Accommodation Nation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:40% Stanford students have accommendations. This is not normal.

It's cheating.

But the schools are in on it with the College Board.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not fun or easy to schedule tests and plan around accommodations and the majority of students with accommodations are not getting extra time to test so much as extra time to cope with any number of stressors that other students have never experienced. I am sure someone out there is abusing the system but the majority of 504 students are not. And “giving everyone the extra time” is not fair to the kid with accommodations but many teachers do it.

Serious question: why do kids with low processing speed have a right to go to elite schools? Plenty of colleges out there…

Why do you incorrectly equate low processing speed with lack of intelligence? Elite universities want intellectual leaders, not those who can click through a multiple choice test the fastest.

Processing speed is a big part of IQ. Actually, you cannot have a very high IQ with low processing speed. Processing speed is super “g-loaded.” Nothing incorrect about that.

Wrong. There are people with very low processing speeds who have very high IQs. Some studies have found that up to 20% of gifted individuals may have slower processing speeds. Try reading some actual scientific literature--for example about neural efficiency, which suggests that highly intelligent individuals might actually use their brain resources more efficiently, resulting in what appears to be slower processing.

Cite me research that states processing speed is not g-loaded. Still waiting…

Try reading instead of bloviating.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0149763409000591
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-05378-x

You are joking, right? Neural efficiency is directly correlated with processing speed as measured on IQ tests. Wow, you are a dunce.

The higher the IQ (higher processing speed), the more neural efficiency. Thank you for again making the opposite point you were trying to make. What are you, a high school kid? A college frosh. Later, as I have better things to do with my time…

Again, try reading rather than bloviating. And feel free to cite the source that equates IQ to processing speed (Hint: you can't because it doesn't exist (and because you're a dunce). This article might explain it to you if you are capable of reading it.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4365474/#:~:text=Empirically%2C%20processing%20speed%20at%20the,et%20al.%2C%202010).

[Anonymous]

My T1D student gets accommodations and he’s at an Ivy. It’s something his Endo demanded be on record. He’s never used them- not in HS or college.

So, I realize there are those who truly need them, others who are taking advantage of the system but there is a third group; one that has them but doesn’t utilize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:40% Stanford students have accommendations. This is not normal.

A good chunk of those are not academic accommodations, but are allergy/medical/physical accommodations. Like private rooms, ESAs, waivers allowing otherwise-banned appliances for medical needs, etc.

[Anonymous]

I find the whole thing ridiculous and frustrating. The point of a timed test is to test your ability to do something under time pressure. Regardless of the reason, if you can’t perform then you should get a lower score. If professors want to test your ability to deliver a work product regardless of time pressure, they can give everyone a 24 hour take home exam.

I get it - some people are lousy under pressure, or can’t perform under certain circumstances - then you should go find something else to do that meets your abilities.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Yeah, no. You don’t know what you are talking about. The basis for “extended time” is the discrepancy between academic achievement and an IQ test only when adequate academic progress is not being made. . The vast majority of IQ tests have a timed component. The fact that you do not know that is, to say the least, revealing.

The SAT, as the College Board explicitly states, is an achievement test. It's why they dropped "aptitude" from the label.

"The SAT is an achievement test that measures the knowledge and skills students learn in high school that are needed for college and career success."

https://research.collegeboard.org/reports/sat-suite/concordance/higher-ed-brief-clt-sat

Wechsler is the most widely used intelligence test. In the WAIS-IV, there are 15 subtests. Of these, five or six are timed (the majority of which are processing speed subtests, so duh). The remainder are not.

While there are 15 subtests, the subtests there are only 7 that make up the FULL scale IQ score and three more that are really given as well to make up the standard battery of ten subtests. Out of these 10, 7 are timed, have time limits or you are exposed to the item for a certain amount of seconds.

Similarities (not timed, find how words go together)
Vocabulary (not timed, define words)
Block Design (timed, bonus for faster performance)
Matrix Reasoning
Figure Weights (timed limit on each question) another fluid reasoning test
Digit Sequencing (only can listen once at set speed of digits dictated)
Coding (timed)

3 more make up the most common 5 Index Scores - Verbal, Spatial, Fluid, Working Memory and Processing Speed
Picture Span (only shown for set time limit)
Visual Puzzles (time limit)
Symbol Search (timed)


Someone earlier posted the reason for getting extra time for a ridiculous amount of students. They don't catch on as quickly as other students in AP/honors classes so without accommodations they would be B/C students in those classes. Or the parents think it isn't fair their children have to study more than the students who catch on to that subject really quickly. That used to be acceptable for many parents but now it isn't so they get testing. Often their full scale IQ is around 105 to 115 (around 63rd to 84th percentile rank). The outside psychologist writes it up as if any low subtest score shouldn't be counted so their "real" IQ score should be higher. So they diagnosis a disability and advocate the student should get accommodations.

You know who rarely gets accommodations? Asian students. Most Asian parents don't buy into the whole IQ concept and tell their kids - work harder. Their mindset is - If it takes you twice as long to get an A, that is the amount you need to study. If you need to work all summer to preview a class to understand it, then we will get all the books you want so you can study and we are going to insist that you do. It is hard to score low in processing speed if you have done Kumon math for 5+ years. It is all about speed and accuracy page after page after page.

