Can we spreadload FRL% across APS? Arlington / Education Newbie here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While not in favor, a ranked choice lottery would be fascinating. Our family is in the Cardinal district. Our top 4 choices would be Cardinal, Nottingham, Tuckahoe and Glebe. Wouldn't exactly get you the cross-county choices you're looking for.

My guess is your average Discovery parent would choose Discovery, Jamestown, Nottingham and Tuckahoe.

Other than probably a small proportion, APS families are going to choose the schools near their homes. OP, you may be new to this but this has been rehashed endless times over the last 15yrs. APS families overwhelmingly value proximity more than any other single factor in choosing their child's school. Best of luck as the latest to try and push this rock uphill.

This. A while ago I read an assessment of the impact on New Orleans schools when they went to an all lottery system after Katrina. By and large, families picked schools near their homes so it didn't do much to desegregate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It only helps the “central” schools - but they could redistrict and use ATS, Ashlawn, Key, Glebe, Barrett, and Long Branch and give them boundaries that run North/South.

There are probably walkability / bus issues - but it could be done so that only a few schools are all North or all South.

That would rip up the schools that have reasonably balanced student bodies and still leave the single digit FARMS schools untouched.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The community idea is so overblown by so many. The public school “community” is laughable for our family who came from private. I am sorry but no the public schools have neighbors who know each other but sense of community nope. So if your child is bussed to a different school the school your child attends will have a “community” and you become part of it if you want.

White parents just don’t want to have to say out loud that they don’t want their kids going to school with poor non white kids.

This is not true at the "poor" school in S. Arlington where I live. There are many immigrant communities (Ethiopians, Mongolians, etc) who are very tight, many living in the same apartment complexes. They walk home together, care for each others' kids after school, go shopping and share food, etc. There are a very few who are doing option schools but most don't want to move schools - they like their kids all going together to the same school and don't want to be split up.

My central (technically North) neighborhood has a big sense of community. Parents and kids walk to school together in the morning and afternoon, car pool for sports, do service projects for scouting in our neighborhood parks, play after school together, see each other at the pool in the summer, etc. If I had to arrange and then drive my child to play dates, he wouldn’t have many play dates. Having a neighborhood school we can walk to is really nice. If I didn’t have that, I would move to somewhere that did or send my kids to private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

This. interestingly enough -- no one really hand rings about the discrepancies about frl rates across middle schools or high schools.

As long as it's YHS or WL. If you aren't aware of the negative comments and attitudes about Wakefield, you're deaf dumb and blind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

I'm a PP and would be open to discussion at the HS level, but would hard object at the MS level. These kids already start school really early and parents probably struggle with getting them sufficient sleep during the week. If a lottery meant kids had to catch a bus across the county, in some cases they could literally be leaving their house at 6:30 or 6:45am. No thanks.

School start times can be changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When a group of S Arlington parents tried to raise this issue about 7-8 years ago they were shouted down by affordable housing advocates, school board members and S Arlington residents. Not N Arlington families.

They weren't just shouted down. They were called racist NIMBYs.

The only SB member who has really tried to make headway on this issue is RG. And he was not treated kindly by the chair at the time. People like to vaguely blame N. Arlington, but the entities listed above really do the work of maintaining the status quo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

I'm a PP and would be open to discussion at the HS level, but would hard object at the MS level. These kids already start school really early and parents probably struggle with getting them sufficient sleep during the week. If a lottery meant kids had to catch a bus across the county, in some cases they could literally be leaving their house at 6:30 or 6:45am. No thanks.

School start times can be changed.

Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to plan all the bus routes? School times are staggered in order to maximize runs-- they try to get 3 runs per bus in the morning and 3 in the afternoon because they have a shortage of drivers and also no place to stick more buses. It's not so easy to just "change start times."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

I'm a PP and would be open to discussion at the HS level, but would hard object at the MS level. These kids already start school really early and parents probably struggle with getting them sufficient sleep during the week. If a lottery meant kids had to catch a bus across the county, in some cases they could literally be leaving their house at 6:30 or 6:45am. No thanks.

