FCPS Skyview Boundary Revised Scenario 1 / 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The split feeder at Franklin Middle School is going to be mostly Oakton now (Crossfield, Waples Mill, most of Navy) while only Lees Corner and the small western portion of Navy will attend Chantilly. (Assuming Brookfield will be at Rocky Run and Oak Hill will be at Carson.)

Wouldn't it make sense for Navy and Lees Corner students to have their AAP center at Rocky Run instead of Rachel Carson? Is that a possibility in FCPS to have your middle school feed to different centers depending on the high school?

The original scenario 2 had portions of Navy attending Rocky Run which actually made sense to me but then it vanished in the next and now final scenario. My child will be out of Franklin when the changes take place, but I do feel bad for the upcoming Lees Corner and Navy Chantilly families who will now be vastly outnumbered at Franklin. They will not be able to make any new friends going to Chantilly HS at Franklin and it’s already tough for the Navy Chantilly HS kids to be separated from their Navy Oakton HS peers. But hey, at least Crossfield gets to remain whole and they all feed into Oakton!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If they had done this properly and stuck to objective standards, this could have been settled months ago. And, with a lot less angst.

In the past, SB members were always non-committal to neighborhoods, while at least pretending to listen. I never recall an earlier superintendent making promises or even getting involved. Staff was involved, but we never saw the superintendents.

It was mostly SB members doing the wheeling and dealing, but they were careful not to make promises.

Reid promised Walney Oaks. Somehow, they were taken totally out of the equation. And, those final scenarios did not include most of Crossfield.

I don't see them changing it now, but the School Board could if they wanted to do so. I don't think they will.

I still wonder if Kyle McDaniel and Melanie Meren will join together at the last minute to strike some sort of deal with everyone else to swap Crossfield and Fox Mill. They both seem pretty adamant about putting Crossfield at Skyview and keeping Fox Mill out.

I doubt it.

Meren wants to keep Fox Mill at SLHS but she will never stand up to RIO. In fact she seems very close to some of RIO moms.

McDaniel wanted to move Crossfield to Skyview. His concern was travel to Oakton and split feeder pattern at Carson. I think he initally suppoted moving both Crossfield and Fox Mill to Skyview although it seems he got enough beatings from RIO moms.

Meren and McDaniel's postions are not entirely aligned and I don't think they will broker a deal. Even if they did, they may get outvoted.

+1. Both McDaniel and Meren know that Fox Mill is a very tight-knit community with parents who are vocal and actively engaged. Despite what gets said on this board, they generally have a good relationship with the Fox Mill ES community.

They don’t gain much by upsetting a community that has been willing to work with them. It would only create a situation where a large group of engaged parents becomes fully opposed to them.

Meren has a good relationship with the parents that want to stay at SLHS but has not engaged with the parents who want to move. The only FB comments she replies to are the ones that share her feelings. There are "I hear you" repliess on the keep SLHS whole posts and silence on the posts saying they are happy to be moving and why. Some of the people who emailed and posted on her FB page have found that they were removed from her mailing list. FMES PTA had asked to meet with Meren regarding the boundary changes and Skyview, she cancelled a meeting in November and I don't think she every rescheduled it. At one meeting in December she was asked about the Western HS and she said that the only people she know who wanted to move were families with nuero divergent kids.

No offense but there are a decent number of FMES parents who are hoping that there is someone decent to vote for that isn't Meren. She has lost a good number of votes with how she has handled this. She can have a different opinion, there are plenty of good reasons for her to disagree with me, but she has not engaged in conversation with anyone who disagrees with her in the neighborhood. It sounds like she has not much to engage in conversation with the members of the School Board either.

She hosted numerous open community meetings rather than trying to meet w/ individual PTAs. I'm not sure I would fault her for that - it's not like she didn't show up, in-person, and make herself available. She also attended all the Western Boundary meetings and engaged.

She agreed to a meeting and then cancelled and then chose not to meet again. There is a difference meeting with a large group of people vs a specific meeting to discuss a schools issues. She did meet with the SLHS PTA though.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just used Folkstone/West Ox as a starting point. Almost 10 miles to Oakton and less than 3 to Carson.
Using Crossfield as the starting point is bogus. No one going to Carson lives that far.

