Why Was My Son Deferred from Duke ED?

[Anonymous]

OP, please listen to this podcast: https://yourcollegeboundkid.com/2023/01/19/ycbk-293-hi-scoring-students-drive-up-apps/

From the episode: "Are you surprised when it rains when the forecast is 95% rain?" The chance of admittance to Duke ED unhooked is under 10%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs talking about feeder schools, the top boarding schools still hold a lot of sway, although I agree it’s less than say 20+ years ago. Here’s an example of someone who was accepted Duke ED this year - perhaps slightly less impressive than OP’s son on paper but seems well connected which may have pushed him over the edge. Copy and pasted from another college forum:

“Accepted

Demographics: White Male, Upper Class, Top Private Boarding School in Northeast (Feeds into Ivies, Stanford, Duke)

Areas of Interest: Math/Stats/Classical Studies

GPA: We have a different scale but it translates to ~3.95/4.0 UW, top 5% of class

SAT: 1590 (800 Math)

Coursework: Most rigorous (goes beyond scope of AP/IB), 5s on the AP exams I took

ECs:

1. School Based Non-Profit Co-Founder
2. Math Team Co-Head
3. President of Investment Club
4. Varsity Squash Captain
5. Varsity Soccer
6. Hedge Fund Paid Summer Intern
7. Student Council
8. Peer Tutor
9. Classics Club

Awards:

1. AIME Qualifier/Multiple AMC Awards/Local Math Competition Awards
2. Early Cum Laude Inductee/Various School Academic Honors
3. Multiple Coaches’ Awards for Athletics
4. Multiple School Awards for Non-Profit
5. NMSF/AP Scholar with Distinction

LORs: Math Teacher should be very strong, Classics Teacher should also be strong, Counselor should be above average.

Essays: Common App wasn’t very groundbreaking but I was told it’s well written. Why Duke was authentic and I tried to avoid cliche topics. For optional essays I chose Questioning Beliefs and Best Academic Experience. I thought Questioning Beliefs was okay, and Best Academic Experience was my strongest along with Why Duke.

Very glad the process is over, and even more excited to spend the next four years at Duke. I almost applied to Yale early but the more I learned about Duke, the more I realized it was my top choice. Good luck to everyone else!”

However I can’t say this student didn’t deserve to get in either, the academics seem top notch for him too. Bottom line, the applicant pool was likely very competitive this year for early decision, with lots of top students showing they really want to go to Duke. Unfortunately not much else you can do but wait OP.

+1 OP you should see what happened with Duke on other posts/sites that talk about college admissions to get a sense of what the competition is like, and from what I’ve seen it’s pretty brutal. Some very qualified ED applicants similar to your son were outright rejected. Nowadays outside of HPSM and Caltech, it’s hard to find a place tougher to get accepted at than Duke.

Agreed, OP your son did everything right but at the end of the day it’s Duke, and all you have is a lottery ticket to get in

[Anonymous]

I lived in the South and there were special high schools that were breeding students for Duke. I think they are very particular about where they pull from and without athletic commitments, it’s very competitive to nab a spot OOS.

Congrats to your child in all his acceptances and let him know that he did everything right but sometimes there’s just not enough spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I lived in the South and there were special high schools that were breeding students for Duke. I think they are very particular about where they pull from and without athletic commitments, it’s very competitive to nab a spot OOS.

Congrats to your child in all his acceptances and let him know that he did everything right but sometimes there’s just not enough spots.

I don't think the high school argument makes as much sense here because it's ED. Duke just has to say yes and OP's son will enroll, so the power is in Duke's hands. At that point they're just trying to see if the kid is a good fit and will do well at Duke or make a contribution to the incoming class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs talking about feeder schools, the top boarding schools still hold a lot of sway, although I agree it’s less than say 20+ years ago. Here’s an example of someone who was accepted Duke ED this year - perhaps slightly less impressive than OP’s son on paper but seems well connected which may have pushed him over the edge. Copy and pasted from another college forum:

“Accepted

Demographics: White Male, Upper Class, Top Private Boarding School in Northeast (Feeds into Ivies, Stanford, Duke)

Areas of Interest: Math/Stats/Classical Studies

GPA: We have a different scale but it translates to ~3.95/4.0 UW, top 5% of class

SAT: 1590 (800 Math)

Coursework: Most rigorous (goes beyond scope of AP/IB), 5s on the AP exams I took

ECs:

1. School Based Non-Profit Co-Founder
2. Math Team Co-Head
3. President of Investment Club
4. Varsity Squash Captain
5. Varsity Soccer
6. Hedge Fund Paid Summer Intern
7. Student Council
8. Peer Tutor
9. Classics Club

Awards:

1. AIME Qualifier/Multiple AMC Awards/Local Math Competition Awards
2. Early Cum Laude Inductee/Various School Academic Honors
3. Multiple Coaches’ Awards for Athletics
4. Multiple School Awards for Non-Profit
5. NMSF/AP Scholar with Distinction

LORs: Math Teacher should be very strong, Classics Teacher should also be strong, Counselor should be above average.

