MCPS Reaches Agreement with MCEA to Raise Teachers' Wages

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

DP. There are military families who do that. That is well known.

We are a military family. Most move every two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t, in principle, have a problem with paying teachers more. I just think it's counterproductive to do large, across-the-board raises when older teachers already make well above the median income. Heck, they make more than the median household income on their own!

Pay is a serious issue for starting teachers, who in many ways have even harder jobs as they adapt lesson plans and materials for themselves. They should get substantial pay raises. Similarly, some areas, like special education, should be on higher salary schedules due to the increased challenges with recruiting and retaining them in the field.

The real problem across-the-board is teacher workload. The MCPS salary agreement mostly helps veteran teachers, many of whom are nearing retirement. Not only will it do little to help the long-term challenge of attracting teachers, it could make it harder to fix the real problem. More money on higher salaries means there's less money to spend on more teachers.

Don't the vast majority of teachers agree that pay isn't the main problem? So why is MCPS digging itself into a bigger hole? And why are the younger teachers letting MCEA throw them under the bus to help the old teachers?

Throughout these posts, I see many people presenting that the fact that MCPS teachers make more than the median income in Montgomery County as the central argument that MCPS teachers should be happy to get what they get. What is the median household income in Montgomery County for someone with a masters degree or a doctorate degree and how does that compare to that of an MCPS teacher with a masters or doctorate degree? I couldn't find that data specific to our county, but the Economic Policy Institute has tracked this data on a national level and the difference between the earnings of teachers as compared to other professionals with the same level of education has increased over time. In 2021, Teachers earned 23.5% less than comparable college graduates.

Here is the article:
https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-penalty-2022/
And here is a summary of the article: "Simply put, teachers are paid less (in weekly wages and total compensation) than their nonteacher college-educated counterparts, and the situation has worsened considerably over time."


The fact of the matter is that many schools have teaching & paraprofessional vacancies that have not been filled. If the job was so cushy and well-compensated as some of you here suggest, there would not be so many vacancies. Many teachers have left or are planning to leave for jobs that are not as emotionally taxing on them or their families. For some it is worth it move into another less stressful job (even if that means a paycut).

Pay isn’t everything. A lot of people choose professions based on work/life balance. Given that it is impractical to expect the very large salary increases that would be necessary to offset the poor work/life balance of entry-level teachers, it is critical to address those other underlying issues with how schools structure those jobs.

You keep suggesting the pay is low, but it really isn’t when you dig into the data. The study you cited put the compensation gap at 14%. Once you further adjust for the area of education (e.g., comparing to social science degree holders) and public sector employees (and potentially the 10-month schedule, depending on the study), the gap will further shrink, if not invert.

That's not to say there aren't problems that need to be addressed, but increasing the salary of a 50-year-old with a Master's/Doctorate in Education from ~$110k by another $6k next year isn't going to do anything to fix the real problems.

Ya, I don't see the problem here. People are making higher than the county's median income starting out with 0 xp for a job where you work 180 days minus generous personal leave.

Generous personal leave? 5 days a year is sooo generous. Still staying fixated on the 180 day thing I see. Pathetic.

Most people get 10, at most for a professional job. So, when you factor in that they have thanksgiving, Christmas, spring break off, it is generous as most people use their leave for those things.

Someone still doesn’t understand contracts. Stay mad. It’ll get you absolutely no where.

We do and they are decently paid for their contracted days.

Most don’t understand it at all actually. Read this thread. And, no they are not paid decently. Nice try.

When you compare them to others in the county with same credentials they make more, better benefits and less days they work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So, when is he retiring?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So, when is he retiring?

. And, do you have kids in mcps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So funny because the “doubtful that you are moving every year poster” just proved your point. MoCo parents (I am a MoCo parent and I agree wholeheartedly bc I see this on a daily basis) are terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So, when is he retiring?

. And, do you have kids in mcps?

Lol at the entitlement. I owe you nothing. He’ll retire when he wants and we have multiple kids in MCPS… again, absolutely no business of yours. You need to seek some serious help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So, when is he retiring?

