Reply to Two Jews (Peter Beinart and Jon Stewart) discuss Israel

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It's the Palestinians who don't want a Jewish homeland or for Israel to exist. That's why the two-state solution is a joke.[/quote]

Israel used to be entirely surrounded by other states who didn’t want it to exist. It now has peace treaties and normal relations with most of them. The occupation hasn’t brought real peace for Israelis, and it’s also brought utter hell for Palestinians. Maybe it’s time to try something new instead?[/quote]

Yes, it's time for the Palestinians to agree to live in peace with Israel. What do you think the difference is between the Palestinians and the other countries who now have normal relations with Israel? It's the Palestinians' stated goal to destroy Israel. They need to give up, put down their arms and agree to live in peace just like all the other countries.[/quote]

Well, as a Jew who doesn't want Israel to be a global pariah, I'm mostly worried about what Israel can do differently. And I think there's plenty of room for change there.[/quote]

Question:  [b]Why do so many Jews think they should have the option of living in a Jewish state (Israel)[/b] that blatantly discriminates against non-Jews or living in pluralistic societies where Jews have the same rights as others?  What’s to say the U.S. shouldn’t follow Israel’s lead and become a Christian state that treats Jews and other non-Christiansthe same way that Israel treats non-Jews?

Anyway people like Beinart and Stewart arguably provide a useful service because other Jews can point at them and say “look at how we’re morally conflicted and capable of self-criticism” - while Israel continues to engage in a genocide in Gaza.  It starts to feel like a “good cop, bad cop” routine when decent people really just want Israel’s genocide to cease with those responsible held accountable before international bodies - not more talking heads. [/quote]

They have the option because Israel exists. I have the option to live in the United States because it exists. You can't force a country not to exists unless you go to war against it. [/quote]

But these two things are not like the other.  No one gives Americans a right to return to Scotland or Northern Ireland simply because they may be Presbyterian.   And we are expected, rightly so, to extend the same privileges to all legal residents of the United States.  Not the case in Israel, much less in the occupied territories.

You can frame this in terms of power politics, as you did, but the double standard probably is not sustainable. [/quote]

Agree. This whole "homeland" and "birthright" business is insanity.  Downright sociopathic. I would never, ever think I have some entitlement to the land my ancestors came from a century ago, let alone thousands of years ago. That takes an alarming level of entitlement. Whether Israel, or any other place on earth. 
[/quote]

Entitlement? Well yes. Israel, an[b] independent nation[/b] is entitled to make its own rules about immigration just like every other independent country try in the world. Why not? [/quote]

Lololol, what? Israel is most definitely NOT an independent nation. Is is a financial parasite of the United States.

As to "why not" well because it's not like Israel was some vacant peice of unhinhabited land when it was created. People, you know, lived there. Still live there. [/quote]

Well you can think all this you want but if Israel considers itself a sovereign nation that has diplomatic ties with other that yes, involve money (shocker!), and it not seeking to dismantle itself put of existence. Nothing you can do. I would love for my noisy downstairs neighbor to move out but I can't make him, for example.[/quote]

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