How to fix our crisis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

Almost nobody uses Calculus in the real world.

This is not a reason to teach subjects. We have a functionally illiterate society. Doesn’t mean it’s okay to stop teaching English since you can get away with not being good at it.

What is more useful, Calculus or Probability/Combinatorics?

We can’t get kids to do precalculus and you want them to do combinatorics?

Sure, things like probability distributions, confidence intervals, how to interpret data, permutations, n pick k, etc. More useful than Calculus for most people. BTW, I took a ton of calculus, real analysis, complex analysis, etc. in college.

Much, much more useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

Which ones do you think it would fix?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.

“Calculus is useless” is exactly why our education system is so bad. So many parents happy to have ignorant kids.

NP. I see that the "only STEM matters, only STEM careers are valid careers" folks are here. Sure, there is nothing else on Earth of value except your beloved STEM, and calculus is essential to every possible way of life.

And my Ph.D.s in both math and physics spouse agrees with me, not you, by the way. STEM is not the be-all and end-all of jobs or life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As much as we talk about the difficulty of college admissions, American high school students are not learning enough content to compete in a global market. The SAT is not rigorous and barely tests at a pre-calculus level. Our students are dropping out of STEM programs like flies, and students aren’t graduating with the skills needed to compete in the entry level market. What reforms should we make?

The real crisis is how we keep bots, trolls and shills from destroying DCUM. Maybe we can mirror propaganda back at you folks and cause you to make yourselves go away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watched the stand up special from Ronny Chieng last night and he had a really funny bit about how his MAGA friends are willing to die for America but there not willing to do math homework for America, and what America really needs is more people who are willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy.
I’m not doing it justice but it was both funny and very smart.

There's no need to bring politics into this, but since you did... tell us all about the abysmal schools and test scores of urban inner-city kids. Are they "willing to do their math homework" and "willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy"? We'll wait.

Of course you bring urban kids in first. The dog whistle is really getting slobber all over it from the people on this forum. Could’ve talked about anyone else.

Found someone else who is completely unable to read. The above post is in response to the PPP - you? - who thought it would be clever to $hit on MAGA in the college forum. I’ve helpfully bolded the pertinent words for you. Get a grip.

+1
PP is selectively outraged. So typical.

Still makes no sense to make fun of “urban” kids because someone came after your political clique…

Oh, ok. You think it's fine to claim rural white kids are ignorant (and yes, that was exactly the implication), but not at all fine to make the same claim about inner-city kids. Hypocrite, much?
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This site is a perfect example of why things are going down.

1. Instead of taking the time to research anything, go to the internet and ask strangers for advice.
2. Take anything posted as the gospel truth.
3. Spread misinformation or at least be heavily influenced by it.
4. Never stop to do critical analysis or use critical thinking skills.
5. Set this example and your kids will follow.

Result: a society of non-thinking, lazy people who somehow feel entitled to the best things in life.

Mind you, these are various "elite" college alumni.

FIFY.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Removing cell phones from class (or putting them away, etc.) was a good first step. Thank you, Gov. Youngkin.

+100
Took a Republican to enact common sense rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

Except 80%+ of people do NOT need calculus in their careers, even those with a college degree. It would be much more useful to require Stats classes and personal finance.

Not everyone is cut out to be an engineering major, nor should they be---we need a variety of people in this world.

If we taught education based on what 80% of people needed, we wouldn’t have any of our current system. I don’t touch any of the sciences in my career or my life. I don’t actively think about the water cycle every time it rains. I still had to learn biology, chemistry and physics through high school and through college.

DP. And no one is saying to get rid of those subjects. The point is that CALCULUS is not needed by the vast majority of people. It in no way should be a graduation requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.

“Calculus is useless” is exactly why our education system is so bad. So many parents happy to have ignorant kids.

I'm not dumb, but if I had to pass calculus to graduate high school I'd still be there at 40. This is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.

“Calculus is useless” is exactly why our education system is so bad. So many parents happy to have ignorant kids.

Once again, unless you are going into STEM field, calculus is NOT needed. So why force kids to take it when they could instead be taking more useful courses? Like Statistics for useful math, and personal finance for kids not on a college path (along with stats).

I'd prefer my kid who wants to be a journalism major be editor of the school newspaper, or take a period or two to intern while in HS, rather than being forced to take calculus

Yep. I'd prefer my kid who wants to be a liberal arts major to take a foreign language through the AP level or double up on AP history/English/science courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.

“Calculus is useless” is exactly why our education system is so bad. So many parents happy to have ignorant kids.

NP. I see that the "only STEM matters, only STEM careers are valid careers" folks are here. Sure, there is nothing else on Earth of value except your beloved STEM, and calculus is essential to every possible way of life.

And my Ph.D.s in both math and physics spouse agrees with me, not you, by the way. STEM is not the be-all and end-all of jobs or life.

I agree with your broader point, but your assertions are just speculative. They didn’t say stem was the only thing that mattered anywhere in their comment. It makes you sound anti-intellectual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.

“Calculus is useless” is exactly why our education system is so bad. So many parents happy to have ignorant kids.

Once again, unless you are going into STEM field, calculus is NOT needed. So why force kids to take it when they could instead be taking more useful courses? Like Statistics for useful math, and personal finance for kids not on a college path (along with stats).

