Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

I’m not proving anything. I just joined the thread and haven’t read most of the responses. I was just commenting that you spend more time with your child when you are a sahm. The pp sounds like a moron trying to prove otherwise. It doesn’t make her a better or worse mom but it was just a bad point.

When I was a work from home PT parent, I felt it was the worst of both worlds. I often had to log in at night when kids went to bed. I had a FT nanny and sent older kid to preschool.

[Anonymous]

Point being that when you work from home and have young kids, you are less efficient at work so something that may take 2 hours can get stretched to 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

DH probably spends one hour per day and has zero guilt. He earns a seven figure income. I’m the pp who has 3 kids. Older 2 have sports 6x per week. DH usually picks up a kid or drives them to sports during evenings. He goes to all their games on the weekends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had incredible working parents who had to work long hours and had long commutes. Of course they shaped me and my opinions and made decisions for me. We are extremely close and I’m grateful to them every day.

But the endless hours being herded in daycare, aftercare and city-run summer camps sure shaped my nervous system, my self of self-worth and my general comfort throughout childhood. Everything was controlled, confining and just so many people in my life, handling me, exposing me to all their own stresses even if they were good people. I might feel differently if I’d had a nanny.

My DH was raised by a rural sahm. He had incredible autonomy and consistency and became master of his own small universe. A kid in daycare is master of nothing.

Today we are similarly successful but he is much more resilient and self-assured. I work very part-time to try and give our kids some of what he had. Debating the semantics of who raises who distracts from the realities of American childcare

My mom was a SAHM, I can't remember every really interacting with her. She never read me a book, hugged me, told me I was good at something, to a park or anything really.

It was wake up, get cereal, go outside and don't bother me until dinner.

After dinner it was TV upstairs without her and to bed.

My dad coached my team, watched shows with me (MASH/All in the Family/etc), went to all my sports games.

It would have been nice to have some structure, some interaction, some education during those years, anything. I would have much preferred to be in a day care.

Oddly once I grew up my mom had an in home daycare and she read to them, took them to the pool, took them to the library, took them to the park... maybe she took a class or something to become a day care provider. IDK. It was much better than my upbringing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

DH probably spends one hour per day and has zero guilt. He earns a seven figure income. I’m the pp who has 3 kids. Older 2 have sports 6x per week. DH usually picks up a kid or drives them to sports during evenings. He goes to all their games on the weekends.

That's a really sad life for your children I am so sorry for them. I'm super sorry he doesn't prioritize you or care to raise his children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an insensitive thing to say because as women we are all supposed to be empathetic to the fact that no matter what women do regarding work and motherhood someone is going to judge us and we're going to feel guilty.

But also I think people say this sometimes because they are just being honest and it's how they feel. Just like I think women who go back to work actually sometimes do it because they are bored out of their minds at home with babies and want to "use their brains." I also know women who have said that they went back to work because they believe their kids are better off being raised by nannies or caregivers who are "experts" as opposed to a sahm.

All of these things will be hurtful to hear to someone who made a different choice and they are also things people actually think and feel. Women are presented with this impossible choice (if they are fortunate to even have a choice at all which most are not) and there is no answer that will ever be right for everyone so we all do this dance with each other about our choices and we offend each other constantly because there's no way for us to all validate each other and ourselves at the same time unless we all make the same choice.

But we cannot all make the same choice because we are different people with different kids and different professions and different finances and different partners and different resources.

I just try to remember all that whenever I talk to other women about this stuff and when they say things that can be viewed as an insult to my choices. They aren't really talking about me. It's just about them. And that's fine.

But why do we need to be validating our own choices to other people? DH and I made the decisions right for our family (career choices, number of kids, where to live, what schools to send them to, etc.) based on our own personal life circumstances and priorities. I am under no illusion that our choices are the “best ever” or even “better” than what other families have chosen. But I am secure we’ve made decisions that make our family happy.

I can have a conversation with another parent who made different choices than me without needing to justify/explain things in a way that belittle their choices. For instance I have a friend who is a SAHM with a big law DH. When talking to her I 100% understand why it would be logistically a nightmare for her to try to be the primary parent for 3 kids and work since he is gone long hours. Whereas I work FT but my DH also has a super flexible remote job and can help with a lot of the morning routine, shuttling kids around, etc. We can both discuss our lives and the situational decisions we’ve made without making generalized conclusions that our choice is better than the other.

