Junior associate at Big Law -- help!

[Anonymous]

You can't just focus on billable work for the entire day. And no one takes just 15 minutes worth of bathroom/coffee breaks during the day AND spends every other minute doing productive work. There are mandatory practice group meetings, mandatory associate training meetings, work required to help a partner write an article, or a speech, etc. All non-billable. Only in the law firm business model does every second NOT billing evaporate in terms of being viewed as "work". That is what makes law firm life so soul-sucking---your entire life is judged in 6 minute increments.

When I was a young associate, an older partner explained his personal theory of time-keeping to me---he said that if you spent 10 hours at work and were reasonably efficient, then you could expect to bill 8. Take the 8 hours and reasonably apportion it among the matters you are working on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This might be a stupid question, but does the hour count include all hours you work on a case or only the hours for which a client ends up paying? If the former, 2000 a year (assuming five days off during the year) comes out to less than 8 hours a workday, even before accounting for the presumably inevitable weekend work. If you went into work early (say, 7:45) and focused on billable work (except for a 30-min lunch break and maybe 15 minutes' worth of bathroom breaks, etc.), you could (theoretically) stop doing billable stuff for the rest of the day by 4:30. Is that untenable for a reason I'm overlooking? (It may be, so apologies if this is off-base/somehow insensitive.) Just seems to me that having your mornings freed up for work, perhaps through your husband's assistance, might make things more manageable.

I get that there's non-billable stuff to do, but it sounds like you're spending 700 hours per year on that. Assuming 51 working weeks during the year, that's almost 14 hours a week. Is that amount really necessary? I obviously don't know, but that sounds like a lot to me, for an industry famously driven by the billable hour, which makes me half-suspect your firm could be comfortable with you doing a bit less there.

Hours at law firms = billable hours. You often have to work 12 hour days to bill 8 hours a day.

[Anonymous]

Whew. I feel you. I don't mean this unkindly, but there's a reason why the most successful professional types have their kids later. I also chose to have my kids in my early 30s, and I don't regret it, but I'm realistic about what it has cost me professionally.

Which...is fine. But it sounds like you aren't fine with it. There's no magical answer, and honestly the hit you would take from going to 60 percent would pay for extra childcare.

So...given that you have chosen your choice (law school, kids in your 20s or 30s), you have to figure out what to do NOW.

More childcare help, even if it means not really being there much in the short term. Or longer-term career damage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op back. I don't think I can go.to government. Opportunities are sparse on usajobs and I've applied for 6 months without a bite.

I also can't hire another nanny -- as a 3rd year with a lot of debt, we are barely making ends meet with one full time nanny.

Yes, I did think my firm would be more family friendly. I chose this firm because during the interview, every single MALE partner told me that he either did drop off or pick up every single day and that I'd be fine with two young children. I now see that they were less than honest -- they do drop off or pick-up WHEN they have time which is not the normal.

I did BigLaw with kids. I billed at least three hours every night after bedtime (9 PM - midnight), including all weekends. I was up at 6 AM every morning and left for work by 7 AM. During those years I had a 4 month - 3 year old and was also up with the baby 2-3 times a night. I also tried to bill at least 4 hours over weekend naptimes and got up early on weekend mornings to bill until the kids woke up. You have to give up sleeping to make it work. I billed about 2200 hours a year with a 45 hour a week nanny and a supportive, but working FT, spouse.

This. It is a hell of a way to exist.

[Anonymous]

Can you get an au pair and also hire a part time nanny/housekeeper?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op back. I don't think I can go.to government. Opportunities are sparse on usajobs and I've applied for 6 months without a bite.

I also can't hire another nanny -- as a 3rd year with a lot of debt, we are barely making ends meet with one full time nanny.

Yes, I did think my firm would be more family friendly. I chose this firm because during the interview, every single MALE partner told me that he either did drop off or pick up every single day and that I'd be fine with two young children. I now see that they were less than honest -- they do drop off or pick-up WHEN they have time which is not the normal.

I did BigLaw with kids. I billed at least three hours every night after bedtime (9 PM - midnight), including all weekends. I was up at 6 AM every morning and left for work by 7 AM. During those years I had a 4 month - 3 year old and was also up with the baby 2-3 times a night. I also tried to bill at least 4 hours over weekend naptimes and got up early on weekend mornings to bill until the kids woke up. You have to give up sleeping to make it work. I billed about 2200 hours a year with a 45 hour a week nanny and a supportive, but working FT, spouse.