And, the time--using express lanes is 15 minutes.
Eight minutes to Carson.

And, most of the population lives closer to Carson than that intersection.

He must be getting pushback from some Crossfield people now.

This tells me that Meren is putting pressure on him now. She's had a year to do that.

LOL. No.

Meren doesn't want to confront RIO moms nor she is in a position to put pressure on McDaniel.

McDaniel's email is basically his excuse/rationalization of changing his earlier position. The final scenario is his baby. He is not going to materially change it.

If anything mcdaniel just shut off any attempt Meren might make to swap Crossfield for Fox mill into Skyview, or any attempt to move Fox mill out of going to Skyview at all.

Exactly.

This is too obvious. McDaniel has zero reason to listen to Meren.

And it's not like Meren has any alternative proposal. She never said Crossfield should be moved to Skyview.

All she wanted to do was slow down the process and complain, because she doesn’t know how to protect SLHS without angering the RIO moms at the same time.

The RIO moms are not Meren's constituents. There may be a couple of them, but almost all of Crossfield/Oakton is in Sully---not Hunter Mill. There could be a handful, but not enough to sway a Hunter Mill election.

That's not true. There is a significant portion of Crossfield that is in Hunter Mill. I'd say at least 25%

Not in population.

Do you have data to support this assertion?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Good evening:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the ongoing Skyview High School boundary review process, specifically the impact to Crossfield Elementary School.

Since the outset of this conversation last fall, I raised the transportation and capacity challenges associated with Crossfield ES remaining at Oakton HS. As I have stated several times, it's not the fault of the western communities that the boundary lines are such that kids have to ride a school bus forty-five minutes to an hour one way to get to their base school; Oakton HS in this case. Additionally, I am concerned about the housing development approved in the central Oakton corridor that will potentially exacerbate the capacity challenges at Oakton HS. Today, Oakton HS is at 103% capacity with around 2,000 housing units approved and awaiting construction.

Over the last few months, I have worked with transportation and facilities staff to analyze these issues in depth to help me determine whether Crossfield ES should remain at Oakton HS, or be sent to Skyview HS. Thanks to our very capable transportation staff and the analysis they provided me, the average bussing times are:

Crossfield ES to Oakton HS: 45 minutes
Crossfield ES to Carson MS: 47 minutes

Although there are no times available for a hypothetical route from Crossfield ES to Skyview HS, Carson MS is next door and provides a good benchmark for the data. This is to say, that sending Crossfield ES to Skyview HS will not result in any measurable transportation efficiencies.

In that time, another key detail has surfaced which also impacts my decision making process: Skyview HS does not have the capacity available to absorb both Crossfield ES and Fox Mill ES. Based on the feedback from the Fox Mill ES community, I believe Fox Mill ES should be sent to Skyview HS. It is also worth noting that within the South Lakes HS pyramid, there are over 7,000 housing units proposed or approved which would yield significantly more students into South Lakes HS than the housing units proposed or approved for Oakton HS.

The final scenario generated by the Superintendent and her staff indicates that Crossfield ES be sent to Franklin MS and remain at Oakton HS. Based on the available transportation and capacity data, as well as the community feedback, my expectation is that Crossfield ES remain at Oakton HS, while also being aligned to Franklin MS.

Crossfield to Carson takes 47 minutes???? Did they bike it??

No that's what it takes for my neighborhood which is 45 min, but as i said it's 35 to oakton.

The conversation here always focused on Franklin Farm and not neighborhoods closest to Crossfield which are right next to non Navy Island neighborhoods and across from neighborhoods zoned to Madison.

NO one in Crossfield area is closer to Oakton in milieage or time than to Skyview. Most of them are less than 10 minutes most from Skyview.

That’s not the conclusion FCPS’ transport team reached based on data.

Just because it was ostensibly "based on data" doesn't guarantee the analysis and/or conclusions are correct. People (esp. these unsophisticated SB members and FCPS staff) conduct faulty analysis all the time. And that bus data is clearly inaccurate.

