Can someone explain the mentality of never being proactive or organized to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

NP.

Make them plan a week long vacation.
It’s eye opening.

I just didn’t know what to call it and thank gawd I packed a guidebook and knew the top 5+ things to do as I had been in the vicinity before 15 years earlier.

The problem is I am very high functioning and we met in grad school, then was his hyper focus. Fast FW and I had capacity to plan the wedding, travel, bethesda home purchase, kid 1c nanny, keep working and then WHAM!!! Needed him to take the baton sometimes and he had NO CLUE. He’d go into shutdown mode, lash out, forget decisions we discussed, hide at work more and more. It was so nuts he went to take a neuropsych test as a 38 yo. He was asd/adhd, he still won’t do anything of the things his therapist suggested or anything we (I) read.

Am counting down the days until I think the youngest child can advocate for herself well. kid 1 has the same asd/adhd, dinner neuropsych test in 4th grade.

Not the life I envisioned but I kept my career, entity and clarity in his bad behavior patterns. The incompetency is so constant thought it’s unbelievable.

strangely, the ONLY thing my ex can do competently is plan a vacation. (but woe betide anyone who disagrees with his plan.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

so divorce?

Divorce, choose to accept his flaws, choose not to care about 90% of what's stressing her out, stop being a martyr, etc. She has lots of choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

NP.

Make them plan a week long vacation.
It’s eye opening.

I just didn’t know what to call it and thank gawd I packed a guidebook and knew the top 5+ things to do as I had been in the vicinity before 15 years earlier.

The problem is I am very high functioning and we met in grad school, then was his hyper focus. Fast FW and I had capacity to plan the wedding, travel, bethesda home purchase, kid 1c nanny, keep working and then WHAM!!! Needed him to take the baton sometimes and he had NO CLUE. He’d go into shutdown mode, lash out, forget decisions we discussed, hide at work more and more. It was so nuts he went to take a neuropsych test as a 38 yo. He was asd/adhd, he still won’t do anything of the things his therapist suggested or anything we (I) read.

Am counting down the days until I think the youngest child can advocate for herself well. kid 1 has the same asd/adhd, dinner neuropsych test in 4th grade.

Not the life I envisioned but I kept my career, entity and clarity in his bad behavior patterns. The incompetency is so constant thought it’s unbelievable.

So your ADHD kid is destined to get divorced too? Or, shouldn’t expect to get married because they’ll never be able to do what is expected of them by their spouse? I find this so sad.

Great question. My asd/adhd kid is female.

On one hand, society still conditions females to be orderly, domestic and caring for others.

On the other hand, she can’t remember what day she last brushed her teeth. Must have been today. So you tell me what the bar is for asd/adhd women is.

You tell me. You’re the one divorcing her dad for the same diagnosis. Hopefully he’ll extend her some grace, and vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

these guys don’t actually have ADHD or autism. they’re just selfish and dysfunctional.

while you’re dating, pay attention to whether they successfully manage to keep their houses clean, cook, and take care of themselves. A red flag is if their mother or sister makes any reference (even if apparently flattering) about how you are “so good for him.” but most importantly - suss out how he handles any sort of domestic conflict, like planning a trip, handling chores, etc.

Just curious…if someone hires a cleaning service once per week, does that mean anything? If you recognize you aren’t that neat, does that indicate a self awareness that someone with ADHD/ASG doesn’t have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

so divorce?

Divorce, choose to accept his flaws, choose not to care about 90% of what's stressing her out, stop being a martyr, etc. She has lots of choices.

Oh, the “martyr” line. Yeah.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

I didn't say it's your fault. I said you reaction is within your control. Not the same thing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

What PP really means to say is “you’re all just a bunch of nagging martyrs. If you’d just stop caring everything would be fine.”

[Anonymous]

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

these guys don’t actually have ADHD or autism. they’re just selfish and dysfunctional.

while you’re dating, pay attention to whether they successfully manage to keep their houses clean, cook, and take care of themselves. A red flag is if their mother or sister makes any reference (even if apparently flattering) about how you are “so good for him.” but most importantly - suss out how he handles any sort of domestic conflict, like planning a trip, handling chores, etc.

