NYTs Etiquette - "I Refused to Switch Seats on a Plane. Twice. Was I Wrong?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

The PP has a point. Solo travelers (not necessarily single as in marital status) are often targets for the "would you consider moving" pitch. It has happened to me many times. I feel the airline staff single us out, make the request with the parent/child standing there looking at us and then we are expected to smile graciously and give up our seats.

I did it for awhile and usually wound up in some horrid situation where I got a seat that didn't recline or next to an annoying person. I reminded myself that No good deed goes unpunished.
So I stopped.

Last time it was a very entitled, abrasive woman who wanted to shift around 3 people so she could get herself and her kids all seated together. She had gone up and down asking people (holding up boarding BTW) and had figured out a hopscotch pattern of moving other passengers simply to accommodate HER desires.

The kids were in their early teens! I just said "No. Sorry." and went back to reading my book.

To be more accurate, solo FEMALE travelers (especially over a certain age) are the first targets. Watch the next time it happens -- the flight attendants NEVER ask men to move.

My DW takes advantage of this on Southwest and eagerly volunteers to move -- last time she did that, she got $840 in vouchers.

I am a solo female traveler flying 10-15 hours per week on 4-10 legs. I do not give up my seat. For me to spend that much time traveling and have that kind of status (I fly only one airline and their partners), I select my seats very intentionally.

...OK? The PP didn't say every solo female traveler ever definitely gives up their seat. But you wanted to share your STATUS, so congrats and here's a cookie!

Not pp. What a jerk response. I would feel the same way as pp. This is all the fault of the airline and people are being doormats giving in to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/style/airplane-seat-etiquette-social-qs.html

Personally, as a parent, I now realize that families really do need the bulkhead. If the guy wants to prioritize leg-room, he should book an exit row seat.

That said, I don't think he was wrong for refusing to give up his seat. He paid extra for it and those seats are not cheap (usually $50-100 extra)!

The bolded 100% NOT TRUE. And if a family wants the bulkhead, they should pay for it.

I am a mom of two - we typically have to sit 3+1 and even if our single seat is in a completely different area of the airplane, we have never asked to switch unless it's Aisle to Aisle in the same section of the plane.

Right but the WHOLE family doesn’t have to sit together. You could do parent child, parent child. I’m also astounded at the whole families that come to the grocery together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've only given up my seat twice and both times were for overbooked flights where I didn't have a strict travel deadline. The extreme overcompensation by the airline made both times more than worth it.

I have never, and probably will never, give up my seat for no compensation or for a regular person who wants to sit near their kid. I had a mom tell me "good luck dealing with her!" after I wouldn't give up my window seat for her crappy middle seat so she could sit next to her 5 yo DD. Her seat was in a 3-seat row and mine was in a 2-seat row. I'd paid extra for that, too. Not. Happening. The kid was fine. She watched her iPad movie the whole flight. And even if she had been annoying, that's what noise canceling headphones are for. There's no rule that says I have to engage with your kid.

In this situation, the right move is to ask the person she's sitting next to to move seats, so that person would be improving their seat, or at least making a lateral move. Asking to move a window seat for a middle seat is ridiculous. It shows she wasn't really concerned about sitting with her kid, she just wanted to improve her seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

The PP has a point. Solo travelers (not necessarily single as in marital status) are often targets for the "would you consider moving" pitch. It has happened to me many times. I feel the airline staff single us out, make the request with the parent/child standing there looking at us and then we are expected to smile graciously and give up our seats.

I did it for awhile and usually wound up in some horrid situation where I got a seat that didn't recline or next to an annoying person. I reminded myself that No good deed goes unpunished.
So I stopped.

Last time it was a very entitled, abrasive woman who wanted to shift around 3 people so she could get herself and her kids all seated together. She had gone up and down asking people (holding up boarding BTW) and had figured out a hopscotch pattern of moving other passengers simply to accommodate HER desires.

The kids were in their early teens! I just said "No. Sorry." and went back to reading my book.

To be more accurate, solo FEMALE travelers (especially over a certain age) are the first targets. Watch the next time it happens -- the flight attendants NEVER ask men to move.

My DW takes advantage of this on Southwest and eagerly volunteers to move -- last time she did that, she got $840 in vouchers.

I've never seen anyone offered vouchers once they are boarded on the plane. The issue arises because they are asking people to move out of the goodness of their hearts, to take pity on the poor family who absolutely most sit all next to each other. No compensation is offered, just some puppy dog eyes and pleading for you to do the right thing when put on the spot. Even though you will now be in the back of the plane/middle seat/less leg room. It's always a downgrade.

