Girl's School and Gender Pronouns

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A few nuggets:

- The comment about learning disabilities might have been obnoxious, but there is actually something to this: Gender variance is higher among people with ASD and ADHD (google to find the studies, I'm too lazy sorry.) It makes sense, of course: If gender is a social construction, and people with Autism may find social communication challenging or do it different. Meanwhile, people with ADHD tend to "think outside the box." So people whose neurology diverges from the norm are increasingly constructing gender in divergent ways.

- This is a mass rebellion. Our girls are in open revolt, like it or not.

Am I the only one who read Judith Butler in college in the 90s? Butler figured gender as "performative." Nowadays, people say "performative" when they mean "mere performance, not real." But Butler meant it in the linguistic sense. An example of performative speech is "I now pronounce you man and wife." The pronouncement has the effect of shaping reality. Gender -- that is, the way in which we culturally communicate about biological sex -- functions the same way, Butler argued: Gender is real to the extent that it is performed -- and only to the extent that it is performed.

Whatever. The point is, the girls are basically screaming at us that they will not be compelled to perform "girlness" for us anymore. They are refusing, they are rebelling. Why? They don't even know themselves. But it feels viscerally wrong to them. That strikes me as deeply significant and worth paying attention to, without pre-judgement.

- That said, just because they zig doesn't mean we zag. I don't conflate listening to them with letting them call the shots. We can be loving and supportive and also conservative and careful. For example, my support for my child's gender creativity and exploration extends only to explorations that are noninvasive and nonmedical -- and that are about what THEY will do and not do (and not, for example, some sort of laundry list of demands for what others should do, say, perform.)

- I described this thread to my nonbinary 13-year-old. They said, "Well, if you don't like being called a girl and don't identify as one... then maybe a girl's school might not be the best place for you?" lol. Good point, weirdo!

Anyway. I am a public school parent and just happened across this thread, but I agree with those who say this is not going away overnight. If I were a Holton parent, I would suggest trying to judo this instead of fighting it head on. Be smart, compassionate, wise. And trust your children: They might be ridiculous but they are earnest. Their intuitions are correct. They're just getting the details wrong.

Really thoughtful post. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Not a surprise that a discussion on DCUM based on a misunderstanding (or so it seems) has spun out of control, fueled on by partisan hacks with their rusty cudgels at hand. What admin and faculty at girls' schools are careful not to do when addressing the entire student body is refer to them all as girls. Why? Because there are many students who don't identify as such and doing so would be rude and hurtful. When students address a group of students, we remind them not to presume all the students there fall on the gender binary or are cis-identified. Do they make mistakes? Absolutely. Do they learn from them? For sure. Now, the people gathered around here with the pitchforks and torches are taking this practice out of context, arguing that it shows these schools are no longer identifying as girls' school. While discussions about what it means to have nonbinary or trans-idenitified students attend an girls' school continue among the faculty and admin, these schools want to create welcoming, supportive environments of learning and, as such, are changing their practices to do so. As with any institutional changes, these will take time to implement. The reasons why many trans students remain at all-girls schools are complex. Many have forged lifelong bonds with their classmates and want to remain with them. Because of these friendships, the cis-identified students tend not to be threatened by those friends who are trans-, nonbinary, or just exploring their gender identity. But there are many other reasons too (the strength of smaller schools like Holton and NCS, especially for District residents). American society has become more accepting of gender exploration during adolscents, which makes me happy. I grew up in the 1980s, when I watched some friends struggle with their sexuality and what I presume was their gender identity (we did not have the terms to use back then). Because of the homophobia they experienced, they were severely depressed and a few tried to commit suicide. I'm happy to see my kid grow up during a time when kids can think about who they are rather than accept what society tells them they should be.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately little of what you just wrote is true.

Humans are born male or female. Saying you’re male doesn’t transform your ovaries into testicles. One can “identify” as any number of things but that doesn’t mean you’re actually that thing.

Homosexuality shouldn’t be confused with gender identity. They are two separate things. Cisgender is a term that’s employed to rationalize the irrational. I don’t care how you identify that up to you, but to force feed contemporary psychobabble onto young girls by their teachers is nothing short of brainwashing them. Tell they to accept everyone at face value nothing more nothing less.

I guess you’ll tell us that employing drugs to suppress puberty is a rational act?

[Anonymous]

Is using drugs to suppress the wanderings of a restless mind a rational act?

[Anonymous]

Drugging children to correct normal behavior given that most children are no longer physically active is another manifestation of the insanity that passes for truth.

[Anonymous]

A previous poster wrote in the middle of her post:

“What admin and faculty at girls' schools are careful not to do when addressing the entire student body is refer to them all as girls.”

Why is it that at boys’ schools they can address their students as boys or young men but you can’t address students as girls or young women at a girls’ school. Why do girls always have to be the ones to capitulate? Why do the girls who want to attend a girls only school have to attend a girls plus all inclusive school while boys get to attend a boys only school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately little of what you just wrote is true.