And when you do that over a lifetime, your IQ actually increases. There have been several studies that show IQ is malleable.

You want rich white kids to actually work harder?

Is this a joke?

[Anonymous]

I have particular horror for some of the anxiety accommodations, because the way to overcome anxiety is by repeated exposure to the stressor, and you magnify the problem by sending the message that oh, that's right, this is terrible and you are right to feel bad about it, and here, have all these special benefits.

I write this as the parent of someone with selective mutism, btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40% Stanford students have accommendations. This is not normal.

A good chunk of those are not academic accommodations, but are allergy/medical/physical accommodations. Like private rooms, ESAs, waivers allowing otherwise-banned appliances for medical needs, etc.

+100

The majority are which is why the article is stuoud click-bait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have particular horror for some of the anxiety accommodations, because the way to overcome anxiety is by repeated exposure to the stressor, and you magnify the problem by sending the message that oh, that's right, this is terrible and you are right to feel bad about it, and here, have all these special benefits.

I write this as the parent of someone with selective mutism, btw.

I agree this one is incredibly problematic. I noticed this shift during Covid, as a lot of people developed health and social anxiety during that time. As someone who has had anxiety issues for 30+ years, it's been weird to watch everyone collectively decide that anxiety is "valid" (even when it is objectively irrational) and that we all have to defer to the anxious person's dysfunctional thinking patterns.

Now, there have been many times in my life when I have wished people would be more understanding, or at least less hostile, to my anxiety. I've been told things like "you're being stupid" or variations on that theme many times in my life. My anxiety is the result of growing up in an unhappy home with a dad who yelled and hit, and a mom who cried and worried. So yeah, it is nice when people are a bit more tolerant of anxiety and don't approach with so little patience or understanding.

But that said, I generally don't want my anxiety accommodated. It holds me back. That's the whole problem. I've worked hard to learn strategies for overcoming anxiety so that I can do new things, take risks, make friends, and build relationships. If people had just accommodated my anxiety my whole life I wouldn't be married or be a mom, I'd like still live near my abusive family instead of far away, and I'd probably be a lot less active and fit (a lot of my anxiety is around doing physical things). While it would have been great if people had been nicer about it, I'm glad for the most people didn't baby me or my anxiety and instead held me to the same standards as everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the neuropsychological exams are hard to get (waiting lists etc) and expensive. Like several thousand dollars. So kids who need them often can't get them unless their parents are rich.

We need the public school system paying for more of these tests for kids who are not rich.

Please. If you're in a major metro area, there are plenty of these fake PhDs who could fit you in this week to provide the DX you are looking for. They will be expensive, yes, but there is an entire cottage industry that is thriving off of all of this.

And no, we don't need public funding for this. We need for this to go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks to IDEA and 504, more students with disabilities are able to graduate from high school and go to college than ever before. This is a *good* thing.

This.

But let's cut to the chase. More kids are able to learn because of IDEA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40% Stanford students have accommendations. This is not normal.

A good chunk of those are not academic accommodations, but are allergy/medical/physical accommodations. Like private rooms, ESAs, waivers allowing otherwise-banned appliances for medical needs, etc.

Still, you don't find it unusual that almost 1/2 the students at a large university have a disability?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find the whole thing ridiculous and frustrating. The point of a timed test is to test your ability to do something under time pressure. Regardless of the reason, if you can’t perform then you should get a lower score. If professors want to test your ability to deliver a work product regardless of time pressure, they can give everyone a 24 hour take home exam.

I get it - some people are lousy under pressure, or can’t perform under certain circumstances - then you should go find something else to do that meets your abilities.

Typical idiocy when anything related to people with disabilities is posted anywhere other than the sns forum. Our kids have to deal with these fools, who no matter what, are going to view such people as less than. That it what you are saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is the neuropsychological exams are hard to get (waiting lists etc) and expensive. Like several thousand dollars. So kids who need them often can't get them unless their parents are rich.

We need the public school system paying for more of these tests for kids who are not rich.

Please. If you're in a major metro area, there are plenty of these fake PhDs who could fit you in this week to provide the DX you are looking for. They will be expensive, yes, but there is an entire cottage industry that is thriving off of all of this.

And no, we don't need public funding for this. We need for this to go away.

For awhile there was a name going around our private for a psychologist who would give you a any diagnosis you want within 2 weeks for $8K.
I'm not making this up.

Because of behavior like this, many area privates now require that you use one of their approved psychologists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40% Stanford students have accommendations. This is not normal.

A good chunk of those are not academic accommodations, but are allergy/medical/physical accommodations. Like private rooms, ESAs, waivers allowing otherwise-banned appliances for medical needs, etc.

Still, you don't find it unusual that almost 1/2 the students at a large university have a disability?

No. I think it’s great that schools are finally making learning more accessible to people who are still intelligent and valuable despite having a chronic illness, limited mobility, dyslexia, or whatever else.