Two Jews (Peter Beinart and Jon Stewart) discuss Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it was an interesting conversation at a pivotal time. I'm Jewish, very pro-Israel but I hate Netanyahu and what he's done to our Palestinian neighbors. I wish they had talked about how Hamas has still not release 50 remaining hostages (or their bodies): that would end the famine right away. But the Netanyahu government isn't doing anyone any favors right now and needs to change. It makes all of us look bad and endangers all of us as such.

How are you so certain that releasing the remaining hostages “would end the famine right away?” Isn’t it at least as likely that once the hostages have been released Netanyahu will destroy the remaining Palestinians?

Exactly, that's why Israel has rejected most of the hostage deals and why they don't care if the hostages starve or get killed by indiscriminate bombing. The goal has always been to wipe out Gaza and resettle and the justification for this can only occur so long as there are hostages. Not a very a very complicated or difficult concept to see.

I’m so sorry that you believe the lies you have been fed about Israel. Israel has no desire to “wipe out Gaza and resettle.” There are some lunatic fringe people who talk about this (Smotich) but most of Israel wants no part of it. They just want their people back from Gaza (both hostages an d soldiers) and peaceful coexistence with their Palestinian neighbors.

This is a very horrible war that was started by Hamas (who are Palestinians by the way). Hamas knew what would happen to Gaza if it started this war and did it anyway. You are right that the war may go on if the hostages are released. Hamas will also need to disarm. Once the hostages are released and Hamas disarms, this war will end. There will be lots of rebuilding to do and education of Palestinians not to hate Jews. The Palestinians were given an independent state back in 2005. Instead of living peacefully and building a nation, they have been firing rockets at Israel. The only reason Israel does what it does in Gaza and the West Bank is to avert terrorism. If the terrorism would stop, both Palestinians and Israelis could live peacefully side by side in their own countries.

This is an alarming amount of bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it was an interesting conversation at a pivotal time. I'm Jewish, very pro-Israel but I hate Netanyahu and what he's done to our Palestinian neighbors. I wish they had talked about how Hamas has still not release 50 remaining hostages (or their bodies): that would end the famine right away. But the Netanyahu government isn't doing anyone any favors right now and needs to change. It makes all of us look bad and endangers all of us as such.

How are you so certain that releasing the remaining hostages “would end the famine right away?” Isn’t it at least as likely that once the hostages have been released Netanyahu will destroy the remaining Palestinians?

Exactly, that's why Israel has rejected most of the hostage deals and why they don't care if the hostages starve or get killed by indiscriminate bombing. The goal has always been to wipe out Gaza and resettle and the justification for this can only occur so long as there are hostages. Not a very a very complicated or difficult concept to see.

I’m so sorry that you believe the lies you have been fed about Israel. Israel has no desire to “wipe out Gaza and resettle.” There are some lunatic fringe people who talk about this (Smotich) but most of Israel wants no part of it. They just want their people back from Gaza (both hostages an d soldiers) and peaceful coexistence with their Palestinian neighbors.

This is a very horrible war that was started by Hamas (who are Palestinians by the way). Hamas knew what would happen to Gaza if it started this war and did it anyway. You are right that the war may go on if the hostages are released. Hamas will also need to disarm. Once the hostages are released and Hamas disarms, this war will end. There will be lots of rebuilding to do and education of Palestinians not to hate Jews. The Palestinians were given an independent state back in 2005. Instead of living peacefully and building a nation, they have been firing rockets at Israel. The only reason Israel does what it does in Gaza and the West Bank is to avert terrorism. If the terrorism would stop, both Palestinians and Israelis could live peacefully side by side in their own countries.

Bibi is proving you wrong today.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-gaza-relocation-south-sudan-15191c194cb6f972bc627a382d830edd
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/israel-wants-send-gazans-south-134623094.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/ap-report-israel-is-in-talks-to-possibly-resettle-palestinians-from-gaza-in-south-sudan

[Anonymous]

We know now “never again” just meant to “never again to the Jews.” They are more than willing to commit genocide against others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

But these two things are not like the other. No one gives Americans a right to return to Scotland or Northern Ireland simply because they may be Presbyterian. And we are expected, rightly so, to extend the same privileges to all legal residents of the United States. Not the case in Israel, much less in the occupied territories.

