Can we spreadload FRL% across APS? Arlington / Education Newbie here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not going to happen. Everyone is ok with the status quo except for the people who bought SFHs zoned to Drew, Barcroft, Randolph, or Carlin Springs and didn't get into an option school.

This is the shortest, best answer to the original question. Arlington has always been dividing between a wealthy, mostly white North in which nearly every neighborhood had discriminatory real estate covenants, and a blue collar, more diverse South. The South is bifurcating. It’s both gentrifying but huge committed affordable housing complexes are concentrating poverty ina a handful of schools at their highest levels ever. These developments are mostly built in South Arlington because land is cheaper and lacks the organized resistance of North Arlington.

Another thing to know is that South Arlington is not half of the county, it’s about a third. Historically, it’s had almost no clout; for the first 50 years of its history, there weren’t many, if any board members from SA. That’s how we got all the good stuff, like the water treatment plant and no Metro. Even now that there are members from SA, they are elected by NA. That’s where the votes are. There’s just more people there and more of them are eligible to vote. And they are wealthier, so more likely to have resources and be engaged in politics. The south is less well off, has fewer resources, fewer people, and more ineligible voters (immigrants).

Which brings us back to the quoted comment. The local Dems DGAF about pursuing segregationist housing policy. They think they are on the side of the angels and anyway, they key to their staying in power is to not piss off the north Arlington majority. Showing any deference to SA on school demographics would do that. It’s been true forever, but the early 90s attempt to address the issue crashed and burned after a year of effort. Same old story: white north Arlington parents wouldn’t accept more poor kids. What emerged was the current grand bargain: the local dems build affordable housing, but only in SA. That lets them sleep at night and feel clean in their cozy NA enclaves. Option schools are offered to placate the SA middle class (and a significant number of actual NA liberals who don’t want to be hypocrites when it comes to diversity, classism, antiracism.) but, there’s not enough option school slots to totally suppress the issue, so it comes up now and then. That’s why a previous poster assumed you were SA and zoned to a high poverty school.

This is how White UMC liberals always behave and there’s no area in the DC region that displays Upper Caucasia values more than North Arlington. They also find other ways to repel Asian Americans.

Wut?

[Anonymous]

When a group of S Arlington parents tried to raise this issue about 7-8 years ago they were shouted down by affordable housing advocates, school board members and S Arlington residents. Not N Arlington families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is just a perennial thing. You can’t fight the developers and the affordable housing advocates in Arlington. They are the ones who perpetuate the segregation. They live in N Arlington. But it is just that small subset of people (I can name names) who are profiting from this who are really to blame. And the S Arlington county board members who get contributions from them. Don’t blame the generic N Arlington population. It’s far more insidious than rich wanting to stay away from the poor. It’s rich making money off segregation through affordable housing. Plain and simple.

Although there are also hard-core AH living in south Arlington. The difference is, they've opted their kids out of their 60%+ FRL neighborhood school. This is even more ideal because they escape the NIMBY accusation by living in SA and in such "diverse" neighborhoods AND they can genuinely deny the impact on education in the high FRL school because they haven't experienced it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow do you assume fARM a kids want to be bussed around and not attend their neighborhood schools. The easier way to fix the disparity between north and south Arlington school is to kill the option schools (other than immersion). It’s a brain/resources drain on the south arl schools. But, ironically, super woke Arlington loves school choice. In the meantime, the school board and other woke parents will push fake equity shit instead of doing the one thing that would make the biggest difference.

Have you ever taken a look at what the stats would be with no option schools?
It wouldn't make a dent in the FRL% at Carlin Springs or Randolph or even significantly at Barcroft. Carlin Springs and Randolph are not the schools with a lot of people fleeing to option programs.

Secondly, whether poor people want to be bused farther away or whether rich people want to be bussed farther away or whether rich people who purposely moved away from the poor people want to have more poor kids in school with their kids is IRRELEVANT. School leaders should be doing whatever they need to do to provide the best education for all of its students. Decades of research has demonstrated that economically diverse classrooms are better.

