Two Jews (Peter Beinart and Jon Stewart) discuss Israel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Really?

You think Israelis calling for "killing the (Palestinian) offspring to prevent them from creating more offspring" is pro-peace? And this is hardly a minority opinion in Israel.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DNKUe3Mu2y_/

Bullshit. Don't believe you at all. Should I just post something on Instagram showing Palestinians who want to kill Jews and then post it here to prove a point? This is bullshit. Palestinians are just as bad and they will never win or live in peace until they change their ways.

Wow. So you can only deflect? You can't call out her horrific comments? Something like 80% of Israelis approve of Netanyahu and IDF's brutalization of Gaza, so no, her opinion is not bullshit - it's common. And you are proof of that by being unable to call wrong a wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwQXBgK8qls

He's saying "Butcher the Jews. Kill them anywhere, in any country." That includes the US BTW. They are violent animals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Really?

You think Israelis calling for "killing the (Palestinian) offspring to prevent them from creating more offspring" is pro-peace? And this is hardly a minority opinion in Israel.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DNKUe3Mu2y_/

Bullshit. Don't believe you at all. Should I just post something on Instagram showing Palestinians who want to kill Jews and then post it here to prove a point? This is bullshit. Palestinians are just as bad and they will never win or live in peace until they change their ways.

Wow. So you can only deflect? You can't call out her horrific comments? Something like 80% of Israelis approve of Netanyahu and IDF's brutalization of Gaza, so no, her opinion is not bullshit - it's common. And you are proof of that by being unable to call wrong a wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwQXBgK8qls

I can call that out as reprehensible. Can you do the same, for Sofia Emuna?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

The were not displaced, homes taken, olive groves destroyed, families evacuated to live as refugees in Egypt and Jordan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Really?

You think Israelis calling for "killing the (Palestinian) offspring to prevent them from creating more offspring" is pro-peace? And this is hardly a minority opinion in Israel.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DNKUe3Mu2y_/

Bullshit. Don't believe you at all. Should I just post something on Instagram showing Palestinians who want to kill Jews and then post it here to prove a point? This is bullshit. Palestinians are just as bad and they will never win or live in peace until they change their ways.

Wow. So you can only deflect? You can't call out her horrific comments? Something like 80% of Israelis approve of Netanyahu and IDF's brutalization of Gaza, so no, her opinion is not bullshit - it's common. And you are proof of that by being unable to call wrong a wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwQXBgK8qls

I can call that out as reprehensible. Can you do the same, for Sofia Emuna?

So what say you? I can call out vile comments about Jews. What do you have to say about this Israeli who called for the extermination and total elimination of Palestinians specifically by killing the children?

https://www.instagram.com/p/DNKUe3Mu2y_/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Really?

You think Israelis calling for "killing the (Palestinian) offspring to prevent them from creating more offspring" is pro-peace? And this is hardly a minority opinion in Israel.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DNKUe3Mu2y_/

Bullshit. Don't believe you at all. Should I just post something on Instagram showing Palestinians who want to kill Jews and then post it here to prove a point? This is bullshit. Palestinians are just as bad and they will never win or live in peace until they change their ways.

Wow. So you can only deflect? You can't call out her horrific comments? Something like 80% of Israelis approve of Netanyahu and IDF's brutalization of Gaza, so no, her opinion is not bullshit - it's common. And you are proof of that by being unable to call wrong a wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwQXBgK8qls

I can call that out as reprehensible. Can you do the same, for Sofia Emuna?

So what say you? I can call out vile comments about Jews. What do you have to say about this Israeli who called for the extermination and total elimination of Palestinians specifically by killing the children?

https://www.instagram.com/p/DNKUe3Mu2y_/

bump. no response? does your silence speak for itself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

Israel exists primarily because of the backing of the US and other western nations. Without that support, Israel would not likely stand on its own if the rest of the middle east engaged in a sustained campaign against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

But these two things are not like the other. No one gives Americans a right to return to Scotland or Northern Ireland simply because they may be Presbyterian. And we are expected, rightly so, to extend the same privileges to all legal residents of the United States. Not the case in Israel, much less in the occupied territories.

You can frame this in terms of power politics, as you did, but the double standard probably is not sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

Israel exists primarily because of the backing of the US and other western nations. Without that support, Israel would not likely stand on its own if the rest of the middle east engaged in a sustained campaign against them.