I feel sorry for those who lack the ability to understand their life choices are not necessarily the best choices for others and that we do not need validate ourselves at the expense of putting down others.

This is how most well adjusted people function. The rest don't see how classless they come off putting others down and getting snippy about the decisions of others. I do think there are also genuinely unaware people who are hyper focused on their own reasons (use my brain, raise my kids) that they say it out loud without meaning to imply insult or even that someone else isn't doing that. Honestly, most of us aren't so blatant but likely don't realize all the ways we've insulted others day to day. Still, some people do mean offense and it usually doesn't sting unless you are hearing a chorus of it. Funny enough, I've been hearing one resounding sentiment but from experience on this site, other women get the flip side advised to them by their family so I can understand their defensiveness.

You're almost there. When people talk about their own decisions, they are not putting others down. Others are interpreting other people's statements as if they are reflections upon themselves when other people are just talking about themselves. It is people's insecurity and self-absorption that causes people to be offended by other people's statements about their own situations. People are not classless when they talk about their own situation. People are insecure when they are offended when other people talk about their situation.

It isn't about you.

People’s choices are about them but sometimes the language encompasses other people’s behavior. Do you really not see the difference between “I wanted to spend time with my kids when they are little” and “ I didn’t want someone else raising my kids”?

By your logic doesn’t the bolded imply that the working parent doesn’t want to spend time with their kids when they’re little?

There is literally no way to have a conversation without offending people these days. I’d say most of you should stick to discussing the weather, but I’m sure it would take less than two minutes before someone makes it political and then everyone is taking it personally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a
full time working parent.

Does your math include weekends, holidays, and vacations? Why do naps at daycare count as daycare time but night sleeps don’t count for parents?

At least be consistent.

Yeah, when my kids were little I did the math — with 10 federal holidays, 10 sick days, 4 weeks vacation plus weekends that’s already 144 days out of the year plus I spent about 4 waking hours with them on the standard work week 25% of waking hours for day), so that works out to over half their time was spent with me plus of course I was making all the decisions about what they ate, where they lived, what books and toys they had, who their caregivers were, what medical care their received, what outside activities they engaged in, what clothes they wore, etc., etc. my oldest is in college now and I really don’t think she feels like she was raised by anyone but me and her father.

I did the math too

I woke at 6am for a feeding and was with them until 7am I was at work at 7:30, home by 4.
My H was with them from 7-9, work at 9:30, home 6pm
nanny arrive at 9
nap was 9-11
nanny 11-1
nap 1-3
nanny 3-4
home at 4
bedtime 9

nanny time 3 hours
My children are in college right now and they can't even remember their nannies which makes their nannies sad when they visit.

Your children napped for 4 hours per day for years on end? Come on, you know that's not true and they spent way more than 3 waking hours per day with the nanny.

Oh suddenly folks like you care about making sure the math is accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

DH probably spends one hour per day and has zero guilt. He earns a seven figure income. I’m the pp who has 3 kids. Older 2 have sports 6x per week. DH usually picks up a kid or drives them to sports during evenings. He goes to all their games on the weekends.

That's a really sad life for your children I am so sorry for them. I'm super sorry he doesn't prioritize you or care to raise his children.

You don’t need to feel sorry for them. We get to live an amazing life. Yes, DH doesn’t spend tons of time with them Mon-Thurs but I do. He checks in on everyone and eats with us most nights.

DH gets home at 6-7 and picks up a kid on the way home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an insensitive thing to say because as women we are all supposed to be empathetic to the fact that no matter what women do regarding work and motherhood someone is going to judge us and we're going to feel guilty.

But also I think people say this sometimes because they are just being honest and it's how they feel. Just like I think women who go back to work actually sometimes do it because they are bored out of their minds at home with babies and want to "use their brains." I also know women who have said that they went back to work because they believe their kids are better off being raised by nannies or caregivers who are "experts" as opposed to a sahm.

All of these things will be hurtful to hear to someone who made a different choice and they are also things people actually think and feel. Women are presented with this impossible choice (if they are fortunate to even have a choice at all which most are not) and there is no answer that will ever be right for everyone so we all do this dance with each other about our choices and we offend each other constantly because there's no way for us to all validate each other and ourselves at the same time unless we all make the same choice.