I'd prefer my kid who wants to be a journalism major be editor of the school newspaper, or take a period or two to intern while in HS, rather than being forced to take calculus

Yep. I'd prefer my kid who wants to be a liberal arts major to take a foreign language through the AP level or double up on AP history/English/science courses.

And a calculus class will stop that how? You have 32 course options throughout high school. This seems like a non issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

Because not everyone is ready for Algebra I in 8th grade.

I watched this unfold with my oldest in HoCo (at a MS in the Top 25%). Someone decided in 6th grade that everyone needed to be at least 1 grade level ahead in math. So they eliminated the 6th grade math courses and put all those kids in 7th grade math. Well, for my kid, it worked out. They have a talent for math, but have learning issues (anxiety, reading issues and ADHD) so had never tested into advanced math. After a D on first test (highest score in class), they went on to get an A that year and excel. However, the first 6 weeks of math were HELL for many many students, who simply were not ready for skipping a year of math at the 6/7th grade level---there is a reason they were ON GRADE LEVEL. It was a nightmare for on friends kid. Parents and kid went thru hell trying to do the homework, study and the stress was not needed. After 6 weeks, that parent along with others finally convinced the school to put some kids back into 6th grade math. That friend's kid got a B+ in math that year. And you know what, that kid went on to be a journalism major, and started working in sports journalism immediately upon graduation from a 4 year college and has continued to find great jobs to advance their career. They are happy, just not a STEM oriented kid. But that first 6-8 weeks of MS was an unnecessary hell and made the transition difficult (and killed the kids already fragile self esteem about math---they already felt they were not good at math---it's HoCo, everyone is advanced it seems. )

+1
Our son was identified as eligible for "advanced math" in 6th grade (FCPS). We asked the teacher if it was necessary and if we could just keep him at grade level to make sure he got a good basic grounding, and he was astounded. He said absolutely, and that we were the only parents who had ever talked to him about it and opted to do this. So DS stayed on a "normal" math path and took Algebra 1 in 9th grade. He wasn't a fan of math, but did ok through AP Stats, and was a humanities major in college. Absolutely no need for calculus, which would have been painful and totally unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watched the stand up special from Ronny Chieng last night and he had a really funny bit about how his MAGA friends are willing to die for America but there not willing to do math homework for America, and what America really needs is more people who are willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy.
I’m not doing it justice but it was both funny and very smart.

There's no need to bring politics into this, but since you did... tell us all about the abysmal schools and test scores of urban inner-city kids. Are they "willing to do their math homework" and "willing to learn the skills for a post-manufacturing economy"? We'll wait.

Of course you bring urban kids in first. The dog whistle is really getting slobber all over it from the people on this forum. Could’ve talked about anyone else.

Found someone else who is completely unable to read. The above post is in response to the PPP - you? - who thought it would be clever to $hit on MAGA in the college forum. I’ve helpfully bolded the pertinent words for you. Get a grip.

+1
PP is selectively outraged. So typical.

Still makes no sense to make fun of “urban” kids because someone came after your political clique…

Oh, ok. You think it's fine to claim rural white kids are ignorant (and yes, that was exactly the implication), but not at all fine to make the same claim about inner-city kids. Hypocrite, much?
DP

No one said anything about rural white kids, so I really have no idea what you are talking about. This might be a crazy concept for you, but I don’t believe in shaming kids of any background, because they are kids. Why do “MAGA friends”=rural white kids in your mind? Let’s take away the political affiliation, you thought someone posting on DCUM was talking about their friends as children? I get arguing to argue is fun, but this is nonsensical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

Because not everyone is ready for Algebra I in 8th grade.

I watched this unfold with my oldest in HoCo (at a MS in the Top 25%). Someone decided in 6th grade that everyone needed to be at least 1 grade level ahead in math. So they eliminated the 6th grade math courses and put all those kids in 7th grade math. Well, for my kid, it worked out. They have a talent for math, but have learning issues (anxiety, reading issues and ADHD) so had never tested into advanced math. After a D on first test (highest score in class), they went on to get an A that year and excel. However, the first 6 weeks of math were HELL for many many students, who simply were not ready for skipping a year of math at the 6/7th grade level---there is a reason they were ON GRADE LEVEL. It was a nightmare for on friends kid. Parents and kid went thru hell trying to do the homework, study and the stress was not needed. After 6 weeks, that parent along with others finally convinced the school to put some kids back into 6th grade math. That friend's kid got a B+ in math that year. And you know what, that kid went on to be a journalism major, and started working in sports journalism immediately upon graduation from a 4 year college and has continued to find great jobs to advance their career. They are happy, just not a STEM oriented kid. But that first 6-8 weeks of MS was an unnecessary hell and made the transition difficult (and killed the kids already fragile self esteem about math---they already felt they were not good at math---it's HoCo, everyone is advanced it seems. )

+1
Our son was identified as eligible for "advanced math" in 6th grade (FCPS). We asked the teacher if it was necessary and if we could just keep him at grade level to make sure he got a good basic grounding, and he was astounded. He said absolutely, and that we were the only parents who had ever talked to him about it and opted to do this. So DS stayed on a "normal" math path and took Algebra 1 in 9th grade. He wasn't a fan of math, but did ok through AP Stats, and was a humanities major in college. Absolutely no need for calculus, which would have been painful and totally unnecessary.

Taking a calculus class wouldn’t have been “painful” for your child. So much privilege in this discussion.