Humans are born male or female. Saying you’re male doesn’t transform your ovaries into testicles. One can “identify” as any number of things but that doesn’t mean you’re actually that thing.

Homosexuality shouldn’t be confused with gender identity. They are two separate things. Cisgender is a term that’s employed to rationalize the irrational. I don’t care how you identify that up to you, but to force feed contemporary psychobabble onto young girls by their teachers is nothing short of brainwashing them. Tell they to accept everyone at face value nothing more nothing less.

I guess you’ll tell us that employing drugs to suppress puberty is a rational act?

+1 the world has gone crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately little of what you just wrote is true.

Humans are born male or female. Saying you’re male doesn’t transform your ovaries into testicles. One can “identify” as any number of things but that doesn’t mean you’re actually that thing.

Homosexuality shouldn’t be confused with gender identity. They are two separate things. Cisgender is a term that’s employed to rationalize the irrational. I don’t care how you identify that up to you, but to force feed contemporary psychobabble onto young girls by their teachers is nothing short of brainwashing them. Tell they to accept everyone at face value nothing more nothing less.

I guess you’ll tell us that employing drugs to suppress puberty is a rational act?

There is plenty of negotiable space between "they" and puberty blockers. Let's breathe into that space, shall we?

Bodies have physical characteristics and properties. The language we use to communicate about those bodies is embedded in culture and is therefore contingent. There's nothing absolute about male and female as cultural categories. And, as it turns out, medical technology permits a degree of flexibility when it comes to bodies' characteristics and properties.

< shrug >

All language is arbitrary. Say the word "tree" enough times and you'll see what I mean.

But just because it's arbitrary doesn't make it not-real. It's useful to say "tree" and to have you know what I'm talking about, especially if you're the gardener and I'm hoping you don't cut down the baby magnolias - shrub-like though they may be.

Language and technology give us a lot to work with. Let's not pretend there aren't a wide array of options. The question is, what choices do we make, and why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately little of what you just wrote is true.

Humans are born male or female. Saying you’re male doesn’t transform your ovaries into testicles. One can “identify” as any number of things but that doesn’t mean you’re actually that thing.

Homosexuality shouldn’t be confused with gender identity. They are two separate things. Cisgender is a term that’s employed to rationalize the irrational. I don’t care how you identify that up to you, but to force feed contemporary psychobabble onto young girls by their teachers is nothing short of brainwashing them. Tell they to accept everyone at face value nothing more nothing less.

I guess you’ll tell us that employing drugs to suppress puberty is a rational act?

Most major professional associations of medical and mental health professionals uniequivocally support creating welcoming environments for trans-identified or nonbinary-idenitfied adolescents, especially in schools. Just search for the pro-trans platforms expressed by the American Psychological Assocation, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American Academy of Pediatrics, just to name a few.

I certainly hope you didn't slip down that slippery slope in your last sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Drugging children to correct normal behavior given that most children are no longer physically active is another manifestation of the insanity that passes for truth.

How about drugging adults to correct normal responses to abnormal situations? A life indoors, desk-bound drudgery, et al

Pop a pill?

How about drugging men to give them erections? Why not live with the consequences of their lifestyles, habits, choices?


It's all insane, my dear. The thing with the kids is, they know it. They're all through the looking glass. And they're calling our bluff.

[Anonymous]

A welcoming environment is fine but to stop referring to girls as girls is insane and employing drugs to suppress puberty is equally so.

Only women give birth.

[Anonymous]

By the way, the answer with regard to puberty blockers is, there are too many unknowns re: risks/benefits, and children lack capacity to weigh even known risks/benefits. But we know the potential risks can be high enough all around. So clinicians and parents much take a very deliberate, exploratory, compassionate, thorough approach.

All of which is very different from saying "they" instead of "she."

[Anonymous]

I mean, some people enjoy free climbing without ropes or safety nets.

Some people spend the best years of their lives working themselves to a nub in order to amass surplus wealth well beyond what is needed for survival.

Some people have surgery in order to create an exaggerated appearance of secondary sex characteristics, such as augmented breasts. Some people inject toxins into their faces in order to create a false impression of youth.

Some people take hormones in order to delay onset or diminish the appearance of secondary sex characteristics. Some people have surgery in order to appear "male" or "female."


Pick your poison. We're all insane. So? What's new?

[Anonymous]

Adults vs. Children.

That’s the difference.

And no we’re not all insane.

The suppression of truth is no different than it was in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A previous poster wrote in the middle of her post:

“What admin and faculty at girls' schools are careful not to do when addressing the entire student body is refer to them all as girls.”

Why is it that at boys’ schools they can address their students as boys or young men but you can’t address students as girls or young women at a girls’ school. Why do girls always have to be the ones to capitulate? Why do the girls who want to attend a girls only school have to attend a girls plus all inclusive school while boys get to attend a boys only school?

This is my concern. This isn’t happening at the boys schools. It seems to be something with a deep current of misogyny underlying it.