Rather than eliminating option schools, APS should do the opposite - and the only way to fix the issue: countywide ranked-choice admissions to all schools based on a formula that at least strives to narrow the disparities to reasonably acceptable levels. Why is this the most equitable solution?

1. People can't buy their school anymore and can't whine when they get redistricted to a different school.
2. It eliminates all boundary change processes and all the angst and time and resources and outrage and heartache and everything else that comes along with it.
3. EVERYONE has to rank their top 3 or 4 schools and EVERYONE has comparable chances of not getting their most preferred.
3. In districts that follow this system, the majority of people get their top choice school and the vast majority get either their first or second choice.
4. The admissions formula can be designed for balance between genders as well as economic means, walkability/proximity, and maintaining balanced enrollment across schools (which also prevents imbalanced overcrowding and the need for regular boundary adjustments....see #2 above.)
5. Resources are more evenly distributed and ALL students have more comparable opportunities and experiences and school performance is far more consistent across the entire district.
6. Throwing a bone to those who still have to feel they are superior: you don't have to bring poor people into rich neighborhoods or vice versa; so people can still have their exclusive residential enclaves and special neighborhood names they can cite when people ask where they live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When a group of S Arlington parents tried to raise this issue about 7-8 years ago they were shouted down by affordable housing advocates, school board members and S Arlington residents. Not N Arlington families.

They weren't just shouted down. They were called racist NIMBYs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow do you assume fARM a kids want to be bussed around and not attend their neighborhood schools. The easier way to fix the disparity between north and south Arlington school is to kill the option schools (other than immersion). It’s a brain/resources drain on the south arl schools. But, ironically, super woke Arlington loves school choice. In the meantime, the school board and other woke parents will push fake equity shit instead of doing the one thing that would make the biggest difference.

Have you ever taken a look at what the stats would be with no option schools?
It wouldn't make a dent in the FRL% at Carlin Springs or Randolph or even significantly at Barcroft. Carlin Springs and Randolph are not the schools with a lot of people fleeing to option programs.

Secondly, whether poor people want to be bused farther away or whether rich people want to be bussed farther away or whether rich people who purposely moved away from the poor people want to have more poor kids in school with their kids is IRRELEVANT. School leaders should be doing whatever they need to do to provide the best education for all of its students. Decades of research has demonstrated that economically diverse classrooms are better.

Rather than eliminating option schools, APS should do the opposite - and the only way to fix the issue: countywide ranked-choice admissions to all schools based on a formula that at least strives to narrow the disparities to reasonably acceptable levels. Why is this the most equitable solution?

1. People can't buy their school anymore and can't whine when they get redistricted to a different school.
2. It eliminates all boundary change processes and all the angst and time and resources and outrage and heartache and everything else that comes along with it.
3. EVERYONE has to rank their top 3 or 4 schools and EVERYONE has comparable chances of not getting their most preferred.
3. In districts that follow this system, the majority of people get their top choice school and the vast majority get either their first or second choice.
4. The admissions formula can be designed for balance between genders as well as economic means, walkability/proximity, and maintaining balanced enrollment across schools (which also prevents imbalanced overcrowding and the need for regular boundary adjustments....see #2 above.)
5. Resources are more evenly distributed and ALL students have more comparable opportunities and experiences and school performance is far more consistent across the entire district.
6. Throwing a bone to those who still have to feel they are superior: you don't have to bring poor people into rich neighborhoods or vice versa; so people can still have their exclusive residential enclaves and special neighborhood names they can cite when people ask where they live.

OP you need a hobby. I recommend reviewing the lottery outcome at SF schools.

[Anonymous]

While not in favor, a ranked choice lottery would be fascinating. Our family is in the Cardinal district. Our top 4 choices would be Cardinal, Nottingham, Tuckahoe and Glebe. Wouldn't exactly get you the cross-county choices you're looking for.

My guess is your average Discovery parent would choose Discovery, Jamestown, Nottingham and Tuckahoe.