You can frame this in terms of power politics, as you did, but the double standard probably is not sustainable.

Agree. This whole "homeland" and "birthright" business is insanity. Downright sociopathic. I would never, ever think I have some entitlement to the land my ancestors came from a century ago, let alone thousands of years ago. That takes an alarming level of entitlement. Whether Israel, or any other place on earth.

Entitlement? Well yes. Israel, an independent nation is entitled to make its own rules about immigration just like every other independent country try in the world. Why not?

Lololol, what? Israel is most definitely NOT an independent nation. Is is a financial parasite of the United States.

As to "why not" well because it's not like Israel was some vacant peice of unhinhabited land when it was created. People, you know, lived there. Still live there.

Well you can think all this you want but if Israel considers itself a sovereign nation that has diplomatic ties with other that yes, involve money (shocker!), and it not seeking to dismantle itself put of existence. Nothing you can do. I would love for my noisy downstairs neighbor to move out but I can't make him, for example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

Israel exists primarily because of the backing of the US and other western nations. Without that support, Israel would not likely stand on its own if the rest of the middle east engaged in a sustained campaign against them.

This. Israel likely can't exist without US money. End ALL financial and arms aid to Israel, and let's register AIPAC as a foreign agent (since it is). Then, let the chips fall where they may.

Why? No reason to do this. This doesn't benefit the U.S. This change would benefit Iran and Russia but their happiness is not of my concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We know now “never again” just meant to “never again to the Jews.” They are more than willing to commit genocide against others.

seems like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

Israel exists primarily because of the backing of the US and other western nations. Without that support, Israel would not likely stand on its own if the rest of the middle east engaged in a sustained campaign against them.

This. Israel likely can't exist without US money. End ALL financial and arms aid to Israel, and let's register AIPAC as a foreign agent (since it is). Then, let the chips fall where they may.

Why? No reason to do this. This doesn't benefit the U.S. This change would benefit Iran and Russia but their happiness is not of my concern.

Because I, as a taxpayer, do not want my tax dollars going to fund the genocide while we are cutting medicaid and snap benefits for our children here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it was an interesting conversation at a pivotal time. I'm Jewish, very pro-Israel but I hate Netanyahu and what he's done to our Palestinian neighbors. I wish they had talked about how Hamas has still not release 50 remaining hostages (or their bodies): that would end the famine right away. But the Netanyahu government isn't doing anyone any favors right now and needs to change. It makes all of us look bad and endangers all of us as such.

How are you so certain that releasing the remaining hostages “would end the famine right away?” Isn’t it at least as likely that once the hostages have been released Netanyahu will destroy the remaining Palestinians?

Exactly, that's why Israel has rejected most of the hostage deals and why they don't care if the hostages starve or get killed by indiscriminate bombing. The goal has always been to wipe out Gaza and resettle and the justification for this can only occur so long as there are hostages. Not a very a very complicated or difficult concept to see.

The WSJ article about the young men starving and digging their own craves has made it hard for me to sleep tonight. As are the images of starving children. I can’t believe what these people are doing to each other. I came to this forum because I wanted to hear how anyone can believe in a God that is letting these things happen.

God is not letting these things happen anymore than we are- He gave human beings free will and we have collectively decided that it is ok for this sort of thing to happen. There is famine and mass murder in Sudan right now as well.
human beings are responsible for this- we have agency and responsibility and we choose this for ourselves. I don't know why people think belief in God means human get to be lazy and expect some supernatural force to come and save them- NOONE is coming to save us, we have the tools to save ourselves, God gave them to us both through our our own reason and intellect and through His messengers, that is the help that He gave us. we choose to do violence to ourselves, we choose to take more than we need, we choose to live immoral and unethical lives. and then we cast all responsibility for cleaning up the consequences of our own actions and choices on God. He's not a janitor- make a good and moral choice and own your own decisions- He gave you that power, use it. he also has told human beings that he isn't swooping into save us and that we have to own our own mess, so why are you expecting something different from the Master of the universe- He doesn't need us, this isn't Zues or Tinkerbell- God existed when there was a great Nothingness and He will exist after everything is gone.

we can choose to reject this suffering, we have that power and we have chosen to be better than we were before many times, we can do it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

Yup, this. They can't separate the man from his actions.