I question less the accuracy of the data and more whether it’s an apt comparison. Middle school is two grades while high school is four. That means there’s a denser population of students to fill a bus more quickly (yes, many high schoolers can drive, but how many formally opt out of bus services for calculating routes?) Second, there are the AAP routes for Navy and Waples Mill that are commingled with Crossfield routes. The Waples Mill buses would wildly inflate the average Crossfield bus times. They should be running comprehensive bus routes for the various scenarios, but nobody seems to ever want to use the software that the transportation team invested in.

Yes, AND, Oakton buses also pickup Crossfield, Navy, & Waples students on a single route. My child still arrives at Oakton in less time than they even did at Carson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they had done this properly and stuck to objective standards, this could have been settled months ago. And, with a lot less angst.

In the past, SB members were always non-committal to neighborhoods, while at least pretending to listen. I never recall an earlier superintendent making promises or even getting involved. Staff was involved, but we never saw the superintendents.

It was mostly SB members doing the wheeling and dealing, but they were careful not to make promises.

Reid promised Walney Oaks. Somehow, they were taken totally out of the equation. And, those final scenarios did not include most of Crossfield.

I don't see them changing it now, but the School Board could if they wanted to do so. I don't think they will.

I still wonder if Kyle McDaniel and Melanie Meren will join together at the last minute to strike some sort of deal with everyone else to swap Crossfield and Fox Mill. They both seem pretty adamant about putting Crossfield at Skyview and keeping Fox Mill out.

I doubt it.

Meren wants to keep Fox Mill at SLHS but she will never stand up to RIO. In fact she seems very close to some of RIO moms.

McDaniel wanted to move Crossfield to Skyview. His concern was travel to Oakton and split feeder pattern at Carson. I think he initally suppoted moving both Crossfield and Fox Mill to Skyview although it seems he got enough beatings from RIO moms.

Meren and McDaniel's postions are not entirely aligned and I don't think they will broker a deal. Even if they did, they may get outvoted.

+1. Both McDaniel and Meren know that Fox Mill is a very tight-knit community with parents who are vocal and actively engaged. Despite what gets said on this board, they generally have a good relationship with the Fox Mill ES community.

They don’t gain much by upsetting a community that has been willing to work with them. It would only create a situation where a large group of engaged parents becomes fully opposed to them.

Meren has a good relationship with the parents that want to stay at SLHS but has not engaged with the parents who want to move. The only FB comments she replies to are the ones that share her feelings. There are "I hear you" repliess on the keep SLHS whole posts and silence on the posts saying they are happy to be moving and why. Some of the people who emailed and posted on her FB page have found that they were removed from her mailing list. FMES PTA had asked to meet with Meren regarding the boundary changes and Skyview, she cancelled a meeting in November and I don't think she every rescheduled it. At one meeting in December she was asked about the Western HS and she said that the only people she know who wanted to move were families with nuero divergent kids.

No offense but there are a decent number of FMES parents who are hoping that there is someone decent to vote for that isn't Meren. She has lost a good number of votes with how she has handled this. She can have a different opinion, there are plenty of good reasons for her to disagree with me, but she has not engaged in conversation with anyone who disagrees with her in the neighborhood. It sounds like she has not much to engage in conversation with the members of the School Board either.

She hosted numerous open community meetings rather than trying to meet w/ individual PTAs. I'm not sure I would fault her for that - it's not like she didn't show up, in-person, and make herself available. She also attended all the Western Boundary meetings and engaged.

AFAIK, Seema Dixit is in hiding. She doesn't reply to emails or phone calls and doesn't meet with any of the PTAs.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just used Folkstone/West Ox as a starting point. Almost 10 miles to Oakton and less than 3 to Carson.
Using Crossfield as the starting point is bogus. No one going to Carson lives that far.

And, the time--using express lanes is 15 minutes.
Eight minutes to Carson.

And, most of the population lives closer to Carson than that intersection.

He must be getting pushback from some Crossfield people now.

This tells me that Meren is putting pressure on him now. She's had a year to do that.

You realize buses follow a route... They go to different neighborhoods both towards and away from the assigned school and even backtrack.