You must not fly Southwest. They throw vouchers around like candy. We currently have four of them taped to the fridge -- two for moving seats, and two for giving up a seat on a two-leg flight (and then getting booked on a later but direct flight at no additional charge).

DP here. My family flies Southwest all the time and they don’t bump people because they don’t ever oversell their flights as other airlines do. They also do family boarding so that families are already all sitting together.

Yes, nothing EVER goes wrong on Southwest. 🙄

I was literally just on SW and at the end of boarding the flight attendant asked if anyone could accommodate a mom and her toddler if they had a free middle seat next to them. Presumably, the volunteer would have been moved to a middle seat. The FA offered the volunteer "free drinks because that's all she had" since SW doesn't have first class or anything like that.

I was in a weird position there because I didn't have a middle seat next to me free at the time. But then, shortly after the request was made, the guy in the window seat went to go pilot the plane (don't ask, I have no idea why -- it was odd). So, the middle seat guy moved to the window, and now the middle seat was open. the flight attendants came back on and asked again for a volunteer, but by the time I internalized that the pilot wasn't coming back, they had found seats for the mom and kid. I would have done it, even though I paid to have an A boarding number and have anxiety issues that an aisle seat addresses, because kindness is free and I have no idea why the mom was late to board. Plus, it was, what, like, 2 hours of my life?

Would I give up an aisle on an international flight? Ugh. I probably would. But I'd wait until the last minute because a middle on a long haul flight would suck.

In this instance, it isn't. It's the cost of whatever you paid for A boarding, plus whatever cost you ascribe to your anxiety.

[Anonymous]

I booked the bulkhead when kid was a new walker. They were not to be contained and with me on aisle it helped. Yes I paid for both seats. 🙀

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

The PP has a point. Solo travelers (not necessarily single as in marital status) are often targets for the "would you consider moving" pitch. It has happened to me many times. I feel the airline staff single us out, make the request with the parent/child standing there looking at us and then we are expected to smile graciously and give up our seats.

I did it for awhile and usually wound up in some horrid situation where I got a seat that didn't recline or next to an annoying person. I reminded myself that No good deed goes unpunished.
So I stopped.

Last time it was a very entitled, abrasive woman who wanted to shift around 3 people so she could get herself and her kids all seated together. She had gone up and down asking people (holding up boarding BTW) and had figured out a hopscotch pattern of moving other passengers simply to accommodate HER desires.

The kids were in their early teens! I just said "No. Sorry." and went back to reading my book.

To be more accurate, solo FEMALE travelers (especially over a certain age) are the first targets. Watch the next time it happens -- the flight attendants NEVER ask men to move.

My DW takes advantage of this on Southwest and eagerly volunteers to move -- last time she did that, she got $840 in vouchers.

I’ve taken vouchers to wait an hour.

I did this once and the hour delay turned into a few hours as the next plane had "mechanical issues". So, won't make that mistake again.

Could have easily happened the opposite way, where your "later" flight left on time as the original flight sat around for 6 hours.

I'll take my chances because you will definitely wait an hour by switching, it's a sure thing. By the time you are volunteering to give up your seat you know if there will be a delay or not on the original flight. So, not "easily happened" much more of an unknown by switching. Not much of a gambler, eh?

All I can say is if you're never boarded your flight just to be deplaned 3 minutes later for a mechanical problem that was found during pre flight checks, then consider yourself lucky. You 10000% do not know if there will be a delay or not on your original flight just because the gate agent is asking people to switch. That's laughable.

Cool. But I'll take my chances with the plane already at the gate boarding over the plane not yet arrived and supposedly taking off in an hour every time which could still have an unknown mechanical delay. If you don't know to pick the plane already at the gate you can't be taken seriously.

[Anonymous]

I guess we’ve found the random group therapy post of the week…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/style/airplane-seat-etiquette-social-qs.html

Personally, as a parent, I now realize that families really do need the bulkhead. If the guy wants to prioritize leg-room, he should book an exit row seat.

That said, I don't think he was wrong for refusing to give up his seat. He paid extra for it and those seats are not cheap (usually $50-100 extra)!

The bolded 100% NOT TRUE. And if a family wants the bulkhead, they should pay for it.

I am a mom of two - we typically have to sit 3+1 and even if our single seat is in a completely different area of the airplane, we have never asked to switch unless it's Aisle to Aisle in the same section of the plane.

Right but the WHOLE family doesn’t have to sit together. You could do parent child, parent child. I’m also astounded at the whole families that come to the grocery together.

