Junior associate at Big Law -- help!

[Anonymous]

So question for those of you who work in Big Lot why did Op get stuck with pro bono cases that she can't believe she's behind on hours? Is this a kind of sabotage for junior associates they want to wash out?

[Anonymous]

No biglaw firm is going to "pressure" first-years to take on tons of pro bono work in order to sabatoge those they want to wash out. That's crazy.

My guess is she either said "yes" to too many different projects, or she is one of those people who just spends too much time on certain tasks (research, memo writing) that she needs to get more efficient at.

Those type of inefficiencies have a tendency to pile up on pro bono cases, where no one is minding the meter in the same way as where there is a paying client. If you spend 30 hours doing a research assignment on a pro bono case, you may not get any pushback. If you do that on a billable matter, you'll probably get taken to task rather quickly.

[Anonymous]

This thread has some interesting responses. I am an income partner at a Big Firm and few people really start pumping along before 10am. Many stay late or work from home in the evenings. I am a work from home sort of person, and I have a dazzlingly depressing work station down in my basement.

My feeling has always been that billing close to or just over 2000 hours a year is really not that hard if the work is available. That is the part that can be challenging. The sweet spots seems to be like years 4-5.85 ish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still hung up on the amount of time being spent to "set up the computer."

Haha, same. OP must be 80 years old.

That's not very nice. BUT, having been an associate and a partner, I (and most lawyers reading this know) know what she's doing. She's putting in fake "face time". She gets to the office at 9 so she can turn on the lights, throw her jacket over the chair (most men do this), mess some papers around, then "set up her computer" (yes, two seconds). Now it looks like she is in the office at 9:00 when she's actually really there at 10:00. Everyone in bigfirm law knows these tricks. Some guys even leave a second jacket on the back of their chair and lights on so if anyone walks by their office at midnight, it looks like he's still at work somewhere in the firm

That’s not a “law” thing....it's an “office” thing, in basically every field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm still hung up on the amount of time being spent to "set up the computer."

Haha, same. OP must be 80 years old.

That's not very nice. BUT, having been an associate and a partner, I (and most lawyers reading this know) know what she's doing. She's putting in fake "face time". She gets to the office at 9 so she can turn on the lights, throw her jacket over the chair (most men do this), mess some papers around, then "set up her computer" (yes, two seconds). Now it looks like she is in the office at 9:00 when she's actually really there at 10:00. Everyone in bigfirm law knows these tricks. Some guys even leave a second jacket on the back of their chair and lights on so if anyone walks by their office at midnight, it looks like he's still at work somewhere in the firm

That’s not a “law” thing....it's an “office” thing, in basically every field.

I can't imagine a work environment where this is something you would have to do or even feel compelled to do. Many firms with patent prosecution practices in the DC area have JP trainees. It has slowed down drastically in recent years, but we used to have trainees do the whole fake sleeping at their desk thing. It is a thing in Japan. Then, like clock work, I explained that nobody is going to notice that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former Biglaw associate here. It sounds like you either need to go in house or to a government role, or you need to lean way in and your DH needs to scale back or quit and take over the majority of domestic responsibilities. Part time in Biglaw is a useless concept at most firms/in most practice areas. Most people end up working more hours than they are technically required to, while sacrificing the opportunity to advance. It's just not reasonable to expect to control your hours in a client-facing role. I billed 2200-2400 hours/year for the six years I was in Biglaw, and was middle of the pack at my firm. I quit and went to government before having my first child because I knew I couldn't perform up to expectations and care for a child without two nannies and a full time housekeeper (my practice area involves a lot of night time work), and my husband travels every week. One note about in house: choose carefully because some of these companies also have brutal hours. So those are the options: you scale back, your DH scales back so you can step up professionally, or you both lean in and you hire more help.

Two nannies and a full time housekeeper is EXACTLY right. That's really the only way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, others are overcharging ... all those "Billable Hours" aren't happening, not as reported. Either act as others do and make peace with it, or get out.

Not true. And super unethical. Don't do this OP. It will cost you your job, your career and your integrity.

FWIW My DH billed 3000 hours and not one hour was made up. It's extreme, I know, but what he had to do. We just never saw him at home. Ever. Out the door by 8am home at midnight M-F with 8 hour days on weekends and ample travel for trials during which he routinely pulled all nighters. In the 3 years he was at the firm, he aged 15 years. Lack of sleep causes real issues. Add incredible amounts of stress and general assholery of your colleagues, and it's what heart attacks at 40 are made of. Plus, he never saw his son.

He worked his personal network, hard!, for a year and also worked with a headhunter to find an in-house position that required us to move cross country. Though it was an old law school peer that he reached out to via LinkedIn that helped him get a foot in the door. I work form home so that wasn't an issue. If you can open up your search to other areas, especially those with lower costs of living, your life will improve dramatically. I know the PTO is hiring lawyers like.crazy. Also, can you can transfer within your firm to a smaller office? We had friends who did this and often the pressure is a lot less though opportunity can also diminish.

If you decide to stay, you need swing childcare. Not a full time nanny but more like a relief babysitter who can be there for you when your nanny needs to leave and on weekends. Think of a college student(s) etc. who you can pay cash by the hour. Also, pull in family help. Get a parent to come for a week and take over all care including meals and housework and use that time as a power week at work. Bill 80+ hours and you'll be feeling good. Get a real deal mentor at work. Someone who can usher you through these tough years and show you the light. Finally, and this is long term advice, use your network to bring in a client. Even if it's a small one this could be a huge gold star for you and shows them partnership potential. Rely on friends and family here to help jumpstart your search.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

This thread resonated with me when I first saw it. I’m a 5th year and have one DD. I commute too. Anyways, how’s it going op?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former Biglaw associate here. It sounds like you either need to go in house or to a government role, or you need to lean way in and your DH needs to scale back or quit and take over the majority of domestic responsibilities. Part time in Biglaw is a useless concept at most firms/in most practice areas. Most people end up working more hours than they are technically required to, while sacrificing the opportunity to advance. It's just not reasonable to expect to control your hours in a client-facing role. I billed 2200-2400 hours/year for the six years I was in Biglaw, and was middle of the pack at my firm. I quit and went to government before having my first child because I knew I couldn't perform up to expectations and care for a child without two nannies and a full time housekeeper (my practice area involves a lot of night time work), and my husband travels every week. One note about in house: choose carefully because some of these companies also have brutal hours. So those are the options: you scale back, your DH scales back so you can step up professionally, or you both lean in and you hire more help.

Two nannies and a full time housekeeper is EXACTLY right. That's really the only way.

A partner I worked with had three nannies - day, night, and weekend. The firm LOVED her.

[Anonymous]

Why is big law such a stupid ass profession?

Seriously.. why do you bill so many hours? How are you even productive for so many hours per day?

None of this makes sense. Don't get how this culture came to be this way

[Anonymous]

I’m a 5th year and I just effing miss my hours. I’ve never made hours. I still have a job. Only switched firms once (more than 2 years ago). One of the old DC “big four.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a 5th year and I just effing miss my hours. I’ve never made hours. I still have a job. Only switched firms once (more than 2 years ago). One of the old DC “big four.”

What is your requirement and how many do you bill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is big law such a stupid ass profession?

Seriously.. why do you bill so many hours? How are you even productive for so many hours per day?

None of this makes sense. Don't get how this culture came to be this way

I wonder this too!!! Someone should make a spin off thread on this question.