What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I think PP has nailed it. This is more than just a hike that went awry. It was also poorly conceived and doesn’t make sense even if everything had gone right. Personally I’m more curious about the conception of the hike than what actually killed them, though we may never really know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I think PP has nailed it. This is more than just a hike that went awry. It was also poorly conceived and doesn’t make sense even if everything had gone right. Personally I’m more curious about the conception of the hike than what actually killed them, though we may never really know.

If the unknown hazards hadn't killed them, this would have been a regular, fun family outing. Nothing unusual or horrific.

[Anonymous]

The trail goes along the river a good part of the way. You would think, if they were overheating, they could still cool off in the river (even with toxic algae). I'd rather wade in cool algae water than die of heat stroke. The algae wouldn't kill you right away. You could drive home and wash off pretty quickly. They didn't get very far from the river along the trail before dying. Seems odd. Also why would they go in that direction leaving the switchbacks at the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The trail goes along the river a good part of the way. You would think, if they were overheating, they could still cool off in the river (even with toxic algae). I'd rather wade in cool algae water than die of heat stroke. The algae wouldn't kill you right away. You could drive home and wash off pretty quickly. They didn't get very far from the river along the trail before dying. Seems odd. Also why would they go in that direction leaving the switchbacks at the end.

Toxic algae can be a lot more toxic than you seem to be thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trail goes along the river a good part of the way. You would think, if they were overheating, they could still cool off in the river (even with toxic algae). I'd rather wade in cool algae water than die of heat stroke. The algae wouldn't kill you right away. You could drive home and wash off pretty quickly. They didn't get very far from the river along the trail before dying. Seems odd. Also why would they go in that direction leaving the switchbacks at the end.

Toxic algae can be a lot more toxic than you seem to be thinking.

Skin contact doesn't result in death. There are no known cases of this.

[Anonymous]

8 plus miles is obscenely far for a "hike" with a dog and baby even in perfectly mild 55 to 60 degree temps. They are frankly idiots if a hike that far was their original intent.

[Anonymous]

Any photos of what the river looks like in relation to the trail? Seems like a no brainer to jump in if you were THAT overheated. Or maybe it looks toxic, green and nasty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

That was honestly not my intention. This criticism is directed at the sheriff's department. Because all three of these things cannot be true:

1. The family set off for a hike at approximately 8:00 in the morning, when temperatures were already exceeding 90 degrees.
2. The family completed most of an 8.5 mile hike.
3. The family was "well-prepared" for this hike.

I think it is entirely possible that there was some kind of accident, that they took the wrong trail by mistake, that the dog took off and they chased it, that they looked at an incorrect weather forecast, etc.... Even that there may have been some kind of foul play involving a third party. But I strongly take issue with the description "well prepared" to describe their readiness to take on an 8.5 mile hike, because there is NOTHING you can do to make a dog and a baby "well prepared" for an 8.5 mile hike in that heat.

I think PP has nailed it. This is more than just a hike that went awry. It was also poorly conceived and doesn’t make sense even if everything had gone right. Personally I’m more curious about the conception of the hike than what actually killed them, though we may never really know.

If the unknown hazards hadn't killed them, this would have been a regular, fun family outing. Nothing unusual or horrific.

Nobody with a brain takes a baby and dog on an 8.5 mile hike, period, let alone in 100 degree desert heat.

[Anonymous]

This shows they actually were not near the river/water for at least the last ~ 1 mile of the route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trail goes along the river a good part of the way. You would think, if they were overheating, they could still cool off in the river (even with toxic algae). I'd rather wade in cool algae water than die of heat stroke. The algae wouldn't kill you right away. You could drive home and wash off pretty quickly. They didn't get very far from the river along the trail before dying. Seems odd. Also why would they go in that direction leaving the switchbacks at the end.

Toxic algae can be a lot more toxic than you seem to be thinking.

Skin contact doesn't result in death. There are no known cases of this.

Yes, some toxic algae can be fatal. I don't know if the particular algae here is, but some are.

I don't know what the unknown hazards are that killed the family. But something did.

[Anonymous]

The river is full of green algae and dead fish, photos come up if you Google Merced River 2021 algae.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trail goes along the river a good part of the way. You would think, if they were overheating, they could still cool off in the river (even with toxic algae). I'd rather wade in cool algae water than die of heat stroke. The algae wouldn't kill you right away. You could drive home and wash off pretty quickly. They didn't get very far from the river along the trail before dying. Seems odd. Also why would they go in that direction leaving the switchbacks at the end.

Toxic algae can be a lot more toxic than you seem to be thinking.

Skin contact doesn't result in death. There are no known cases of this.

Yes, some toxic algae can be fatal. I don't know if the particular algae here is, but some are.

I don't know what the unknown hazards are that killed the family. But something did.

Can you post the article about skin contact with algae killing people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's really sad is his work should have called 911 on Monday morning. Maybe one or both of them would have been found alive if the police were searching Monday morning and afternoon? The police didn't find their bodies until Wednesday morning.

"The family was reported missing at about 11 pm on August 16, after their daughter’s nanny found that they had not returned home and friends and work colleagues could not contact them. John was supposed to work Monday and never showed up and that raised more concerns."

Not that it's that relevant, but they were found on Tuesday.

No, their truck was found Tuesday evening. They were found Wednesday morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's really sad is his work should have called 911 on Monday morning. Maybe one or both of them would have been found alive if the police were searching Monday morning and afternoon? The police didn't find their bodies until Wednesday morning.

"The family was reported missing at about 11 pm on August 16, after their daughter’s nanny found that they had not returned home and friends and work colleagues could not contact them. John was supposed to work Monday and never showed up and that raised more concerns."

Not that it's that relevant, but they were found on Tuesday.

No, their truck was found Tuesday evening. They were found Wednesday morning.

They were found at 1 am. That's both Tuesday evening and Wednesday morning.