But we cannot all make the same choice because we are different people with different kids and different professions and different finances and different partners and different resources.

I just try to remember all that whenever I talk to other women about this stuff and when they say things that can be viewed as an insult to my choices. They aren't really talking about me. It's just about them. And that's fine.

But why do we need to be validating our own choices to other people? DH and I made the decisions right for our family (career choices, number of kids, where to live, what schools to send them to, etc.) based on our own personal life circumstances and priorities. I am under no illusion that our choices are the “best ever” or even “better” than what other families have chosen. But I am secure we’ve made decisions that make our family happy.

I can have a conversation with another parent who made different choices than me without needing to justify/explain things in a way that belittle their choices. For instance I have a friend who is a SAHM with a big law DH. When talking to her I 100% understand why it would be logistically a nightmare for her to try to be the primary parent for 3 kids and work since he is gone long hours. Whereas I work FT but my DH also has a super flexible remote job and can help with a lot of the morning routine, shuttling kids around, etc. We can both discuss our lives and the situational decisions we’ve made without making generalized conclusions that our choice is better than the other.

I feel sorry for those who lack the ability to understand their life choices are not necessarily the best choices for others and that we do not need validate ourselves at the expense of putting down others.

This is how most well adjusted people function. The rest don't see how classless they come off putting others down and getting snippy about the decisions of others. I do think there are also genuinely unaware people who are hyper focused on their own reasons (use my brain, raise my kids) that they say it out loud without meaning to imply insult or even that someone else isn't doing that. Honestly, most of us aren't so blatant but likely don't realize all the ways we've insulted others day to day. Still, some people do mean offense and it usually doesn't sting unless you are hearing a chorus of it. Funny enough, I've been hearing one resounding sentiment but from experience on this site, other women get the flip side advised to them by their family so I can understand their defensiveness.

You're almost there. When people talk about their own decisions, they are not putting others down. Others are interpreting other people's statements as if they are reflections upon themselves when other people are just talking about themselves. It is people's insecurity and self-absorption that causes people to be offended by other people's statements about their own situations. People are not classless when they talk about their own situation. People are insecure when they are offended when other people talk about their situation.

It isn't about you.

People’s choices are about them but sometimes the language encompasses other people’s behavior. Do you really not see the difference between “I wanted to spend time with my kids when they are little” and “ I didn’t want someone else raising my kids”?

By your logic doesn’t the bolded imply that the working parent doesn’t want to spend time with their kids when they’re little?

There is literally no way to have a conversation without offending people these days. I’d say most of you should stick to discussing the weather, but I’m sure it would take less than two minutes before someone makes it political and then everyone is taking it personally.

Your logic is wrong. I have made no statements about what other people do or don't want to do. Maybe that's the issue -- some people really cannot see the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an insensitive thing to say because as women we are all supposed to be empathetic to the fact that no matter what women do regarding work and motherhood someone is going to judge us and we're going to feel guilty.

But also I think people say this sometimes because they are just being honest and it's how they feel. Just like I think women who go back to work actually sometimes do it because they are bored out of their minds at home with babies and want to "use their brains." I also know women who have said that they went back to work because they believe their kids are better off being raised by nannies or caregivers who are "experts" as opposed to a sahm.

All of these things will be hurtful to hear to someone who made a different choice and they are also things people actually think and feel. Women are presented with this impossible choice (if they are fortunate to even have a choice at all which most are not) and there is no answer that will ever be right for everyone so we all do this dance with each other about our choices and we offend each other constantly because there's no way for us to all validate each other and ourselves at the same time unless we all make the same choice.

But we cannot all make the same choice because we are different people with different kids and different professions and different finances and different partners and different resources.

I just try to remember all that whenever I talk to other women about this stuff and when they say things that can be viewed as an insult to my choices. They aren't really talking about me. It's just about them. And that's fine.

But why do we need to be validating our own choices to other people? DH and I made the decisions right for our family (career choices, number of kids, where to live, what schools to send them to, etc.) based on our own personal life circumstances and priorities. I am under no illusion that our choices are the “best ever” or even “better” than what other families have chosen. But I am secure we’ve made decisions that make our family happy.