Folkstone is slightly more than 6 miles from Oakton and 4 from Carson. Where are you getting your distances from?

Google maps right now has over 7 miles to Oakton a d 3.9 to Carson. 16 vs 12 min in car, not bus from the intersection of Folkstone and Fox Mill. That is just about the closest Crossfield spot to Oakton.. most of Crossfield is much, much closer to Carson. But you know that.

Next, you and McDaniel might consider distance to South Lakes.

South Lakes needs the extra capacity for future growth. Let’s make arguments based on facts and not emotion.

Isn't there more housing going up in Oakton then South Lakes area?

No.
https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demographics/sites/demographics/files/Assets/demographicreports/fullrpt.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good evening:

Thank you for contacting me regarding the ongoing Skyview High School boundary review process, specifically the impact to Crossfield Elementary School.

Since the outset of this conversation last fall, I raised the transportation and capacity challenges associated with Crossfield ES remaining at Oakton HS. As I have stated several times, it's not the fault of the western communities that the boundary lines are such that kids have to ride a school bus forty-five minutes to an hour one way to get to their base school; Oakton HS in this case. Additionally, I am concerned about the housing development approved in the central Oakton corridor that will potentially exacerbate the capacity challenges at Oakton HS. Today, Oakton HS is at 103% capacity with around 2,000 housing units approved and awaiting construction.

Over the last few months, I have worked with transportation and facilities staff to analyze these issues in depth to help me determine whether Crossfield ES should remain at Oakton HS, or be sent to Skyview HS. Thanks to our very capable transportation staff and the analysis they provided me, the average bussing times are:

Crossfield ES to Oakton HS: 45 minutes
Crossfield ES to Carson MS: 47 minutes

Although there are no times available for a hypothetical route from Crossfield ES to Skyview HS, Carson MS is next door and provides a good benchmark for the data. This is to say, that sending Crossfield ES to Skyview HS will not result in any measurable transportation efficiencies.

In that time, another key detail has surfaced which also impacts my decision making process: Skyview HS does not have the capacity available to absorb both Crossfield ES and Fox Mill ES. Based on the feedback from the Fox Mill ES community, I believe Fox Mill ES should be sent to Skyview HS. It is also worth noting that within the South Lakes HS pyramid, there are over 7,000 housing units proposed or approved which would yield significantly more students into South Lakes HS than the housing units proposed or approved for Oakton HS.

The final scenario generated by the Superintendent and her staff indicates that Crossfield ES be sent to Franklin MS and remain at Oakton HS. Based on the available transportation and capacity data, as well as the community feedback, my expectation is that Crossfield ES remain at Oakton HS, while also being aligned to Franklin MS.

Crossfield to Carson takes 47 minutes???? Did they bike it??

No that's what it takes for my neighborhood which is 45 min, but as i said it's 35 to oakton.

The conversation here always focused on Franklin Farm and not neighborhoods closest to Crossfield which are right next to non Navy Island neighborhoods and across from neighborhoods zoned to Madison.

NO one in Crossfield area is closer to Oakton in milieage or time than to Skyview. Most of them are less than 10 minutes most from Skyview.

That’s not the conclusion FCPS’ transport team reached based on data.

Just because it was ostensibly "based on data" doesn't guarantee the analysis and/or conclusions are correct. People (esp. these unsophisticated SB members and FCPS staff) conduct faulty analysis all the time. And that bus data is clearly inaccurate.

I question less the accuracy of the data and more whether it’s an apt comparison. Middle school is two grades while high school is four. That means there’s a denser population of students to fill a bus more quickly (yes, many high schoolers can drive, but how many formally opt out of bus services for calculating routes?) Second, there are the AAP routes for Navy and Waples Mill that are commingled with Crossfield routes. The Waples Mill buses would wildly inflate the average Crossfield bus times. They should be running comprehensive bus routes for the various scenarios, but nobody seems to ever want to use the software that the transportation team invested in.

Yes, AND, Oakton buses also pickup Crossfield, Navy, & Waples students on a single route. My child still arrives at Oakton in less time than they even did at Carson.