OK, Netanyahu will not be around forever, so he will be gone, and Israel will continue in the form it is. Same borders, same type of govt. But that is not what you want. So you are discussing the "man", but he is not your issue

well- it is a religious ethnostate- most Americans believe in a separation of Church and State. None of our other allies are religious ethnostates and there are certainly not weird laws about how some citizens (secular jews) have to be prepared to lay down their lives and serve in the armed forces while other groups need to be paid tax moneys to rock back and forth and read books. the whole structure looks ----weird and not a natural fit for what most Americans consider normal behavior.

also our country has a huge debt problem so a country where there is enough money to pay for huge families to sit around doing nothing but read religious books and pray doesn't need my hard earned cash to support it. this is a democracy and I can use my voice to persuade more and more of my fellow american citizens to agree with me and vote for politicians who spend out tax mosey right here in the USA. Right now this is not US policy but in the 1950s it was US policy that Taiwan was China and the PRC was an illegitimate nation, Americans are within our rights to change minds and you are within your rights to argue back. but you can't tell someone that they don't have the right to say that your religious ethnostate is weird like Iran and Saudi Arabia and all the other weird a$$ religious republics out there and we shouldn't have to pay you any money to exist. lots of cultures disappear- why should I care if there are no more hottentots or Israelis or liberians, this isn't my problem. I'm not white, my ancestors don't owe you anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed, but don’t you realize how difficult it is for your typical Jew in the DMV who adheres to Reform Judaism to come to terms with this?

Admittedly, I am not a Jew, but how in the world is it hard to come to terms with starving and murdering 20,000 children?????

The movement of Reform Judaism relaxed the strict rules of the religion to make it more harmounious with modern life.

Reform leaders also embraced Zionism and unequivocal support for Israel including immigration, study and cultural engagement. Many say Zionism replaced religious practice with state veneration.

"Many say" the Earth is flat, many say 9/11 didn't happen, and so on and so on.

Zionism seeks a homeland for Jews, a group historically defined by a religious identity,Judaism.To say it "replaces" religion implies that it is separate from or contrary to religion, yet it is built on the foundation of that very religious identity.

So what you say doesn't make sense. Even if you passionately want it to make sense.

well Theodore H and his zionist brethren were atheists as were most of the early zionists. They were part of the anarchist and communist movement and they actually came up with the idea moving to Palestine BECAUSE they were abandoning the Jewish tenet of the messiah coming and did not belive in the God worshipped by Abraham which is central part of judaism is it not? or can you be an observant jew and think Abraham and his god are fairytales???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

I'm a Jew who often agrees with Peter Beinart, but your question is problematic if you don't question the fact that there are literally more than 1 billion Muslims living in various Muslim countries that discriminate against non-Muslims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

Yup, this. They can't separate the man from his actions.

OK, Netanyahu will not be around forever, so he will be gone, and Israel will continue in the form it is. Same borders, same type of govt. But that is not what you want. So you are discussing the "man", but he is not your issue

well- it is a religious ethnostate- most Americans believe in a separation of Church and State. None of our other allies are religious ethnostates and there are certainly not weird laws about how some citizens (secular jews) have to be prepared to lay down their lives and serve in the armed forces while other groups need to be paid tax moneys to rock back and forth and read books. the whole structure looks ----weird and not a natural fit for what most Americans consider normal behavior.

also our country has a huge debt problem so a country where there is enough money to pay for huge families to sit around doing nothing but read religious books and pray doesn't need my hard earned cash to support it. this is a democracy and I can use my voice to persuade more and more of my fellow american citizens to agree with me and vote for politicians who spend out tax mosey right here in the USA. Right now this is not US policy but in the 1950s it was US policy that Taiwan was China and the PRC was an illegitimate nation, Americans are within our rights to change minds and you are within your rights to argue back. but you can't tell someone that they don't have the right to say that your religious ethnostate is weird like Iran and Saudi Arabia and all the other weird a$$ religious republics out there and we shouldn't have to pay you any money to exist. lots of cultures disappear- why should I care if there are no more hottentots or Israelis or liberians, this isn't my problem. I'm not white, my ancestors don't owe you anything.

