I'm still billing if I stay up late to work.

4) Responding to colleagues. We also have a collegial office and people will respond to queries without billing. But this is limited to simple queries that people can answer off the top of their head. So if I know someone has recently done XYZ, I might call them with a question or two so they can point me in the right direction or confirm that my reading of XYZ requirement is same as theirs was. But these kinds of queries shouldn't require you to actually go off and do work to formulate a response. Is that happening, where you are going off and having to do actual research or analysis to answer such queries?

Honestly, as a first-year, she probably doesn't have any of the type of queries you're talking about. That's for people with more experience who actually have reasonable experience based answers to give off of the top of their heads. If someone is asking a first-year for an answer on ANYTHING, it should be expected that the first-year will bill the time needed to get the answer.

Agreed. But that's why I'm wondering if something odd is going on. Like maybe other first years are asking her questions and she feels like she has to give an answer to be collegial and goes off and researches it for them. Or maybe the askers are expecting her to bill, but because she's seen more senior people informally field queries without billing, she thinks she's not supposed to bill either.

It just seems odd to me that she's spending a noteworthy (since she noted it) amount of time dealing with questions regarding cases she's not on. That doesn't sound like typical first year experience to me. Like you said, those kind of queries don't start coming for a couple of years at least. The only thing I can think of is maybe she's getting questions on the basis of her clerkship, about the rules and practices or judges from the court she clerked on.

[Anonymous]

DH is a BigLaw junior partner and he works out 5 weekdays per week but he goes running or lifts weights at home. He controls weight by bringing meals from home (tip: choose a few flavors of lean cuisine or similar that you can stand and make that lunch daily). If he is in the middle of something he gets up at 5 to answer overnight emails before he starts his day, otherwise he gets up at 6, works out and showers. He is dressed for the day at 7, says good morning to the kids, and grabs his food for the day (yogurt for breakfast, midmorning snack, frozen meal or salad for lunch, afternoon snack). He is out the door for work at 7:15, and has a 20-minute drive. He gets home at 6:45/7MTuTh, changes, does stories with the kids and tucks them in by 7:30. Eats dinner, relaxes a bit then often does an hour or two of work between 8-11. In bed between 10:30-11:30. Wednesdays and Fridays he consistently works late and tries to do client dinners those nights when he can. On those nights he gets home at 10-11 and we go right to bed. He consistently works weekends during naptime on Saturday (I run errands then) and Sunday from lunch-dinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a horrid profession....

It's really not as dire as many on here make it sound.

I don't know, but I feel so sad for the kids. These little ones need you and want you. My daughter is 12 and she still loves when I come home - one hour after she gets home from school. I took the day off last week and was home when she got home. First thing she said was "Mom, I love when you are home and I can talk about my day with you".

I work in Biglaw and am home almost every day by 7-7:30. Spend evenings doing bath and stories, log on again at 9pm and work as long as I need to. Rarely work at the office during weekends. Attend almost all of my kids' preschool events. In other words, I see my kids a ton; the trade-off is working late and from home, which does not bother me in the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH is a BigLaw junior partner and he works out 5 weekdays per week but he goes running or lifts weights at home. He controls weight by bringing meals from home (tip: choose a few flavors of lean cuisine or similar that you can stand and make that lunch daily). If he is in the middle of something he gets up at 5 to answer overnight emails before he starts his day, otherwise he gets up at 6, works out and showers. He is dressed for the day at 7, says good morning to the kids, and grabs his food for the day (yogurt for breakfast, midmorning snack, frozen meal or salad for lunch, afternoon snack). He is out the door for work at 7:15, and has a 20-minute drive. He gets home at 6:45/7MTuTh, changes, does stories with the kids and tucks them in by 7:30. Eats dinner, relaxes a bit then often does an hour or two of work between 8-11. In bed between 10:30-11:30. Wednesdays and Fridays he consistently works late and tries to do client dinners those nights when he can. On those nights he gets home at 10-11 and we go right to bed. He consistently works weekends during naptime on Saturday (I run errands then) and Sunday from lunch-dinner.

SAHMs stop posting on work threads about what your meal ticket does all day. Thanks,
everyone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back. This thread has gotten off topic, but thank you for those who answered the question.

So, here is my day generally if I'm not dealing with interviewing at schools or travelling for work (not billable):

Wake up at 5:30 AM -- breakfast, clothing, pack myself for the day, straighten up, and deal with all the emergency emails I had overnight (I generally don't bill for these 1-3 minute emails, because I cannot bill for 0.01 of an hour)
6:30-7:00 AM -- leave for DC.
8-8:30 AM -- arrive in office and set up computer to deal with emails/calls
9:00 - 10:00 AM -- gym/shower/dressed
10 AM - 7 PM -- work like crazy, but dealing with pitches, responses to team members on cases that I'm not on (but collegial office so can't ignore), work for cases that I'm told cannot be billed, practice-group meetings, interviews, billable hour tracking, trainings, bathroom, lunch all suck up actual work time and I'm careful to only bill clients the $500+/hour for time that I am 100% productive. Plus, pro bono does not fully count and I always am on a pro bono case. If pro bono counted, that alone would allow me to make my hours. Or, if I billed on bathroom breaks as I know my colleagues do, that would help. Or if I did billable work during travel (knowing that it is less productive in tiny, uncomfortable seats with people constantly interrupting you), that would help. But, I don't and I won't play that game.
8:30 PM -- arrive home, eat, try to unwind.
11 PM - ... -- sometimes have to go back to work, but sometimes have a very interrupted sleep with 2 children that wake up often.