School start times can be changed.

Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to plan all the bus routes? School times are staggered in order to maximize runs-- they try to get 3 runs per bus in the morning and 3 in the afternoon because they have a shortage of drivers and also no place to stick more buses. It's not so easy to just "change start times."

Assuming the prior poster is OP, this is someone who admits they are an APS newbie and is trying to simply explode the system and totally redo it for something that most people don't even want.

Theoretically could you blank slate the entire system, probably. Is it worth it sufficiently to all the stakeholders to go through the process? No.
APS has enough problems right now without even considering something like OP is proposing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The community idea is so overblown by so many. The public school “community” is laughable for our family who came from private. I am sorry but no the public schools have neighbors who know each other but sense of community nope. So if your child is bussed to a different school the school your child attends will have a “community” and you become part of it if you want.

White parents just don’t want to have to say out loud that they don’t want their kids going to school with poor non white kids.

This is not true at the "poor" school in S. Arlington where I live. There are many immigrant communities (Ethiopians, Mongolians, etc) who are very tight, many living in the same apartment complexes. They walk home together, care for each others' kids after school, go shopping and share food, etc. There are a very few who are doing option schools but most don't want to move schools - they like their kids all going together to the same school and don't want to be split up.

My central (technically North) neighborhood has a big sense of community. Parents and kids walk to school together in the morning and afternoon, car pool for sports, do service projects for scouting in our neighborhood parks, play after school together, see each other at the pool in the summer, etc. If I had to arrange and then drive my child to play dates, he wouldn’t have many play dates. Having a neighborhood school we can walk to is really nice. If I didn’t have that, I would move to somewhere that did or send my kids to private.

We're at an elementary school with very few buses and the kids walk everywhere. Playdates after school. Girl scout meetings. Soccer and basketball practices and pick up games. There's tons of community because we all are out and about together. There's literally an ant line of kids and parents trapsing by my house every morning and afternoon. It's a huge part of the school and neighborhood ethos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When a group of S Arlington parents tried to raise this issue about 7-8 years ago they were shouted down by affordable housing advocates, school board members and S Arlington residents. Not N Arlington families.

They weren't just shouted down. They were called racist NIMBYs.

The only SB member who has really tried to make headway on this issue is RG. And he was not treated kindly by the chair at the time. People like to vaguely blame N. Arlington, but the entities listed above really do the work of maintaining the status quo.

This x100 plus the comment about how it’s further fueled by SA parents who send their kids to option schools while acting holier than thou for living in the “south.” Some of them simultaneously profit from the affordable housing industry while they cripple the neighborhood schools. It’s gross. They are in cahoots with big money up north and well meaning but misplaced and confused S. Arl activists. Get out while you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

I'm a PP and would be open to discussion at the HS level, but would hard object at the MS level. These kids already start school really early and parents probably struggle with getting them sufficient sleep during the week. If a lottery meant kids had to catch a bus across the county, in some cases they could literally be leaving their house at 6:30 or 6:45am. No thanks.

School start times can be changed.

Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to plan all the bus routes? School times are staggered in order to maximize runs-- they try to get 3 runs per bus in the morning and 3 in the afternoon because they have a shortage of drivers and also no place to stick more buses. It's not so easy to just "change start times."

Assuming the prior poster is OP, this is someone who admits they are an APS newbie and is trying to simply explode the system and totally redo it for something that most people don't even want.

Theoretically could you blank slate the entire system, probably. Is it worth it sufficiently to all the stakeholders to go through the process? No.
APS has enough problems right now without even considering something like OP is proposing.

The PP is not OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

I'm a PP and would be open to discussion at the HS level, but would hard object at the MS level. These kids already start school really early and parents probably struggle with getting them sufficient sleep during the week. If a lottery meant kids had to catch a bus across the county, in some cases they could literally be leaving their house at 6:30 or 6:45am. No thanks.

School start times can be changed.

Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to plan all the bus routes? School times are staggered in order to maximize runs-- they try to get 3 runs per bus in the morning and 3 in the afternoon because they have a shortage of drivers and also no place to stick more buses. It's not so easy to just "change start times."