This. It is a hell of a way to exist.

I know people who make or made this work too, but it's also practice area dependent. My friend who does trusts and estates can pull it off. I am a securities lawyer and we had a lot of deals launch at 4 when the market closed, and generally got a lot of work in the early evening. I was very busy from 4 until 8 or 9 most days, so there's no way I could have gone home and done bedtime and then signed back in (which is why I switched to government - but I was a 7th year when I switched and didn't have kids until after).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harsh question: Why did you think your experience in Big Law would be different than those you've read about in Above the Law, etc.? Nothing that you've described is remotely outside the norm of expectations. It was foolish for you to try to attempt the impossible with young children. You need to get out now - or wait until you are given the boot with 3 months severance to find something more realistic for your stage in life.

I know this sounds mean, but I get so tired of my associates thinking the rules/expectations don't apply to them. I guarantee your partners feel the same about you.

+10000

What, Op, did you really think you could "have it all?" Guess the jokes on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op back. I don't think I can go.to government. Opportunities are sparse on usajobs and I've applied for 6 months without a bite.

I also can't hire another nanny -- as a 3rd year with a lot of debt, we are barely making ends meet with one full time nanny.

Yes, I did think my firm would be more family friendly. I chose this firm because during the interview, every single MALE partner told me that he either did drop off or pick up every single day and that I'd be fine with two young children. I now see that they were less than honest -- they do drop off or pick-up WHEN they have time which is not the normal.

Try harder. Your job isn't working for you and there most likely isn't anything that can be done about it unless you plan on giving up your kids for adoption. You'll most likely get pushed out and you'll kick yourself for spending more time in a soil sucking job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem, OP, is that these are really your prime years for your career development. If you can put in 3-5 years at your firm you will have so many more options. Right now you aren't very valuable to any employer because you don't know much. If you leave now you risk stunting your career growth long term. If you can stick it out, you can lay the foundation for longer term career growth. Can your husband lean out for a few years?

These are also her prime years to be a mother.

[Anonymous]

Op don't be so quick to assume you can't make major changes in your life. You're in control of your life. I realize you have law school debt but as long as you can make the payments, that shouldn't stop you from changing careers. You sound miserable and should do something about it. Even if it means selling your house and moving into a rental. Selling cars. Do whatever it takes. You only live one life and this is no way to live it. I'd even apply for jobs in other cities. Do NOT have your spouse quit his job. No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op back. I don't think I can go.to government. Opportunities are sparse on usajobs and I've applied for 6 months without a bite.

I also can't hire another nanny -- as a 3rd year with a lot of debt, we are barely making ends meet with one full time nanny.

Yes, I did think my firm would be more family friendly. I chose this firm because during the interview, every single MALE partner told me that he either did drop off or pick up every single day and that I'd be fine with two young children. I now see that they were less than honest -- they do drop off or pick-up WHEN they have time which is not the normal.

Try harder. Your job isn't working for you and there most likely isn't anything that can be done about it unless you plan on giving up your kids for adoption. You'll most likely get pushed out and you'll kick yourself for spending more time in a soil sucking job.

There is a hiring freeze in effect at a lot of agencies. It's not that easy to lateral to in house or govt with little experience. But it is possible, with perseverance.

[Anonymous]

Op, others are overcharging ... all those "Billable Hours" aren't happening, not as reported. Either act as others do and make peace with it, or get out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, others are overcharging ... all those "Billable Hours" aren't happening, not as reported. Either act as others do and make peace with it, or get out.

I always wondered how prevalent this was when I was at the law firm. I never did it but I was working all the time and would barely hit 2000 hours per year.

[Anonymous]

If you haven't already done so, you may want to widen your job search to include non-legal government jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, others are overcharging ... all those "Billable Hours" aren't happening, not as reported. Either act as others do and make peace with it, or get out.

I always wondered how prevalent this was when I was at the law firm. I never did it but I was working all the time and would barely hit 2000 hours per year.

Out of curiosity, why is this? Were you doing a ton of non-billable stuff? Or were there stretches where you'd be at the office but just didn't have billable projects to work on?