Your opinion has been noted. The first 1000+ times you and your friends have stated it. The issue is that you pummel everyone with your opinion day in and day out every minute of the day, so this conveys no one is allowed to disagree with you. The U.S. is not allowed to disagree with you. So what now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it was an interesting conversation at a pivotal time. I'm Jewish, very pro-Israel but I hate Netanyahu and what he's done to our Palestinian neighbors. I wish they had talked about how Hamas has still not release 50 remaining hostages (or their bodies): that would end the famine right away. But the Netanyahu government isn't doing anyone any favors right now and needs to change. It makes all of us look bad and endangers all of us as such.

How are you so certain that releasing the remaining hostages “would end the famine right away?” Isn’t it at least as likely that once the hostages have been released Netanyahu will destroy the remaining Palestinians?

Exactly, that's why Israel has rejected most of the hostage deals and why they don't care if the hostages starve or get killed by indiscriminate bombing. The goal has always been to wipe out Gaza and resettle and the justification for this can only occur so long as there are hostages. Not a very a very complicated or difficult concept to see.

I’m so sorry that you believe the lies you have been fed about Israel. Israel has no desire to “wipe out Gaza and resettle.” There are some lunatic fringe people who talk about this (Smotich) but most of Israel wants no part of it. They just want their people back from Gaza (both hostages an d soldiers) and peaceful coexistence with their Palestinian neighbors.

This is a very horrible war that was started by Hamas (who are Palestinians by the way). Hamas knew what would happen to Gaza if it started this war and did it anyway. You are right that the war may go on if the hostages are released. Hamas will also need to disarm. Once the hostages are released and Hamas disarms, this war will end. There will be lots of rebuilding to do and education of Palestinians not to hate Jews. The Palestinians were given an independent state back in 2005. Instead of living peacefully and building a nation, they have been firing rockets at Israel. The only reason Israel does what it does in Gaza and the West Bank is to avert terrorism. If the terrorism would stop, both Palestinians and Israelis could live peacefully side by side in their own countries.

Both of the bolded are 100% wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

Yup, this. They can't separate the man from his actions.

OK, Netanyahu will not be around forever, so he will be gone, and Israel will continue in the form it is. Same borders, same type of govt. But that is not what you want. So you are discussing the "man", but he is not your issue

well- it is a religious ethnostate- most Americans believe in a separation of Church and State. None of our other allies are religious ethnostates and there are certainly not weird laws about how some citizens (secular jews) have to be prepared to lay down their lives and serve in the armed forces while other groups need to be paid tax moneys to rock back and forth and read books. the whole structure looks ----weird and not a natural fit for what most Americans consider normal behavior.

also our country has a huge debt problem so a country where there is enough money to pay for huge families to sit around doing nothing but read religious books and pray doesn't need my hard earned cash to support it. this is a democracy and I can use my voice to persuade more and more of my fellow american citizens to agree with me and vote for politicians who spend out tax mosey right here in the USA. Right now this is not US policy but in the 1950s it was US policy that Taiwan was China and the PRC was an illegitimate nation, Americans are within our rights to change minds and you are within your rights to argue back. but you can't tell someone that they don't have the right to say that your religious ethnostate is weird like Iran and Saudi Arabia and all the other weird a$$ religious republics out there and we shouldn't have to pay you any money to exist. lots of cultures disappear- why should I care if there are no more hottentots or Israelis or liberians, this isn't my problem. I'm not white, my ancestors don't owe you anything.

Your opinion has been noted. The first 1000+ times you and your friends have stated it. The issue is that you pummel everyone with your opinion day in and day out every minute of the day, so this conveys no one is allowed to disagree with you. The U.S. is not allowed to disagree with you. So what now?

