Can someone explain the mentality of never being proactive or organized to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

What PP really means to say is “you’re all just a bunch of nagging martyrs. If you’d just stop caring everything would be fine.”

Well, what OP is doing isn’t working. Maybe if she calmed down a bit, or tried a new tactic, he might respond more. Maybe he won’t, but you never know until you try. I know that’s more labor, but it’s really two people in a relationship. It’s never just one person’s fault. I did that with my parents, and it worked. Along with accepting who they are.

I mean - THAT sounds like martyrdom. Who wants to accept this kind of behavior?

LOL ok. Martyrdom is being incensed at your partner every single day, doing it all, running to DCUM to complain, and never getting divorced. Or, divorcing and ruminating about how horrible your ex is for all of eternity because he brought cash for a birthday present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

What PP really means to say is “you’re all just a bunch of nagging martyrs. If you’d just stop caring everything would be fine.”

Well, what OP is doing isn’t working. Maybe if she calmed down a bit, or tried a new tactic, he might respond more. Maybe he won’t, but you never know until you try. I know that’s more labor, but it’s really two people in a relationship. It’s never just one person’s fault. I did that with my parents, and it worked. Along with accepting who they are.

I mean - THAT sounds like martyrdom. Who wants to accept this kind of behavior?

LOL ok. Martyrdom is being incensed at your partner every single day, doing it all, running to DCUM to complain, and never getting divorced. Or, divorcing and ruminating about how horrible your ex is for all of eternity because he brought cash for a birthday present.

Accepting it and doing all the work “because he is who be is” is literally martyrdom. Being angry is not. Divorcing is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

What PP really means to say is “you’re all just a bunch of nagging martyrs. If you’d just stop caring everything would be fine.”

Well, what OP is doing isn’t working. Maybe if she calmed down a bit, or tried a new tactic, he might respond more. Maybe he won’t, but you never know until you try. I know that’s more labor, but it’s really two people in a relationship. It’s never just one person’s fault. I did that with my parents, and it worked. Along with accepting who they are.

I mean - THAT sounds like martyrdom. Who wants to accept this kind of behavior?

LOL ok. Martyrdom is being incensed at your partner every single day, doing it all, running to DCUM to complain, and never getting divorced. Or, divorcing and ruminating about how horrible your ex is for all of eternity because he brought cash for a birthday present.

Accepting it and doing all the work “because he is who be is” is literally martyrdom. Being angry is not. Divorcing is not.

Being so angry and not changing anything is certainly unproductive!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

spot on. did you end up getting married? how is it?

We didn’t. And I really loved him. I told him that I accepted who he was: someone who was often grumpy, never going to be the life of the party, wasn’t going to kill it professionally. But was also calm, a good planner, loved me, and was steady. I said we both have good and bad qualities. But. I won’t stay in a rental apt forever. I won’t live together unmarried in perpetuity. We had both been married before and there was no baby timeline. But I was upfront that I wanted to he married again and that if he didn’t; it was ok, but I wanted that and needed to move on if he disagreed. He insisted that he did. And then did everything in his power to sabotage that eventual plan, including cheating after proposing. I remember saying, “you just could have broken up with me. Just never proposed, or just called off the engagement. It happens, and people move on”. He couldn’t do it. I had to find all the horrible evidence and call it off myself. The kicker: he still reaches and and still claims to want to marry me. He’s still single, still rents, and has moved three times since then.

It’s deeply, deeply disordered behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

I’m sorry for you that you need to do these kinds of backflips to justify how not to bend for others, at all. Your maturity was truly stunted somewhere. Truly happy people are able to give to those who are important to them. This isn’t the expectation of perfection. It’s just effort. We all know what effort looks like. Also the fact that you talk about wives and mothers as a monolith whose secret to happiness evades them became they won’t simply follow your lead of non-effort is telling. They’re human beings. Their feelings matter. Again, you have really missed out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

I’m sorry for you that you need to do these kinds of backflips to justify how not to bend for others, at all. Your maturity was truly stunted somewhere. Truly happy people are able to give to those who are important to them. This isn’t the expectation of perfection. It’s just effort. We all know what effort looks like. Also the fact that you talk about wives and mothers as a monolith whose secret to happiness evades them became they won’t simply follow your lead of non-effort is telling. They’re human beings. Their feelings matter. Again, you have really missed out.

What? What non-effort?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

I’m sorry for you that you need to do these kinds of backflips to justify how not to bend for others, at all. Your maturity was truly stunted somewhere. Truly happy people are able to give to those who are important to them. This isn’t the expectation of perfection. It’s just effort. We all know what effort looks like. Also the fact that you talk about wives and mothers as a monolith whose secret to happiness evades them became they won’t simply follow your lead of non-effort is telling. They’re human beings. Their feelings matter. Again, you have really missed out.

What a crazy word salad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

I’m sorry for you that you need to do these kinds of backflips to justify how not to bend for others, at all. Your maturity was truly stunted somewhere. Truly happy people are able to give to those who are important to them. This isn’t the expectation of perfection. It’s just effort. We all know what effort looks like. Also the fact that you talk about wives and mothers as a monolith whose secret to happiness evades them became they won’t simply follow your lead of non-effort is telling. They’re human beings. Their feelings matter. Again, you have really missed out.

What? What non-effort?

Do you think I'm a man? I'm a mom and wife speaking from experience of changing how I frame things and ending up happier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Some of us have ADHD and still manage to not embarrass or disappoint our kids with our inability to be a responsible adult.

Aren’t there degrees of ADHD though? Some people have a milder case than others?

And some people create systems and scaffolds in their lives to accommodate their weaknesses - or choose to simplify some things to allow more mental bandwidth for other things - like my kids and stuff that is important to them.
1. Receive party invite
2. RSVP yes and immediately put it on my Google calendar - inviting my work calendar and my husband.
3. Check for message “no gifts”. If no gifts - screenshot the invite and add that to the calendar entry - because I will doubt myself and recheck the invite 12 times otherwise. If it doesn’t say “no gifts” create a calendar event for the Saturday prior to the party that says “buy gift for X kid” and invite my husband.
4. Wednesday and Sunday - look at calendars with husband. Update each calendar entry for kids with a code to tell us who is driving / going / staying at the event.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

It's really not black and white thinking. It's just reality that you can't make anyone else do anything. You can't find out what works for both people if he isn't going to budge or compromise. You can't go back and not marry him or make him someone else.

What else can you do that you can actually control the outcome of other than accept those things as true (then either leave or stay and deal) or choose not to accept them, i.e., keep getting upset at predictable behavior?

Carolyn Hax talks about this all the time. You can't make someone exercise, eat better, listen to you, change their behavior, care about you feelings.

Do you think you’re saying something smart?

Smart? Don't know.

Revolutionary, yes. I honestly think most wives and mothers would be way happier accepting what I'm saying.

DP but I completely agree with you. You are basically advocating for a Stoic mindset, which of course gets lambasted on this board full of (willfully) unhappy people, but is actually one of the keys to a happy existence.

I have been teaching Stoic philosophy to my children and it has dramatically improved their anxiety and overall behavior.

And for the record I think what you are saying is very smart.