What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

New poster.

re: the bold: You're not the first person here to say "but the mom should have taken the baby with her if she was going for help --I would have taken the baby/any mom would never leave her baby behind/ I think she would have taken the baby" etc. etc.

A person who has been in the broiling sun and is possibly in a stage of heat stroke/exhaustion, and is frantic with worry, is not necessarily going to make logical or safe choices and decisions.

Those posting how they would of course gone all mama bear and taken that baby are posting from their air-conditioned homes, with full benefit of hydration and perfect hindsight. It's just silly for people to post about how they would have, or she should have, taken the baby rather than leaving her with the father. We cannot know what we might do or not do with our brains fried by intense heat at a minimum, and possibly with the effects of inhalation or ingestion of something toxic like gases in the area.

And don't forget the mom has had a traumatic brain Injury. It was bad enough she had to leave her career.

What? Where did you read about a traumatic brain injury? I know a “debilitating health condition” factored into her leaving a tech job in 2018, but no mention of what that was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

^ here is a trail map: https://www.yosemitehikes.com/not-yosemite/hite-cove/trail-map.htm
Sounds like it is 9 miles roundtrip. I don't think we know whether they were planning on hiking the whole thing though.

That's the right general area, but the highlighted trail is not the one they were hiking. There is a separate "hites cove road" trail that makes a loop with the Savage Lundy trail, which is where they were found. It's a bit south of the trail highlighted here.

[Anonymous]

Was there really zero shade? All the trees are dead? Wouldn't the mountains on which ever side act as shade at least half the day?

[Anonymous]

If the drug ring speculators are correct, and they stumbled into fentanyl or a wire or booby trap of some sort, how the heck would LE be able to even announce anything to the public without jeopardizing any future cases?

Would that even be possible to be publicly stated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's really sad is his work should have called 911 on Monday morning. Maybe one or both of them would have been found alive if the police were searching Monday morning and afternoon? The police didn't find their bodies until Wednesday morning.

"The family was reported missing at about 11 pm on August 16, after their daughter’s nanny found that they had not returned home and friends and work colleagues could not contact them. John was supposed to work Monday and never showed up and that raised more concerns."

Not that it's that relevant, but they were found on Tuesday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was there really zero shade? All the trees are dead? Wouldn't the mountains on which ever side act as shade at least half the day?

Yes, there was a big fire there in 2018 that killed off all of the vegetation. Anything new that may have started to grow in the past 2-3 years would be way too small to provide any shade. And the hillside faces almost directly east, so it wouldn't get any shade from the terrain until late afternoon - it would have all morning and mid-day to heat the rocky hillside (which then holds and reflects heat really well).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

I keep seeing people say the baby was found in the carrier. Did LE say that? I only recall seeing LE say the baby was found next to the dad, not that the baby was found in the carrier next to the dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

New poster.

re: the bold: You're not the first person here to say "but the mom should have taken the baby with her if she was going for help --I would have taken the baby/any mom would never leave her baby behind/ I think she would have taken the baby" etc. etc.

A person who has been in the broiling sun and is possibly in a stage of heat stroke/exhaustion, and is frantic with worry, is not necessarily going to make logical or safe choices and decisions.

Those posting how they would of course gone all mama bear and taken that baby are posting from their air-conditioned homes, with full benefit of hydration and perfect hindsight. It's just silly for people to post about how they would have, or she should have, taken the baby rather than leaving her with the father. We cannot know what we might do or not do with our brains fried by intense heat at a minimum, and possibly with the effects of inhalation or ingestion of something toxic like gases in the area.

And don't forget the mom has had a traumatic brain Injury. It was bad enough she had to leave her career.

What? Where did you read about a traumatic brain injury? I know a “debilitating health condition” factored into her leaving a tech job in 2018, but no mention of what that was.

https://m.facebook.com/satoriyogasf/posts/weve-got-so-many-great-new-classes-at-satoriyogastudio-have-you-tried-vinyasa-fl/10156943644781845/

[Anonymous]

Good find on the traumatic brain injury.

Taking that a step further, from the Google: "Heat sensitivity is a common problem for many TBI patients. After a brain injury, you may be more vulnerable to problems such as heat rash and you can be at a higher risk of heat stroke."

"The hypothalamus helps to active sweat glands to help naturally cool the body. However, if the hypothalamus is damaged after a traumatic brain injury, its ability to perform these functions may be impaired. As a result, heat sensitivity can develop."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

You are making some assumptions there to crap on the parents....just wait for the facts FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

New poster.

re: the bold: You're not the first person here to say "but the mom should have taken the baby with her if she was going for help --I would have taken the baby/any mom would never leave her baby behind/ I think she would have taken the baby" etc. etc.