Essays: Common App wasn’t very groundbreaking but I was told it’s well written. Why Duke was authentic and I tried to avoid cliche topics. For optional essays I chose Questioning Beliefs and Best Academic Experience. I thought Questioning Beliefs was okay, and Best Academic Experience was my strongest along with Why Duke.

Very glad the process is over, and even more excited to spend the next four years at Duke. I almost applied to Yale early but the more I learned about Duke, the more I realized it was my top choice. Good luck to everyone else!”

However I can’t say this student didn’t deserve to get in either, the academics seem top notch for him too. Bottom line, the applicant pool was likely very competitive this year for early decision, with lots of top students showing they really want to go to Duke. Unfortunately not much else you can do but wait OP.

Varsity Squash Captain, 1590 SAT, and top 5% probably would have gotten Princeton but understandable that the student wanted to apply ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, please listen to this podcast: https://yourcollegeboundkid.com/2023/01/19/ycbk-293-hi-scoring-students-drive-up-apps/

From the episode: "Are you surprised when it rains when the forecast is 95% rain?" The chance of admittance to Duke ED unhooked is under 10%.

Right, but the issue is what constitutes "hooked". The answer is not as easy as one might think. Hooked is both fluid as well as school specific.

[Anonymous]

My question to OP and others posters who have kids with similar profile and stats, when did your kids ‘start’ the college admissions journey? In elementary school? Did they play on travel teams? Get enrichment outside of school? It just seems like a lot of work for a really long time.. just wondering

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My question to OP and others posters who have kids with similar profile and stats, when did your kids ‘start’ the college admissions journey? In elementary school? Did they play on travel teams? Get enrichment outside of school? It just seems like a lot of work for a really long time.. just wondering

It is not going to work if it is "college admissions journey". These are motivated bright people that choose to spend their time on academic and other enriching pursuits.

Then they package that up into applications. I don't think you can just decide to be interested in science research, or piano, or ballet, or base ball and be really good at it. These applicants follow natural interests or talents for years because they are natural interests and talents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My question to OP and others posters who have kids with similar profile and stats, when did your kids ‘start’ the college admissions journey? In elementary school? Did they play on travel teams? Get enrichment outside of school? It just seems like a lot of work for a really long time.. just wondering

There are motivated individuals who do what they do out of curiosity,ambition, & passion. While boosting one's attractiveness to colleges may be a byproduct, it usually is not the impetus in my experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PPs talking about feeder schools, the top boarding schools still hold a lot of sway, although I agree it’s less than say 20+ years ago. Here’s an example of someone who was accepted Duke ED this year - perhaps slightly less impressive than OP’s son on paper but seems well connected which may have pushed him over the edge. Copy and pasted from another college forum:

“Accepted

Demographics: White Male, Upper Class, Top Private Boarding School in Northeast (Feeds into Ivies, Stanford, Duke)

Areas of Interest: Math/Stats/Classical Studies

GPA: We have a different scale but it translates to ~3.95/4.0 UW, top 5% of class

SAT: 1590 (800 Math)

Coursework: Most rigorous (goes beyond scope of AP/IB), 5s on the AP exams I took

ECs:

1. School Based Non-Profit Co-Founder
2. Math Team Co-Head
3. President of Investment Club
4. Varsity Squash Captain
5. Varsity Soccer
6. Hedge Fund Paid Summer Intern
7. Student Council
8. Peer Tutor
9. Classics Club

Awards:

1. AIME Qualifier/Multiple AMC Awards/Local Math Competition Awards
2. Early Cum Laude Inductee/Various School Academic Honors
3. Multiple Coaches’ Awards for Athletics
4. Multiple School Awards for Non-Profit
5. NMSF/AP Scholar with Distinction

LORs: Math Teacher should be very strong, Classics Teacher should also be strong, Counselor should be above average.

Essays: Common App wasn’t very groundbreaking but I was told it’s well written. Why Duke was authentic and I tried to avoid cliche topics. For optional essays I chose Questioning Beliefs and Best Academic Experience. I thought Questioning Beliefs was okay, and Best Academic Experience was my strongest along with Why Duke.

Very glad the process is over, and even more excited to spend the next four years at Duke. I almost applied to Yale early but the more I learned about Duke, the more I realized it was my top choice. Good luck to everyone else!”