Just curious…if someone hires a cleaning service once per week, does that mean anything? If you recognize you aren’t that neat, does that indicate a self awareness that someone with ADHD/ASG doesn’t have?

Oh yeah, that would absolutely be a good sign. But they also have to be amenable to your (reasonable) preferences since cleaners don’t come any day. Like, don’t throw wet towel on the floor, don’t throw my laundry on the floor because you want to do a load. If you cook he knows he has to do the dishes. Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question…other than just outright asking someone you are dating to tell you if they have ADHD or whatever…is there some other less rude way to figure this out? Will people lie to you about it, even if you ask?

Seems like 90% of the relationship threads have someone (usually the man) with some ADHD or ASG or whatever diagnosis.

these guys don’t actually have ADHD or autism. they’re just selfish and dysfunctional.

while you’re dating, pay attention to whether they successfully manage to keep their houses clean, cook, and take care of themselves. A red flag is if their mother or sister makes any reference (even if apparently flattering) about how you are “so good for him.” but most importantly - suss out how he handles any sort of domestic conflict, like planning a trip, handling chores, etc.

Just curious…if someone hires a cleaning service once per week, does that mean anything? If you recognize you aren’t that neat, does that indicate a self awareness that someone with ADHD/ASG doesn’t have?

Oh yeah, that would absolutely be a good sign. But they also have to be amenable to your (reasonable) preferences since cleaners don’t come any day. Like, don’t throw wet towel on the floor, don’t throw my laundry on the floor because you want to do a load. If you cook he knows he has to do the dishes. Etc.

and btw … people with ASHD and ASD can have plenty of self awareness and keep things together. my dad would probably be diagnosed today but he was a very active household contributor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

I didn't say it's your fault. I said you reaction is within your control. Not the same thing at all.

Humans aren’t rocks. We get angry when we are taken advantage of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

What PP really means to say is “you’re all just a bunch of nagging martyrs. If you’d just stop caring everything would be fine.”

Well, what OP is doing isn’t working. Maybe if she calmed down a bit, or tried a new tactic, he might respond more. Maybe he won’t, but you never know until you try. I know that’s more labor, but it’s really two people in a relationship. It’s never just one person’s fault. I did that with my parents, and it worked. Along with accepting who they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option.

Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud. The other option is accepting that her partner just won’t help. Aaaaaand we’re back at the black and white thinking. No middle ground, no let’s find out what works for both people. The bar is as low as you decide it should be. Accept it or be upset, your choice!

I swear, the crumbs on the table people are masters at projection. No one is more controlling than the person who digs in and refuses to act. I have an ex like this. His tag line was “you want to control all the decisions”, when the truth was that the future absolutely paralyzed him, and he couldn’t make decisions, period. But rather than facing that, he lashed out at me. It was way easier than facing his own personal failings.

spot on. did you end up getting married? how is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

The main point and the true black and white here is he controls what he does and she controls what she does. Period. She can't control him into doing what she wants. It doesn't matter the quality of what he's doing, it's futile by definition. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks he should or shouldn't do and what he does or doesn't do and why, she can only control herself. Same whether he's disabled or a jerk.

Right now she's letting herself get upset at things for which getting upset isn't the only option. That was the point of mentioning how many constraints could be put on the gift and that there's a continuum of gift choices. His preference falls on a different part of the continuum.

It doesn't matter how many gifts and other tasks there are either. Still the only things she can control are her attitude and her actions. So her time and effort would be better spent accepting that than trying to change him.

I’m sorry but this is the dumbest take ever.

If anything your spouse or in fact anyone does upsets or annoys you It’s your fault bc you are responsible for your reactions

What PP really means to say is “you’re all just a bunch of nagging martyrs. If you’d just stop caring everything would be fine.”

Well, what OP is doing isn’t working. Maybe if she calmed down a bit, or tried a new tactic, he might respond more. Maybe he won’t, but you never know until you try. I know that’s more labor, but it’s really two people in a relationship. It’s never just one person’s fault. I did that with my parents, and it worked. Along with accepting who they are.

I mean - THAT sounds like martyrdom. Who wants to accept this kind of behavior?