My weekends are not free: (1) we don't have a weekend nanny; (2) we have church and other activities; (3) I have a family and friends; (5) we try to go away on weekends to make up for not taking vacation. I try not to work on weekends, but yes, I do work then too.

I am barely sleeping as it is. Am I expected to sleep less? And, yes, I have to go to the gym -- the people in my office are fat and I gained 20 pounds in the first 6 months at the firm.

I am in a specialty practice.

Is this for real?

[Anonymous]

Defintely a time managment issue, as others have siaid.

One thing I'll add -- it will get better as time goes by. We have two toddlers also, but it gets better by the month as they grow up and start sleeping through the night and so on.

Also most lawyers I work with put in a few hours after the kids go to bed. Try coming home a bit earlier, then work a few hours as soon as they're in bed.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP - I just read part of this thread, so excuse me if this is already covered.

Why do you want to do biglaw? This sounds like a bad fit for you. I remember when I was a first year associate, doing these crazy hours, going home, walking my dog, and then wanting to cry thinking that I hadn't just bought myself any free time for a *life* - I had to go back tomorrow and do it all again.

I obviously didn't last long in this environment. I remember at my "you can tell everyone you quit" meeting with two senior partners in my team, they told me how it just didn't seem like I wanted to be there. They were right. I asked them if they wanted to be there. They both told me how they loved this work and they loved this life.

If you don't have the stamina and passion to give yourself over entirely, I would recommend finding something else where you will be happier. I need a lot of flexibility in my life. I need to be able to go exercise for an hour or two a day. That doesn't work in the sort of job where you have no control over your schedule.

Anyway, I would just say that this has been a good learning experience for you. You learned about yourself - what you value, for example - and you probably earned some nice money. Go find yourself a job doing something that won't break your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back. This thread has gotten off topic, but thank you for those who answered the question.

So, here is my day generally if I'm not dealing with interviewing at schools or travelling for work (not billable):

Wake up at 5:30 AM -- breakfast, clothing, pack myself for the day, straighten up, and deal with all the emergency emails I had overnight (I generally don't bill for these 1-3 minute emails, because I cannot bill for 0.01 of an hour)
6:30-7:00 AM -- leave for DC.
8-8:30 AM -- arrive in office and set up computer to deal with emails/calls
9:00 - 10:00 AM -- gym/shower/dressed
10 AM - 7 PM -- work like crazy, but dealing with pitches, responses to team members on cases that I'm not on (but collegial office so can't ignore), work for cases that I'm told cannot be billed, practice-group meetings, interviews, billable hour tracking, trainings, bathroom, lunch all suck up actual work time and I'm careful to only bill clients the $500+/hour for time that I am 100% productive. Plus, pro bono does not fully count and I always am on a pro bono case. If pro bono counted, that alone would allow me to make my hours. Or, if I billed on bathroom breaks as I know my colleagues do, that would help. Or if I did billable work during travel (knowing that it is less productive in tiny, uncomfortable seats with people constantly interrupting you), that would help. But, I don't and I won't play that game.
8:30 PM -- arrive home, eat, try to unwind.
11 PM - ... -- sometimes have to go back to work, but sometimes have a very interrupted sleep with 2 children that wake up often.

My weekends are not free: (1) we don't have a weekend nanny; (2) we have church and other activities; (3) I have a family and friends; (5) we try to go away on weekends to make up for not taking vacation. I try not to work on weekends, but yes, I do work then too.

I am barely sleeping as it is. Am I expected to sleep less? And, yes, I have to go to the gym -- the people in my office are fat and I gained 20 pounds in the first 6 months at the firm.

I am in a specialty practice.

This schedule is crazy. You aren't seeing your kids and you aren't getting your hours. If you're awake by 5:30 AM, then you need to be billing waaaaay before 10 AM. Find a way to shorten the commute or to bill during the commute. Cut back on the workouts. This is a luxury that you can't afford. Work earlier, leave the office earlier, see the kids for dinner and bedtime, sign back on after bedtime.

You also need to work during weekends. Biglaw isn't a normal job. You don't get weekends off. Bill after bedtime. Bill during naptime. Send the kids with dad so you can work for an afternoon or morning. Find time. They aren't paying you big bucks to take weekends away.