I know a mom and dad who do 99% of school and extra curricular drop offs and pickups together. Both know how to drive and have no health issues (they are my friends) but they just both want to be present during all the driving! My husband and I love the breaks when the other drives so I can’t imagine!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

The PP has a point. Solo travelers (not necessarily single as in marital status) are often targets for the "would you consider moving" pitch. It has happened to me many times. I feel the airline staff single us out, make the request with the parent/child standing there looking at us and then we are expected to smile graciously and give up our seats.

I did it for awhile and usually wound up in some horrid situation where I got a seat that didn't recline or next to an annoying person. I reminded myself that No good deed goes unpunished.
So I stopped.

Last time it was a very entitled, abrasive woman who wanted to shift around 3 people so she could get herself and her kids all seated together. She had gone up and down asking people (holding up boarding BTW) and had figured out a hopscotch pattern of moving other passengers simply to accommodate HER desires.

The kids were in their early teens! I just said "No. Sorry." and went back to reading my book.

To be more accurate, solo FEMALE travelers (especially over a certain age) are the first targets. Watch the next time it happens -- the flight attendants NEVER ask men to move.

My DW takes advantage of this on Southwest and eagerly volunteers to move -- last time she did that, she got $840 in vouchers.

I’ve taken vouchers to wait an hour.

I did this once and the hour delay turned into a few hours as the next plane had "mechanical issues". So, won't make that mistake again.

Could have easily happened the opposite way, where your "later" flight left on time as the original flight sat around for 6 hours.

I'll take my chances because you will definitely wait an hour by switching, it's a sure thing. By the time you are volunteering to give up your seat you know if there will be a delay or not on the original flight. So, not "easily happened" much more of an unknown by switching. Not much of a gambler, eh?

All I can say is if you're never boarded your flight just to be deplaned 3 minutes later for a mechanical problem that was found during pre flight checks, then consider yourself lucky. You 10000% do not know if there will be a delay or not on your original flight just because the gate agent is asking people to switch. That's laughable.

Cool. But I'll take my chances with the plane already at the gate boarding over the plane not yet arrived and supposedly taking off in an hour every time which could still have an unknown mechanical delay. If you don't know to pick the plane already at the gate you can't be taken seriously.

So you can easily track where the planes are. If the plane for the flight in an hour is 15min outside of Dulles and in the air, barring a crash landing that plane is just as good as at the gate. Truly. Now if the flight is in 6 hours and the plane you need hasn't even departed their previous airport yet then yes i'm obviously with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't read the article but I have seen the issue come up on various boards. In my opinion, being a family or traveling with kids doesn't entitle you to special treatment. When I travel with my family I pay to pick seats, early check-in, extra space - whatever I think we might need. If you're not willing to pay for that then you can't afford the trip. Other travelers have also paid for those services and they don't owe you anything.

I would like to live in a society that gives a little more grace and has a little more patience for society’s very young and very old (and their caretakers). Kindness is a value I love to see in companies and individuals alike.

Why are families the only ones deserving of kindness? Look at it this way--you have your loving family. Someone flying alone may be single and desperately lonely and sad about it. Who deserves the grace and compassion? It's this kind of myopia that makes parents of young children so repugnant at times.

Disclaimer: there's nothing intrinsically wrong with being single and many single people are happy and content.

Holy projection. Nowhere did I malign single people nor suggest they also aren’t deserving of grace and kindness. We all are. I believe American society suffers from a deep deficit of both. The several nasty responses to my quite benevolent post is proof of that.

I wonder where we’re headed from here.

The PP has a point. Solo travelers (not necessarily single as in marital status) are often targets for the "would you consider moving" pitch. It has happened to me many times. I feel the airline staff single us out, make the request with the parent/child standing there looking at us and then we are expected to smile graciously and give up our seats.

I did it for awhile and usually wound up in some horrid situation where I got a seat that didn't recline or next to an annoying person. I reminded myself that No good deed goes unpunished.
So I stopped.

Last time it was a very entitled, abrasive woman who wanted to shift around 3 people so she could get herself and her kids all seated together. She had gone up and down asking people (holding up boarding BTW) and had figured out a hopscotch pattern of moving other passengers simply to accommodate HER desires.

The kids were in their early teens! I just said "No. Sorry." and went back to reading my book.

To be more accurate, solo FEMALE travelers (especially over a certain age) are the first targets. Watch the next time it happens -- the flight attendants NEVER ask men to move.

My DW takes advantage of this on Southwest and eagerly volunteers to move -- last time she did that, she got $840 in vouchers.

I’ve taken vouchers to wait an hour.

I did this once and the hour delay turned into a few hours as the next plane had "mechanical issues". So, won't make that mistake again.

Could have easily happened the opposite way, where your "later" flight left on time as the original flight sat around for 6 hours.