Other than probably a small proportion, APS families are going to choose the schools near their homes. OP, you may be new to this but this has been rehashed endless times over the last 15yrs. APS families overwhelmingly value proximity more than any other single factor in choosing their child's school. Best of luck as the latest to try and push this rock uphill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow do you assume fARM a kids want to be bussed around and not attend their neighborhood schools. The easier way to fix the disparity between north and south Arlington school is to kill the option schools (other than immersion). It’s a brain/resources drain on the south arl schools. But, ironically, super woke Arlington loves school choice. In the meantime, the school board and other woke parents will push fake equity shit instead of doing the one thing that would make the biggest difference.

Have you ever taken a look at what the stats would be with no option schools?
It wouldn't make a dent in the FRL% at Carlin Springs or Randolph or even significantly at Barcroft. Carlin Springs and Randolph are not the schools with a lot of people fleeing to option programs.

Secondly, whether poor people want to be bused farther away or whether rich people want to be bussed farther away or whether rich people who purposely moved away from the poor people want to have more poor kids in school with their kids is IRRELEVANT. School leaders should be doing whatever they need to do to provide the best education for all of its students. Decades of research has demonstrated that economically diverse classrooms are better.

Rather than eliminating option schools, APS should do the opposite - and the only way to fix the issue: countywide ranked-choice admissions to all schools based on a formula that at least strives to narrow the disparities to reasonably acceptable levels. Why is this the most equitable solution?

1. People can't buy their school anymore and can't whine when they get redistricted to a different school.
2. It eliminates all boundary change processes and all the angst and time and resources and outrage and heartache and everything else that comes along with it.
3. EVERYONE has to rank their top 3 or 4 schools and EVERYONE has comparable chances of not getting their most preferred.
3. In districts that follow this system, the majority of people get their top choice school and the vast majority get either their first or second choice.
4. The admissions formula can be designed for balance between genders as well as economic means, walkability/proximity, and maintaining balanced enrollment across schools (which also prevents imbalanced overcrowding and the need for regular boundary adjustments....see #2 above.)
5. Resources are more evenly distributed and ALL students have more comparable opportunities and experiences and school performance is far more consistent across the entire district.
6. Throwing a bone to those who still have to feel they are superior: you don't have to bring poor people into rich neighborhoods or vice versa; so people can still have their exclusive residential enclaves and special neighborhood names they can cite when people ask where they live.

That’s a nice idea, but it won’t be happening. It’s impossible to accomplish what you would consider reasonably acceptable balance without moving a large number of kids from the far north to far south and vice-versa. Anyone who can understand maps and math knows this. It’s a nonstarter in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

This. interestingly enough -- no one really hand rings about the discrepancies about frl rates across middle schools or high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

I'm a PP and would be open to discussion at the HS level, but would hard object at the MS level. These kids already start school really early and parents probably struggle with getting them sufficient sleep during the week. If a lottery meant kids had to catch a bus across the county, in some cases they could literally be leaving their house at 6:30 or 6:45am. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

You are hilarious. So the lottery would work to allow some Wakefield parents to send kinds to supersized WL or far far Yorktown, you know no one would send their kids to Wakefield — look how much Arlington Forest fought when they were zoned from WL to Wakefield in a proposal. Was that the first colored T-shirt protest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

This. interestingly enough -- no one really hand rings about the discrepancies about frl rates across middle schools or high schools.

Because few parents would see a benefit to ripping a child from all their friends for some theoretical benefit of diversity, on top of early and long commutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lotteries at elementary are a non-starter but at the middle and high school level could make alot more sense.

This. interestingly enough -- no one really hand rings about the discrepancies about frl rates across middle schools or high schools.

Two likely reasons for that:

1. The highest FRL schools for middle (Kenmore at 52%) and high school (Wakefield at 41%) are not as high as the highest elementary schools (Carlin Springs 81%, Barcroft 62%, Barrett 61%, Drew 61%, and Randolph 73%).
2. Tracking in the higher grades means that you don't see one teacher trying to manage and teach a class that has a large spectrum of abilities at the same time.

[Anonymous]

It only helps the “central” schools - but they could redistrict and use ATS, Ashlawn, Key, Glebe, Barrett, and Long Branch and give them boundaries that run North/South.

There are probably walkability / bus issues - but it could be done so that only a few schools are all North or all South.