. And, do you have kids in mcps?

Lol at the entitlement. I owe you nothing. He’ll retire when he wants and we have multiple kids in MCPS… again, absolutely no business of yours. You need to seek some serious help.

Doubtful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a first-year teacher makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

So a first-year doctor makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year lawyer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year engineer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

My first year out of college, with a bachelor's degree in environmental science, I made more than the county's median income (adjusted for inflation),

Teaching ES isn't precisely comparable to performing heart surgery. Med school and residency take over a decade or more.

I've known a few remarkable teachers, but most seem to have degrees in psychology from Towson State. No offense but that is hardly comparable.

What's your obsession with Towson? You get rejected from there or something? Absolutely sounds like it. Stop disparaging other people's educations while hiding behind a keyboard. You have the mentality of a thirteen year old. Gross to see on a grown adult.

DP, but I imagine “psychology degree from Towson” is just a metaphor for any degree with relatively limited earning potential from an unimpressive school. There are a few people in this thread that seem to be making willfully misleading comparisons between professions and degrees.

People are comparing because there seem to be posters on this thread who don't understand the concept of contracts or how they work. There are people in this thread who cannot handle teachers "only" work 180 days of the year, while failing to acknowledge that many other, high paying professions also do not work as much as most people, but no one seems to have a problem with those jobs. That is the entire point. It's not hard to understand, but DCUM people seem to be absolutely incapable of rational thought.

Everyone understands how contracts work.

Nobody has a problem with teachers being contracted for fewer than the 250 days (minus ten days of leave) that is more common in the full time workforce. The only reason care at all how many days teachers work is when discussions come up about comparing salaries. Shockingly, nobody cares about how many days oil rig workers work, because they aren't on these boards complaining about their pay. You know this, but are being willfully obtuse.

lol everyone except you. Still so salty because 10 different people had to explain something to you that you still don’t get?

Still sending your Sunday trying to bully people online are you?

I'm not even the same poster. I just recognize your pathetic posts when I see them now. Maybe it's time for you to stop posting.

I'm fascinated by the fact that apparently multiple posters here think it is somehow convincing or persuasive to talk to people this way. I can see through the fact that you all keep saying I don't understand, but you can't actually point to any actual statement I have made that is incorrect. Certainly, you all are good at imagining in your heads ridiculous things that people could say, and arguing against that, but then you are just arguing with yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So funny because the “doubtful that you are moving every year poster” just proved your point. MoCo parents (I am a MoCo parent and I agree wholeheartedly bc I see this on a daily basis) are terrible.

Mcps quality of teaching regardless of mcps issues is at an all time low. Some great teachers but few and far between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So, when is he retiring?

. And, do you have kids in mcps?

Lol at the entitlement. I owe you nothing. He’ll retire when he wants and we have multiple kids in MCPS… again, absolutely no business of yours. You need to seek some serious help.

Doubtful.

Just proving my point that MoCo parents are the worst. You do not matter. Thank goodness we’ll be moving again soon. Stay awful <3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a first-year teacher makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

So a first-year doctor makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year lawyer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year engineer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

My first year out of college, with a bachelor's degree in environmental science, I made more than the county's median income (adjusted for inflation),

Teaching ES isn't precisely comparable to performing heart surgery. Med school and residency take over a decade or more.

I've known a few remarkable teachers, but most seem to have degrees in psychology from Towson State. No offense but that is hardly comparable.

What's your obsession with Towson? You get rejected from there or something? Absolutely sounds like it. Stop disparaging other people's educations while hiding behind a keyboard. You have the mentality of a thirteen year old. Gross to see on a grown adult.

DP, but I imagine “psychology degree from Towson” is just a metaphor for any degree with relatively limited earning potential from an unimpressive school. There are a few people in this thread that seem to be making willfully misleading comparisons between professions and degrees.