I'll take my chances because you will definitely wait an hour by switching, it's a sure thing. By the time you are volunteering to give up your seat you know if there will be a delay or not on the original flight. So, not "easily happened" much more of an unknown by switching. Not much of a gambler, eh?

All I can say is if you're never boarded your flight just to be deplaned 3 minutes later for a mechanical problem that was found during pre flight checks, then consider yourself lucky. You 10000% do not know if there will be a delay or not on your original flight just because the gate agent is asking people to switch. That's laughable.

Cool. But I'll take my chances with the plane already at the gate boarding over the plane not yet arrived and supposedly taking off in an hour every time which could still have an unknown mechanical delay. If you don't know to pick the plane already at the gate you can't be taken seriously.

So you can easily track where the planes are. If the plane for the flight in an hour is 15min outside of Dulles and in the air, barring a crash landing that plane is just as good as at the gate. Truly. Now if the flight is in 6 hours and the plane you need hasn't even departed their previous airport yet then yes i'm obviously with you.

All things equal I'd rather leave now than in an hour. Because the risk that either has a mechanical issue is the same. But the airlines rely on suckers to take the crappy hard to use vouchers in exchange for sitting around an airport longer. I just want to get to my destination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s behind a paywall so I can’t read the article and comment. Please remember not everyone has a subscription to NYT. These posts with links that people can’t see are annoying.

If you're already hitting the paywall, it means you've read your articles for the month.

Subscribe you cheap f#ck. Good journalism isn't free.

I agree with the underlying sentiment, but these paywalls are a bit more complicated than that these days -- some people hit them immediately, some people hit them after a certain number of articles, sometimes it depends based on what the articles are, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/03/style/airplane-seat-etiquette-social-qs.html

Personally, as a parent, I now realize that families really do need the bulkhead. If the guy wants to prioritize leg-room, he should book an exit row seat.

That said, I don't think he was wrong for refusing to give up his seat. He paid extra for it and those seats are not cheap (usually $50-100 extra)!

The bolded 100% NOT TRUE. And if a family wants the bulkhead, they should pay for it.

I am a mom of two - we typically have to sit 3+1 and even if our single seat is in a completely different area of the airplane, we have never asked to switch unless it's Aisle to Aisle in the same section of the plane.

Right but the WHOLE family doesn’t have to sit together. You could do parent child, parent child. I’m also astounded at the whole families that come to the grocery together.

I am a parent with health issues. I don’t do much without my spouse near me as when the pain hits and it will, I struggle with things. You would not know by looking at me. While I try to avoid travel as it’s not fun with that kind of pain precivid there were times I had to fly to take care of my mil or my child had a medical appointment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s behind a paywall so I can’t read the article and comment. Please remember not everyone has a subscription to NYT. These posts with links that people can’t see are annoying.

If you're already hitting the paywall, it means you've read your articles for the month.

Subscribe you cheap f#ck. Good journalism isn't free.

I know that good journalism isn't free. That is why I pay to have the Washington Post delivered to me everyday. I don't live in New York, so I don't pay for the New York Times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If people are paying for particular seats, I think asking them to move isn’t reasonable. I am a parent and it’s been awhile since I’ve flown but I would absolutely pay to make sure my family was seated together. Now, if this is a case where the family reserved seats together and the airline changed things, then that’s on airline staff to make right.

This thread has 14 pages, but this comment on page 1 sums up how I feel. It's not like how it was 20 years ago. We all pay for the amenities we want on flights. If you paid to be together and it was an airline error, by all means, take it up with them. But if I'm seated with my kid and my 6'4 husband in the bulkhead that we paid an extra 500+ dollars for, it's really not my problem you didn't plan better or pay for more. And even if I'm flying solo, I'm not sympathetic to your pleas. Do better.

[Anonymous]

Last time I flew I paid $20 for my window seat. My kids seats (middle and window) were free and my husband was the aisle behind us which was also free. My kids were 4 and 8 and this was a 7 hour flight. The night before they switched our seats - I kept my aisle but the other 3 were assigned to random middles in the aircraft. There was a $20 window I could pay for to get one of us a non-aisle seat and then hope the person in the middle seat next to me would take the aisle, or there was a row - and a seat across - for $40 each. I paid for all of us to change seats but it was so annoying!!

Years ago I had an aisle seat and got to the airport and they’d given me a middle. I waited in line at customer service and eventually got my aisle back. I got to my seat and a man was sitting in it. He asked if he could have it to be near his kids - who were in their late teens. He offered me a middle (again cross country) in a plane that was 5 across. He said that he’d gotten up very early, taken a train to the airport and had flown from Germany and now had another long flight. I said that I’d been up much of the night throwing up with morning sickness and had to pee often and was flying home from a busy conference to my toddler. At that point he left me alone…