This. Israel likely can't exist without US money. End ALL financial and arms aid to Israel, and let's register AIPAC as a foreign agent (since it is). Then, let the chips fall where they may.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

But these two things are not like the other. No one gives Americans a right to return to Scotland or Northern Ireland simply because they may be Presbyterian. And we are expected, rightly so, to extend the same privileges to all legal residents of the United States. Not the case in Israel, much less in the occupied territories.

You can frame this in terms of power politics, as you did, but the double standard probably is not sustainable.

Agree. This whole "homeland" and "birthright" business is insanity. Downright sociopathic. I would never, ever think I have some entitlement to the land my ancestors came from a century ago, let alone thousands of years ago. That takes an alarming level of entitlement. Whether Israel, or any other place on earth.

[Anonymous]

Why choose two anti Israel Jews? Why not pro Israel Jews who make up about 95% of the Jewish population?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it was an interesting conversation at a pivotal time. I'm Jewish, very pro-Israel but I hate Netanyahu and what he's done to our Palestinian neighbors. I wish they had talked about how Hamas has still not release 50 remaining hostages (or their bodies): that would end the famine right away. But the Netanyahu government isn't doing anyone any favors right now and needs to change. It makes all of us look bad and endangers all of us as such.

How are you so certain that releasing the remaining hostages “would end the famine right away?” Isn’t it at least as likely that once the hostages have been released Netanyahu will destroy the remaining Palestinians?

Exactly, that's why Israel has rejected most of the hostage deals and why they don't care if the hostages starve or get killed by indiscriminate bombing. The goal has always been to wipe out Gaza and resettle and the justification for this can only occur so long as there are hostages. Not a very a very complicated or difficult concept to see.

I’m so sorry that you believe the lies you have been fed about Israel. Israel has no desire to “wipe out Gaza and resettle.” There are some lunatic fringe people who talk about this (Smotich) but most of Israel wants no part of it. They just want their people back from Gaza (both hostages an d soldiers) and peaceful coexistence with their Palestinian neighbors.

This is a very horrible war that was started by Hamas (who are Palestinians by the way). Hamas knew what would happen to Gaza if it started this war and did it anyway. You are right that the war may go on if the hostages are released. Hamas will also need to disarm. Once the hostages are released and Hamas disarms, this war will end. There will be lots of rebuilding to do and education of Palestinians not to hate Jews. The Palestinians were given an independent state back in 2005. Instead of living peacefully and building a nation, they have been firing rockets at Israel. The only reason Israel does what it does in Gaza and the West Bank is to avert terrorism. If the terrorism would stop, both Palestinians and Israelis could live peacefully side by side in their own countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

But these two things are not like the other. No one gives Americans a right to return to Scotland or Northern Ireland simply because they may be Presbyterian. And we are expected, rightly so, to extend the same privileges to all legal residents of the United States. Not the case in Israel, much less in the occupied territories.

You can frame this in terms of power politics, as you did, but the double standard probably is not sustainable.

Agree. This whole "homeland" and "birthright" business is insanity. Downright sociopathic. I would never, ever think I have some entitlement to the land my ancestors came from a century ago, let alone thousands of years ago. That takes an alarming level of entitlement. Whether Israel, or any other place on earth.

Entitlement? Well yes. Israel, an independent nation is entitled to make its own rules about immigration just like every other independent country try in the world. Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.

Question: Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel) that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others? What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza. It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads.

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it.

But these two things are not like the other. No one gives Americans a right to return to Scotland or Northern Ireland simply because they may be Presbyterian. And we are expected, rightly so, to extend the same privileges to all legal residents of the United States. Not the case in Israel, much less in the occupied territories.

You can frame this in terms of power politics, as you did, but the double standard probably is not sustainable.

Agree. This whole "homeland" and "birthright" business is insanity. Downright sociopathic. I would never, ever think I have some entitlement to the land my ancestors came from a century ago, let alone thousands of years ago. That takes an alarming level of entitlement. Whether Israel, or any other place on earth.

Entitlement? Well yes. Israel, an independent nation is entitled to make its own rules about immigration just like every other independent country try in the world. Why not?

Lololol, what? Israel is most definitely NOT an independent nation. Is is a financial parasite of the United States.

As to "why not" well because it's not like Israel was some vacant peice of unhinhabited land when it was created. People, you know, lived there. Still live there.