I can have a conversation with another parent who made different choices than me without needing to justify/explain things in a way that belittle their choices. For instance I have a friend who is a SAHM with a big law DH. When talking to her I 100% understand why it would be logistically a nightmare for her to try to be the primary parent for 3 kids and work since he is gone long hours. Whereas I work FT but my DH also has a super flexible remote job and can help with a lot of the morning routine, shuttling kids around, etc. We can both discuss our lives and the situational decisions we’ve made without making generalized conclusions that our choice is better than the other.

I feel sorry for those who lack the ability to understand their life choices are not necessarily the best choices for others and that we do not need validate ourselves at the expense of putting down others.

This is how most well adjusted people function. The rest don't see how classless they come off putting others down and getting snippy about the decisions of others. I do think there are also genuinely unaware people who are hyper focused on their own reasons (use my brain, raise my kids) that they say it out loud without meaning to imply insult or even that someone else isn't doing that. Honestly, most of us aren't so blatant but likely don't realize all the ways we've insulted others day to day. Still, some people do mean offense and it usually doesn't sting unless you are hearing a chorus of it. Funny enough, I've been hearing one resounding sentiment but from experience on this site, other women get the flip side advised to them by their family so I can understand their defensiveness.

You're almost there. When people talk about their own decisions, they are not putting others down. Others are interpreting other people's statements as if they are reflections upon themselves when other people are just talking about themselves. It is people's insecurity and self-absorption that causes people to be offended by other people's statements about their own situations. People are not classless when they talk about their own situation. People are insecure when they are offended when other people talk about their situation.

It isn't about you.

Huh? That is absolutely not true.

My kids go to private school. I can either state that as a fact, or I can say that we sent them to private school because we wouldn't have sent them to the public schools for which we are zoned. Do you really think both statements are the same? In one I am simply stating what we chose. In another I am not only stating what we chose but also denigrating those who made a different choice.

Saying you don't work because you don't want someone else to raise your kids is clearly saying that you think people who use nannies or daycares don't raise their children.

So the problem isn’t thinking it, it’s just saying it, right? Because the truth is you sent your kids to private for a reason, it’s not like you and your husband did rock paper scissors to decide.

So you won’t SAY that the public schools aren’t good enough for your kids and you feel they’d get a subpar education there (because of course it’s rude to say to the public school parents) but that doesn’t change the fact that you believe it to be true.

Long story short, either one is mature enough and secure enough to discuss things like private school and childcare honestly, or not. There is far too much thought policing and putting words in others’ mouths going on in this thread, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

I’m not proving anything. I just joined the thread and haven’t read most of the responses. I was just commenting that you spend more time with your child when you are a sahm. The pp sounds like a moron trying to prove otherwise. It doesn’t make her a better or worse mom but it was just a bad point.

When I was a work from home PT parent, I felt it was the worst of both worlds. I often had to log in at night when kids went to bed. I had a FT nanny and sent older kid to preschool.

It's not a bad point when it is true and I said above in the thread, my neighbor's H was dying and she made me the emergency person for her kids when she was caring for him so much and could give nothing to her kids.

Another neighbor (SAHM) said that's silly you should choose me, I'm home and I was like I spend more time with my kids than you do... we did the math, I was right. I was more engaged and spent more time with my kids, hence her kids.

Now her rooms were always freshly painted and she always had the perfect pillows for the perfect season and she worked out and had a nice yard and her closets were to die for... but I spent more time engaging with kids.

Kids nap, kids go to school, kids go to preschool... you can easily be home with them a ton if you prioritize it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It's an insensitive thing to say because as women we are all supposed to be empathetic to the fact that no matter what women do regarding work and motherhood someone is going to judge us and we're going to feel guilty.

But also I think people say this sometimes because they are just being honest and it's how they feel. Just like I think women who go back to work actually sometimes do it because they are bored out of their minds at home with babies and want to "use their brains." I also know women who have said that they went back to work because they believe their kids are better off being raised by nannies or caregivers who are "experts" as opposed to a sahm.

All of these things will be hurtful to hear to someone who made a different choice and they are also things people actually think and feel. Women are presented with this impossible choice (if they are fortunate to even have a choice at all which most are not) and there is no answer that will ever be right for everyone so we all do this dance with each other about our choices and we offend each other constantly because there's no way for us to all validate each other and ourselves at the same time unless we all make the same choice.