Either you or your child are driving way too fast or you are the last bus stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if already posted, but what’s the projected FARMS rate at Skyview?

It’ll be somewhere between Carson’s existing FARM rate (~20%) and Westfield’s rate (~30%)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just used Folkstone/West Ox as a starting point. Almost 10 miles to Oakton and less than 3 to Carson.
Using Crossfield as the starting point is bogus. No one going to Carson lives that far.

And, the time--using express lanes is 15 minutes.
Eight minutes to Carson.

And, most of the population lives closer to Carson than that intersection.

He must be getting pushback from some Crossfield people now.

This tells me that Meren is putting pressure on him now. She's had a year to do that.

Really - what MS do you think those students across from Crossfield attend? And why do you think that you know better than their actual experience?
From my home near Crossfield my child's Carson bus ride was always significantly longer than their current ride to Oakton.

I have a feeling that many of the complainers about crossfield are entirely unfamiliar with the area or only know about the Franklin farm side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just used Folkstone/West Ox as a starting point. Almost 10 miles to Oakton and less than 3 to Carson.
Using Crossfield as the starting point is bogus. No one going to Carson lives that far.

And, the time--using express lanes is 15 minutes.
Eight minutes to Carson.

And, most of the population lives closer to Carson than that intersection.

He must be getting pushback from some Crossfield people now.

This tells me that Meren is putting pressure on him now. She's had a year to do that.

Really - what MS do you think those students across from Crossfield attend? And why do you think that you know better than their actual experience?
From my home near Crossfield my child's Carson bus ride was always significantly longer than their current ride to Oakton.

I have a feeling that many of the complainers about crossfield are entirely unfamiliar with the area or only know about the Franklin farm side.

Very familiar with the area. Drive West Ox and Reston Parkway regularly. Drive Folkstone from time to time.

So, the vast majority of the Crossfield Oakton kids live between Fairfax County Parkway and West Ox Rd.

So, because a handful of the Crossfield families claim they are closer to Oakton (they are not, you can verify that by driving it or even looking at a map) they claim they should go to Oakton.

All are closer to Carson than to Oakton. But, you know that. Time wise and mileage.

If you live close to Crossfield, your kids should be going to South Lakes along with Fox Mill Woods.

[Anonymous]

What options are available right now for concerned Westfield parents/ community members? The comments are turned off. Seema is not responding to emails. What else can be done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The split feeder at Franklin Middle School is going to be mostly Oakton now (Crossfield, Waples Mill, most of Navy) while only Lees Corner and the small western portion of Navy will attend Chantilly. (Assuming Brookfield will be at Rocky Run and Oak Hill will be at Carson.)

Wouldn't it make sense for Navy and Lees Corner students to have their AAP center at Rocky Run instead of Rachel Carson? Is that a possibility in FCPS to have your middle school feed to different centers depending on the high school?

I think that with phasing out AAP centers (i.e. putting them in all middle schools), that they are unlikely to shift any current boundaries. But, your suggestion does make sense.

I wonder if FCPS might decide to go ahead and make an AAP center at Franklin sooner rather than later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What options are available right now for concerned Westfield parents/ community members? The comments are turned off. Seema is not responding to emails. What else can be done?

Go to the meeting tonight in person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What options are available right now for concerned Westfield parents/ community members? The comments are turned off. Seema is not responding to emails. What else can be done?

Go to the meeting tonight in person.

Do not disparage other people, but point out that it is not fair to send those Chantilly kids who live off 50 away from their close school. Remember Walney Oaks is exactly halfway. Why were they not moved to Westfield along with the neighborhood directly across Walney Rd from them? Ask respectfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What options are available right now for concerned Westfield parents/ community members? The comments are turned off. Seema is not responding to emails. What else can be done?

Go to the meeting tonight in person.

Do not disparage other people, but point out that it is not fair to send those Chantilly kids who live off 50 away from their close school. Remember Walney Oaks is exactly halfway. Why were they not moved to Westfield along with the neighborhood directly across Walney Rd from them? Ask respectfully.

You can also point out that the final scenario does not just leave Westfield a percentage point or two below the minimum utilization goal of 85%, but instead a full 13% below.