DP, pummel? Explain to me why I should support Israel right now with the money I pay for taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Beinart is also the editor of Jewish Currents magazine, which is a super-lefty socialist publication. Still an interesting conversation, but I wouldn't say that either of them are representative of mainstream American Jews.

A lot of American Jews are lefties. Not sure why you don’t think these views are representative of a LOT of people.

American Jews have been trending to the political right since October 7, largely over the far-left's anti-Israel stance. There is, of course, room to be horrified by the starvation in Gaza and oppose Netanyahu's government. I just don't think that Beinart and Stewart are good spokespeople to do that, because they aren't representative of mainstream American Jewish views (largely), so it's hard to take them seriously on this serious issue. I will listen to Jon Stewart all day long when he's talking about support for 9/11 first responders, or another subject that he is clearly passionate about and can speak with authority. But he's used his Judaism as the butt of a joke so often that when he invokes his Judaism for something serious, like Israel-Gaza, it just doesn't feel sincere.

No, the American Jews that YOU associate with have become more right wing. Most of my Jewish friends are anti bibi and able to recognize that Israel is committing genocide.

These are not niche views. Maybe you need to chat with more Jews.

He doesn't want to. He wants to stick his head in the sand and "just be Jewish" because he secretly likes what Bibi is doing. That's why he is on this thread protesting when sane people (Jewish or not) are condemning what is happening in Gaza right now.

Ok...anyone can say they know what is going on in someone's head. I'll play--you like horses, but are too afraid to ride them! I know what you are thinking!

But regardless, people don't HAVE to agree with you that Israel needs to be destroyed. Their not agree with you is not a gotcha we have to be concerned about.

I LOVE how you're showing your true colors the more you post. Nowhere did anyone say in this entire thread that Israel needs to be destroyed. No one!!! You took the criticism of what Bibi is doing as "Israel needs to be destroyed." Nowhere did Beinart or Stewart call for that either. I am (as are many others) saying Isral needs to stop killing and starving innocent children and people in Gaza. To you, those things are the same. The only way for Israel to exist is to destroy Gaza and all of the people living there. You are a terrible human.

Yup, this. They can't separate the man from his actions.

OK, Netanyahu will not be around forever, so he will be gone, and Israel will continue in the form it is. Same borders, same type of govt. But that is not what you want. So you are discussing the "man", but he is not your issue

well- it is a religious ethnostate- most Americans believe in a separation of Church and State. None of our other allies are religious ethnostates and there are certainly not weird laws about how some citizens (secular jews) have to be prepared to lay down their lives and serve in the armed forces while other groups need to be paid tax moneys to rock back and forth and read books. the whole structure looks ----weird and not a natural fit for what most Americans consider normal behavior.

also our country has a huge debt problem so a country where there is enough money to pay for huge families to sit around doing nothing but read religious books and pray doesn't need my hard earned cash to support it. this is a democracy and I can use my voice to persuade more and more of my fellow american citizens to agree with me and vote for politicians who spend out tax mosey right here in the USA. Right now this is not US policy but in the 1950s it was US policy that Taiwan was China and the PRC was an illegitimate nation, Americans are within our rights to change minds and you are within your rights to argue back. but you can't tell someone that they don't have the right to say that your religious ethnostate is weird like Iran and Saudi Arabia and all the other weird a$$ religious republics out there and we shouldn't have to pay you any money to exist. lots of cultures disappear- why should I care if there are no more hottentots or Israelis or liberians, this isn't my problem. I'm not white, my ancestors don't owe you anything.

Your opinion has been noted. The first 1000+ times you and your friends have stated it. The issue is that you pummel everyone with your opinion day in and day out every minute of the day, so this conveys no one is allowed to disagree with you. The U.S. is not allowed to disagree with you. So what now?

DP, pummel? Explain to me why I should support Israel right now with the money I pay for taxes?

You don't have a choice. You can always give up your citizenship.

The point is, you have an opinion, and not everyone, certainly not all government officials agree with you. And that is OK.

Saying I don't like it over and over and over again, well we all can do that. I can say over and over and over again that it is nice to have the relationship we have with Israel. You can tell me otherwise again, then I will share my opinion again. We have all night.