People are comparing because there seem to be posters on this thread who don't understand the concept of contracts or how they work. There are people in this thread who cannot handle teachers "only" work 180 days of the year, while failing to acknowledge that many other, high paying professions also do not work as much as most people, but no one seems to have a problem with those jobs. That is the entire point. It's not hard to understand, but DCUM people seem to be absolutely incapable of rational thought.

Everyone understands how contracts work.

Nobody has a problem with teachers being contracted for fewer than the 250 days (minus ten days of leave) that is more common in the full time workforce. The only reason care at all how many days teachers work is when discussions come up about comparing salaries. Shockingly, nobody cares about how many days oil rig workers work, because they aren't on these boards complaining about their pay. You know this, but are being willfully obtuse.

lol everyone except you. Still so salty because 10 different people had to explain something to you that you still don’t get?

Still sending your Sunday trying to bully people online are you?

I'm not even the same poster. I just recognize your pathetic posts when I see them now. Maybe it's time for you to stop posting.

I'm fascinated by the fact that apparently multiple posters here think it is somehow convincing or persuasive to talk to people this way. I can see through the fact that you all keep saying I don't understand, but you can't actually point to any actual statement I have made that is incorrect. Certainly, you all are good at imagining in your heads ridiculous things that people could say, and arguing against that, but then you are just arguing with yourselves.

I don’t even care about this topic but don’t you know when it’s time to shut up? No one takes you seriously. Your posts are incoherent. You haven’t actually made any sense. You’re arguing with multiple people and you can’t even pick out who is who but yet we all know who you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a first-year teacher makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

So a first-year doctor makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year lawyer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year engineer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

My first year out of college, with a bachelor's degree in environmental science, I made more than the county's median income (adjusted for inflation),

Teaching ES isn't precisely comparable to performing heart surgery. Med school and residency take over a decade or more.

I've known a few remarkable teachers, but most seem to have degrees in psychology from Towson State. No offense but that is hardly comparable.

What's your obsession with Towson? You get rejected from there or something? Absolutely sounds like it. Stop disparaging other people's educations while hiding behind a keyboard. You have the mentality of a thirteen year old. Gross to see on a grown adult.

DP, but I imagine “psychology degree from Towson” is just a metaphor for any degree with relatively limited earning potential from an unimpressive school. There are a few people in this thread that seem to be making willfully misleading comparisons between professions and degrees.

People are comparing because there seem to be posters on this thread who don't understand the concept of contracts or how they work. There are people in this thread who cannot handle teachers "only" work 180 days of the year, while failing to acknowledge that many other, high paying professions also do not work as much as most people, but no one seems to have a problem with those jobs. That is the entire point. It's not hard to understand, but DCUM people seem to be absolutely incapable of rational thought.

Everyone understands how contracts work.

Nobody has a problem with teachers being contracted for fewer than the 250 days (minus ten days of leave) that is more common in the full time workforce. The only reason care at all how many days teachers work is when discussions come up about comparing salaries. Shockingly, nobody cares about how many days oil rig workers work, because they aren't on these boards complaining about their pay. You know this, but are being willfully obtuse.

lol everyone except you. Still so salty because 10 different people had to explain something to you that you still don’t get?

Still sending your Sunday trying to bully people online are you?

I'm not even the same poster. I just recognize your pathetic posts when I see them now. Maybe it's time for you to stop posting.

I'm fascinated by the fact that apparently multiple posters here think it is somehow convincing or persuasive to talk to people this way. I can see through the fact that you all keep saying I don't understand, but you can't actually point to any actual statement I have made that is incorrect. Certainly, you all are good at imagining in your heads ridiculous things that people could say, and arguing against that, but then you are just arguing with yourselves.

I don’t even care about this topic but don’t you know when it’s time to shut up? No one takes you seriously. Your posts are incoherent. You haven’t actually made any sense. You’re arguing with multiple people and you can’t even pick out who is who but yet we all know who you are.

Why do you think it's okay to talk to people this way? The fact that it's multiple people does not make it better. Why would I be able to pick out who is who on an anonymous message board? Literally answer that question, please?