But we cannot all make the same choice because we are different people with different kids and different professions and different finances and different partners and different resources.

I just try to remember all that whenever I talk to other women about this stuff and when they say things that can be viewed as an insult to my choices. They aren't really talking about me. It's just about them. And that's fine.

But why do we need to be validating our own choices to other people? DH and I made the decisions right for our family (career choices, number of kids, where to live, what schools to send them to, etc.) based on our own personal life circumstances and priorities. I am under no illusion that our choices are the “best ever” or even “better” than what other families have chosen. But I am secure we’ve made decisions that make our family happy.

I can have a conversation with another parent who made different choices than me without needing to justify/explain things in a way that belittle their choices. For instance I have a friend who is a SAHM with a big law DH. When talking to her I 100% understand why it would be logistically a nightmare for her to try to be the primary parent for 3 kids and work since he is gone long hours. Whereas I work FT but my DH also has a super flexible remote job and can help with a lot of the morning routine, shuttling kids around, etc. We can both discuss our lives and the situational decisions we’ve made without making generalized conclusions that our choice is better than the other.

I feel sorry for those who lack the ability to understand their life choices are not necessarily the best choices for others and that we do not need validate ourselves at the expense of putting down others.

This is how most well adjusted people function. The rest don't see how classless they come off putting others down and getting snippy about the decisions of others. I do think there are also genuinely unaware people who are hyper focused on their own reasons (use my brain, raise my kids) that they say it out loud without meaning to imply insult or even that someone else isn't doing that. Honestly, most of us aren't so blatant but likely don't realize all the ways we've insulted others day to day. Still, some people do mean offense and it usually doesn't sting unless you are hearing a chorus of it. Funny enough, I've been hearing one resounding sentiment but from experience on this site, other women get the flip side advised to them by their family so I can understand their defensiveness.

You're almost there. When people talk about their own decisions, they are not putting others down. Others are interpreting other people's statements as if they are reflections upon themselves when other people are just talking about themselves. It is people's insecurity and self-absorption that causes people to be offended by other people's statements about their own situations. People are not classless when they talk about their own situation. People are insecure when they are offended when other people talk about their situation.

It isn't about you.

People’s choices are about them but sometimes the language encompasses other people’s behavior. Do you really not see the difference between “I wanted to spend time with my kids when they are little” and “ I didn’t want someone else raising my kids”?

By your logic doesn’t the bolded imply that the working parent doesn’t want to spend time with their kids when they’re little?

There is literally no way to have a conversation without offending people these days. I’d say most of you should stick to discussing the weather, but I’m sure it would take less than two minutes before someone makes it political and then everyone is taking it personally.

Your logic is wrong. I have made no statements about what other people do or don't want to do. Maybe that's the issue -- some people really cannot see the difference.

There is no difference. You’re just incorrect and too defensive/sensitive to admit it. Which tracks with you being offended about someone saying they want to raise their own kids (or don’t want someone else to raise their kids) in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Children who spent a lot of time in daycare as babies and toddlers have more behavior problems in school than children who were cared for by a family member or a nanny. It's important for babies to form attachments to their caregivers, which doesn't happen in daycares because of all the other kids around and the staff turnover. I feel bad for people who can't afford to stay home or hire a nanny or have grandma babysit all day, but I keep it to myself.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

I’m not proving anything. I just joined the thread and haven’t read most of the responses. I was just commenting that you spend more time with your child when you are a sahm. The pp sounds like a moron trying to prove otherwise. It doesn’t make her a better or worse mom but it was just a bad point.

When I was a work from home PT parent, I felt it was the worst of both worlds. I often had to log in at night when kids went to bed. I had a FT nanny and sent older kid to preschool.

It's not a bad point when it is true and I said above in the thread, my neighbor's H was dying and she made me the emergency person for her kids when she was caring for him so much and could give nothing to her kids.

Another neighbor (SAHM) said that's silly you should choose me, I'm home and I was like I spend more time with my kids than you do... we did the math, I was right. I was more engaged and spent more time with my kids, hence her kids.

Now her rooms were always freshly painted and she always had the perfect pillows for the perfect season and she worked out and had a nice yard and her closets were to die for... but I spent more time engaging with kids.

Kids nap, kids go to school, kids go to preschool... you can easily be home with them a ton if you prioritize it.

