What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds just like a really poorly planned freak accident. Like that D list actress who died swimming off a pontoon last year. A single mom shouldn't be operating a boat with just her and kid and these people should not have been hiking 8 plus miles in extreme heat. How cruel to the dog and child.

But it's OK for a single dad?

WTAF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I think PP has nailed it. This is more than just a hike that went awry. It was also poorly conceived and doesn’t make sense even if everything had gone right. Personally I’m more curious about the conception of the hike than what actually killed them, though we may never really know.

What was poorly conceived? You don't know their plans for that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I completely agree with you. The Sheriff updated the timeline on August 26th and you'll notice that they removed the mention of the family "completing most of an 8.5 mile hike" from the timeline. https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

They must be reconsidering evidence that led them to make the assertion in the first place. It really does not make sense that this family purposefully set out at almost 8a on an extremely hot day with a dog and baby to go for an 8.5 mile hike with elevation and no shade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I think PP has nailed it. This is more than just a hike that went awry. It was also poorly conceived and doesn’t make sense even if everything had gone right. Personally I’m more curious about the conception of the hike than what actually killed them, though we may never really know.

+1. Baffling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I completely agree with you. The Sheriff updated the timeline on August 26th and you'll notice that they removed the mention of the family "completing most of an 8.5 mile hike" from the timeline. https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

They must be reconsidering evidence that led them to make the assertion in the first place. It really does not make sense that this family purposefully set out at almost 8a on an extremely hot day with a dog and baby to go for an 8.5 mile hike with elevation and no shade.

So the sheriff is wrong about the 8 mile hike, but definitely not about an unknown hazard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I completely agree with you. The Sheriff updated the timeline on August 26th and you'll notice that they removed the mention of the family "completing most of an 8.5 mile hike" from the timeline. https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

They must be reconsidering evidence that led them to make the assertion in the first place. It really does not make sense that this family purposefully set out at almost 8a on an extremely hot day with a dog and baby to go for an 8.5 mile hike with elevation and no shade.

Good, that’s the part that makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

I keep coming back here hoping someone will have posted the result of the investigation and this thread keeps being speculation and finger-pointing. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep coming back here hoping someone will have posted the result of the investigation and this thread keeps being speculation and finger-pointing. Sigh.

Same. It's California, do an update will probably be late in the day here. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I completely agree with you. The Sheriff updated the timeline on August 26th and you'll notice that they removed the mention of the family "completing most of an 8.5 mile hike" from the timeline. https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

They must be reconsidering evidence that led them to make the assertion in the first place. It really does not make sense that this family purposefully set out at almost 8a on an extremely hot day with a dog and baby to go for an 8.5 mile hike with elevation and no shade.

Gee - it's almost like we should wait to hear facts before saying nasty things about these dead people.

[Anonymous]

They were reported missing at 11pm on Monday night, the truck was found, and they were found around 11 am on Tuesday morning. Not Wednesday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I completely agree with you. The Sheriff updated the timeline on August 26th and you'll notice that they removed the mention of the family "completing most of an 8.5 mile hike" from the timeline. https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

They must be reconsidering evidence that led them to make the assertion in the first place. It really does not make sense that this family purposefully set out at almost 8a on an extremely hot day with a dog and baby to go for an 8.5 mile hike with elevation and no shade.

Good, that’s the part that makes no sense.

So is it possible the family started their hike on the Savage Lundy Trail rather than the Hike Cove Trail? It could mean they only had hiked 1.5 miles unless maybe they went down to the river and then on the way back to their car?

[Anonymous]

Toxic algae info
https://mywaterquality.ca.gov/habs/resources/benthic_education.html

[Anonymous]

Maybe they took recreational drugs and got disoriented or lost.

[Anonymous]

Any photos of what the river looks like in relation to the trail? Seems like a no brainer to jump in if you were THAT overheated. Or maybe it looks toxic, green and nasty?

https://sierranewsonline.com/hiking-on-the-savage-lundy-trail/
Note this article was written before the 2018 fire but it does have some good pictures of the river at the bottom of the trail.

[Anonymous]

So is it possible the family started their hike on the Savage Lundy Trail rather than the Hike Cove Trail? It could mean they only had hiked 1.5 miles unless maybe they went down to the river and then on the way back to their car?

Possibly. LE may have data from his phone, watches, a witness or something else that may allow them to clarify/confirm the route taken and a better sense of the time they started.