Yes, this exactly. Plus magnify that challenge exponentially if you are now talking about each school being a lottery, meaning buses running from every neighborhood to every school. They would probably have to shrink the school day down to 3 hours!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

I'm a PP and would be open to discussion at the HS level, but would hard object at the MS level. These kids already start school really early and parents probably struggle with getting them sufficient sleep during the week. If a lottery meant kids had to catch a bus across the county, in some cases they could literally be leaving their house at 6:30 or 6:45am. No thanks.

School start times can be changed.

Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to plan all the bus routes? School times are staggered in order to maximize runs-- they try to get 3 runs per bus in the morning and 3 in the afternoon because they have a shortage of drivers and also no place to stick more buses. It's not so easy to just "change start times."

Yes, this exactly. Plus magnify that challenge exponentially if you are now talking about each school being a lottery, meaning buses running from every neighborhood to every school. They would probably have to shrink the school day down to 3 hours!

Not to mention that very few people would want this lottery system to begin with. Change school start times and bus kids all around the county for a system that is enormously unpopular? I don’t see that happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When a group of S Arlington parents tried to raise this issue about 7-8 years ago they were shouted down by affordable housing advocates, school board members and S Arlington residents. Not N Arlington families.

They weren't just shouted down. They were called racist NIMBYs.

The only SB member who has really tried to make headway on this issue is RG. And he was not treated kindly by the chair at the time. People like to vaguely blame N. Arlington, but the entities listed above really do the work of maintaining the status quo.

RG helped to make some awful decisions with regards to zoning at that time. He is refusing to budge on the 15 kids per grade who should go to W&L with all of their neighbors and middle school but are zoned for Yorktown based on a crappy 2017 zoning decision. These kids will lose their community of friends they start high school. It's an island of zoning (Ashlawn- Kenmore).

Some neighbors have been trying to work with him unsuccessfully.

https://www.insidenova.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/letter-arlington-school-boundary-efforts-do-not-put-needs-of-students-first/article_371911ae-47ab-11ec-9877-f7d76a1cc327.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When a group of S Arlington parents tried to raise this issue about 7-8 years ago they were shouted down by affordable housing advocates, school board members and S Arlington residents. Not N Arlington families.

They weren't just shouted down. They were called racist NIMBYs.

The only SB member who has really tried to make headway on this issue is RG. And he was not treated kindly by the chair at the time. People like to vaguely blame N. Arlington, but the entities listed above really do the work of maintaining the status quo.

RG helped to make some awful decisions with regards to zoning at that time. He is refusing to budge on the 15 kids per grade who should go to W&L with all of their neighbors and middle school but are zoned for Yorktown based on a crappy 2017 zoning decision. These kids will lose their community of friends they start high school. It's an island of zoning (Ashlawn- Kenmore).

Some neighbors have been trying to work with him unsuccessfully.

https://www.insidenova.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/letter-arlington-school-boundary-efforts-do-not-put-needs-of-students-first/article_371911ae-47ab-11ec-9877-f7d76a1cc327.html

He's right not to give in to them and the SB would be right not to cave to them. Maybe it was stupid to move them a few years ago; but they shouldn't be moving them back in this process.

First of all, They are right to wait and see how enrollment plays out over the next year or so after the pandemic wave and look at all the high school boundaries together as a whole in another year or two. If they move that planning unit now, they won't be able to move it again in another year or so if that's what is needed.

Second of all, there are others in that planning unit who are perfectly happy to be at Yorktown. You won't hear them say so publicly at a SB meeting or via letters in the news or social media. People in Arlington long ago learned not to speak up against the complainers.

Third, this isn't about social isolation for the kids. This is about the parents wanting to be at WL. It's the parents telling their kids they're going to be socially isolated and miserable and propping them up in front of SB members. Are there kids who have a hard time? Sure. There are kids who have a hard time no matter how many classmates they move to middle school or to high school with. The severity of overcrowding at another school outweighs pacifying a handful of kids or their parents.