A person who has been in the broiling sun and is possibly in a stage of heat stroke/exhaustion, and is frantic with worry, is not necessarily going to make logical or safe choices and decisions.

Those posting how they would of course gone all mama bear and taken that baby are posting from their air-conditioned homes, with full benefit of hydration and perfect hindsight. It's just silly for people to post about how they would have, or she should have, taken the baby rather than leaving her with the father. We cannot know what we might do or not do with our brains fried by intense heat at a minimum, and possibly with the effects of inhalation or ingestion of something toxic like gases in the area.

There's also the horrific possibility that the baby was already dead by the time the mom left to get help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

New poster.

re: the bold: You're not the first person here to say "but the mom should have taken the baby with her if she was going for help --I would have taken the baby/any mom would never leave her baby behind/ I think she would have taken the baby" etc. etc.

A person who has been in the broiling sun and is possibly in a stage of heat stroke/exhaustion, and is frantic with worry, is not necessarily going to make logical or safe choices and decisions.

Those posting how they would of course gone all mama bear and taken that baby are posting from their air-conditioned homes, with full benefit of hydration and perfect hindsight. It's just silly for people to post about how they would have, or she should have, taken the baby rather than leaving her with the father. We cannot know what we might do or not do with our brains fried by intense heat at a minimum, and possibly with the effects of inhalation or ingestion of something toxic like gases in the area.

And don't forget the mom has had a traumatic brain Injury. It was bad enough she had to leave her career.

What? Where did you read about a traumatic brain injury? I know a “debilitating health condition” factored into her leaving a tech job in 2018, but no mention of what that was.

https://m.facebook.com/satoriyogasf/posts/weve-got-so-many-great-new-classes-at-satoriyogastudio-have-you-tried-vinyasa-fl/10156943644781845/

Are we sure that is the same Ellen Chung? She looks different from the photos early on in the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

New poster.

re: the bold: You're not the first person here to say "but the mom should have taken the baby with her if she was going for help --I would have taken the baby/any mom would never leave her baby behind/ I think she would have taken the baby" etc. etc.

A person who has been in the broiling sun and is possibly in a stage of heat stroke/exhaustion, and is frantic with worry, is not necessarily going to make logical or safe choices and decisions.

Those posting how they would of course gone all mama bear and taken that baby are posting from their air-conditioned homes, with full benefit of hydration and perfect hindsight. It's just silly for people to post about how they would have, or she should have, taken the baby rather than leaving her with the father. We cannot know what we might do or not do with our brains fried by intense heat at a minimum, and possibly with the effects of inhalation or ingestion of something toxic like gases in the area.

And don't forget the mom has had a traumatic brain Injury. It was bad enough she had to leave her career.

What? Where did you read about a traumatic brain injury? I know a “debilitating health condition” factored into her leaving a tech job in 2018, but no mention of what that was.

https://m.facebook.com/satoriyogasf/posts/weve-got-so-many-great-new-classes-at-satoriyogastudio-have-you-tried-vinyasa-fl/10156943644781845/

Are we sure that is the same Ellen Chung? She looks different from the photos early on in the thread.

Lol. It’s her… just with lighter hair and more eye makeup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the drug ring speculators are correct, and they stumbled into fentanyl or a wire or booby trap of some sort, how the heck would LE be able to even announce anything to the public without jeopardizing any future cases?

Would that even be possible to be publicly stated?

Why would drug dealers attract attention to themselves by leaving the bodies to be found?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

There was a map posted in the San Francisco Chronicle - the article requires a newspaper subscription to view, but let's see if this works:
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/43/10/21377542/6/400x0.jpg

It's a reporter's interpretation of law enforcement's description - the map wasn't created by LE directly, so there may be some room for error in translation. But the big points are:
1. The car was parked near the intersection of trailheads to both ends of the loop
2. LE stated that they believed the family was at the end of an 8.5-mile loop, and they were found approximately 1.5 miles from their car
3. When they first found the car, it sounds like the search party started out onto the Hites Cove Trail section, where they found footprints & dog prints consistent with a family of that size. But they did not locate the family. The next day, they sent a search party down the trail the other direction (Savage Lundy), where they found the bodies 1.5 miles down.

In other words - this appears to be what LE THINKS they hiked, but nobody really knows for sure yet. I hope there is data on his phone that will tell.

Yes thank you, I can see the map the way you linked it.
Good visualization of the switchbacks. Now I know what is meant by the better choice is to start there and end on the easier section.