[Anonymous]

I work for MCPS and wish I had stayed at DCPS. The first 15 years see step increases, with MCPS, then it plateau’s until year 20, then another plateau until year 25, and that’s it. Afterwards it’s COLA when or if applicable. DCPS has many more steps. Had I stayed, my annual income would have been about $15.000 more than now.
My rent in DC has quadrupled (with the 8.9 percent inflation in 2023) since 2004, yet my salary has barely doubled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a first-year teacher makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

So a first-year doctor makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year lawyer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?
So a first-year engineer makes as much as the county's median income, and they feel underpaid?

My first year out of college, with a bachelor's degree in environmental science, I made more than the county's median income (adjusted for inflation),

Teaching ES isn't precisely comparable to performing heart surgery. Med school and residency take over a decade or more.

I've known a few remarkable teachers, but most seem to have degrees in psychology from Towson State. No offense but that is hardly comparable.

What's your obsession with Towson? You get rejected from there or something? Absolutely sounds like it. Stop disparaging other people's educations while hiding behind a keyboard. You have the mentality of a thirteen year old. Gross to see on a grown adult.

DP, but I imagine “psychology degree from Towson” is just a metaphor for any degree with relatively limited earning potential from an unimpressive school. There are a few people in this thread that seem to be making willfully misleading comparisons between professions and degrees.

People are comparing because there seem to be posters on this thread who don't understand the concept of contracts or how they work. There are people in this thread who cannot handle teachers "only" work 180 days of the year, while failing to acknowledge that many other, high paying professions also do not work as much as most people, but no one seems to have a problem with those jobs. That is the entire point. It's not hard to understand, but DCUM people seem to be absolutely incapable of rational thought.

Everyone understands how contracts work.

Nobody has a problem with teachers being contracted for fewer than the 250 days (minus ten days of leave) that is more common in the full time workforce. The only reason care at all how many days teachers work is when discussions come up about comparing salaries. Shockingly, nobody cares about how many days oil rig workers work, because they aren't on these boards complaining about their pay. You know this, but are being willfully obtuse.

lol everyone except you. Still so salty because 10 different people had to explain something to you that you still don’t get?

Still sending your Sunday trying to bully people online are you?

I'm not even the same poster. I just recognize your pathetic posts when I see them now. Maybe it's time for you to stop posting.

I'm fascinated by the fact that apparently multiple posters here think it is somehow convincing or persuasive to talk to people this way. I can see through the fact that you all keep saying I don't understand, but you can't actually point to any actual statement I have made that is incorrect. Certainly, you all are good at imagining in your heads ridiculous things that people could say, and arguing against that, but then you are just arguing with yourselves.

I don’t even care about this topic but don’t you know when it’s time to shut up? No one takes you seriously. Your posts are incoherent. You haven’t actually made any sense. You’re arguing with multiple people and you can’t even pick out who is who but yet we all know who you are.

Why do you think it's okay to talk to people this way? The fact that it's multiple people does not make it better. Why would I be able to pick out who is who on an anonymous message board? Literally answer that question, please?

Use that grey matter called your brain. I’ve easily followed along and can see who posted what. Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a military family and we've had children in 17 different states. Been in MoCo for the past two years. I can tell you I have never seen more vitriol for teachers than I have in this county. We've lived in some...interesting places..Florida, Alabama, Louisiana. Never have I seen a group of people feel so entitled about teachers', their hours, their work/life balance than here. No wonder teachers are leaving MoCo to take lower paying jobs in neighboring counties. Look in the mirror. You're the problem.

17 states. Doubtful as then you are moving every year or more.

Why would I lie about this? My husbands been in the military for 34 years… we’ve moved less than most people I know. Try educating yourself first. So ridiculous.

So funny because the “doubtful that you are moving every year poster” just proved your point. MoCo parents (I am a MoCo parent and I agree wholeheartedly bc I see this on a daily basis) are terrible.

Mcps quality of teaching regardless of mcps issues is at an all time low. Some great teachers but few and far between.

Since 1865? If not earlier? Wow.