I’m not interested enough to go back and read your post about your SAHM neighbor’s dying husband and how you spent more time with your kid. Wow, really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an insensitive thing to say because as women we are all supposed to be empathetic to the fact that no matter what women do regarding work and motherhood someone is going to judge us and we're going to feel guilty.

But also I think people say this sometimes because they are just being honest and it's how they feel. Just like I think women who go back to work actually sometimes do it because they are bored out of their minds at home with babies and want to "use their brains." I also know women who have said that they went back to work because they believe their kids are better off being raised by nannies or caregivers who are "experts" as opposed to a sahm.

All of these things will be hurtful to hear to someone who made a different choice and they are also things people actually think and feel. Women are presented with this impossible choice (if they are fortunate to even have a choice at all which most are not) and there is no answer that will ever be right for everyone so we all do this dance with each other about our choices and we offend each other constantly because there's no way for us to all validate each other and ourselves at the same time unless we all make the same choice.

But we cannot all make the same choice because we are different people with different kids and different professions and different finances and different partners and different resources.

I just try to remember all that whenever I talk to other women about this stuff and when they say things that can be viewed as an insult to my choices. They aren't really talking about me. It's just about them. And that's fine.

But why do we need to be validating our own choices to other people? DH and I made the decisions right for our family (career choices, number of kids, where to live, what schools to send them to, etc.) based on our own personal life circumstances and priorities. I am under no illusion that our choices are the “best ever” or even “better” than what other families have chosen. But I am secure we’ve made decisions that make our family happy.

I can have a conversation with another parent who made different choices than me without needing to justify/explain things in a way that belittle their choices. For instance I have a friend who is a SAHM with a big law DH. When talking to her I 100% understand why it would be logistically a nightmare for her to try to be the primary parent for 3 kids and work since he is gone long hours. Whereas I work FT but my DH also has a super flexible remote job and can help with a lot of the morning routine, shuttling kids around, etc. We can both discuss our lives and the situational decisions we’ve made without making generalized conclusions that our choice is better than the other.

I feel sorry for those who lack the ability to understand their life choices are not necessarily the best choices for others and that we do not need validate ourselves at the expense of putting down others.

This is how most well adjusted people function. The rest don't see how classless they come off putting others down and getting snippy about the decisions of others. I do think there are also genuinely unaware people who are hyper focused on their own reasons (use my brain, raise my kids) that they say it out loud without meaning to imply insult or even that someone else isn't doing that. Honestly, most of us aren't so blatant but likely don't realize all the ways we've insulted others day to day. Still, some people do mean offense and it usually doesn't sting unless you are hearing a chorus of it. Funny enough, I've been hearing one resounding sentiment but from experience on this site, other women get the flip side advised to them by their family so I can understand their defensiveness.

You're almost there. When people talk about their own decisions, they are not putting others down. Others are interpreting other people's statements as if they are reflections upon themselves when other people are just talking about themselves. It is people's insecurity and self-absorption that causes people to be offended by other people's statements about their own situations. People are not classless when they talk about their own situation. People are insecure when they are offended when other people talk about their situation.

It isn't about you.

Huh? That is absolutely not true.

My kids go to private school. I can either state that as a fact, or I can say that we sent them to private school because we wouldn't have sent them to the public schools for which we are zoned. Do you really think both statements are the same? In one I am simply stating what we chose. In another I am not only stating what we chose but also denigrating those who made a different choice.

Saying you don't work because you don't want someone else to raise your kids is clearly saying that you think people who use nannies or daycares don't raise their children.

So the problem isn’t thinking it, it’s just saying it, right? Because the truth is you sent your kids to private for a reason, it’s not like you and your husband did rock paper scissors to decide.

So you won’t SAY that the public schools aren’t good enough for your kids and you feel they’d get a subpar education there (because of course it’s rude to say to the public school parents) but that doesn’t change the fact that you believe it to be true.

Long story short, either one is mature enough and secure enough to discuss things like private school and childcare honestly, or not. There is far too much thought policing and putting words in others’ mouths going on in this thread, though.

I sent my kids to private because it's what my family does and truthfully i never even thought about the public school.

My SIL on the other hand spent so much time researching neighborhoods for the perfect public school.

So really I could say, well you send your kids to that specific public school because you think you are too good for the school 3 miles east of you.