However I can’t say this student didn’t deserve to get in either, the academics seem top notch for him too. Bottom line, the applicant pool was likely very competitive this year for early decision, with lots of top students showing they really want to go to Duke. Unfortunately not much else you can do but wait OP.

Varsity Squash Captain, 1590 SAT, and top 5% probably would have gotten Princeton but understandable that the student wanted to apply ED.

It sounds like he wanted Duke in particular. “I almost applied to Yale early but the more I learned about Duke, the more I realized it was my top choice. Good luck to everyone else!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My question to OP and others posters who have kids with similar profile and stats, when did your kids ‘start’ the college admissions journey? In elementary school? Did they play on travel teams? Get enrichment outside of school? It just seems like a lot of work for a really long time.. just wondering

It is not going to work if it is "college admissions journey". These are motivated bright people that choose to spend their time on academic and other enriching pursuits.

Then they package that up into applications. I don't think you can just decide to be interested in science research, or piano, or ballet, or base ball and be really good at it. These applicants follow natural interests or talents for years because they are natural interests and talents.

You are so misguided. Absolutely parents plan the journey. What sports to play and which activities to do. It is a 100% planned!

[Anonymous]

You are so misguided. Absolutely parents plan the journey. What sports to play and which activities to do. It is a 100% planned!

You are embarrassingly wrong. I have one of those kids that loves to argue with people so reads up on topics he is interested in, follows his passions with his extracurriculars and that comes through when you know him and on his app, and is academically driven and self-motivated. Also plays a travel sport. We actually encourage him to dial it back, but that’s not his nature. There may be kids who do it for packaging, but I would think by high school it would be almost impossible to force your kid into ECs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are so misguided. Absolutely parents plan the journey. What sports to play and which activities to do. It is a 100% planned!

You are embarrassingly wrong. I have one of those kids that loves to argue with people so reads up on topics he is interested in, follows his passions with his extracurriculars and that comes through when you know him and on his app, and is academically driven and self-motivated. Also plays a travel sport. We actually encourage him to dial it back, but that’s not his nature. There may be kids who do it for packaging, but I would think by high school it would be almost impossible to force your kid into ECs, etc.

+1 by high school kids might get a little help or nudge by parents, but most of the high achieving ones are able to do so on their own accord. At that point the standard has been set internally and changing that would take a lot of help from the parents, which mostly doesn’t happen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are so misguided. Absolutely parents plan the journey. What sports to play and which activities to do. It is a 100% planned!

You are embarrassingly wrong. I have one of those kids that loves to argue with people so reads up on topics he is interested in, follows his passions with his extracurriculars and that comes through when you know him and on his app, and is academically driven and self-motivated. Also plays a travel sport. We actually encourage him to dial it back, but that’s not his nature. There may be kids who do it for packaging, but I would think by high school it would be almost impossible to force your kid into ECs, etc.

+1 by high school kids might get a little help or nudge by parents, but most of the high achieving ones are able to do so on their own accord. At that point the standard has been set internally and changing that would take a lot of help from the parents, which mostly doesn’t happen

I agree that most of these kids are hard chargers on their own - but don't fool yourself - there are schemer parents out there that absolutely make a difference. For example - have kids play squash for example and travel oodles just to be ranked in a very very low volume sport to get another leg up on their legacy admissions. There are other examples too. There's certainly more schemes out there beyond Varsity Blues. Plenty of customers in the college game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are so misguided. Absolutely parents plan the journey. What sports to play and which activities to do. It is a 100% planned!

You are embarrassingly wrong. I have one of those kids that loves to argue with people so reads up on topics he is interested in, follows his passions with his extracurriculars and that comes through when you know him and on his app, and is academically driven and self-motivated. Also plays a travel sport. We actually encourage him to dial it back, but that’s not his nature. There may be kids who do it for packaging, but I would think by high school it would be almost impossible to force your kid into ECs, etc.

Yes you can’t force in HS. Thats why the planning starts early to try to get the kids good enough to be recruited or be able to get on HS teams. Even with naturally good athletes you need pushy parents. I know parents who hired private coaches for squash, soccer, Basketball and even running. You put your kids on travel teams, send them to exclusive sports camps, and play club sports, you think that the 7/8 year olds can figure this stuff out? No. Of course not. But you push them when they are young so they get good enough. Once they are good enough and you have drilled into them what’s important and why they need to work hard they can take the lead in HS. But some unlucky ones burn out by then either physically or mentally or both. But don’t tell me that a kid just loves to basketball and never played travel or club and was able to get on HS team and become a captain. Thats BS. You can fool yourself fine.. but that’s not the reality.