What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Toxicology is supposed to come back today. At this point we have discussed all the possibilities. Can't know any thing definitively without more concrete information.

- team freak fatal natural occurrence like CO emission based on behavior of law enforcement but who won't be surprised if it was heat stroke

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

There is nothing unusual about the dad being found in a seated position. I guess you haven't gone out and read about other heat stroke victims. This has been brought up so many times and yet you keep trying to make it something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

The only reason this story is getting attention is because of the dramatic "being treated as a hazmat site!!" way the story broke. If it had been reported as what it almost certainly is (heat stroke) it would be a blip, one of those tragic stories you might see on CNN and hope to forget about ASAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

8+ miles is no casual walk in the park. I'd say anything over 2 or 3 miles is really pushing it for a family. Not even factoring in the brutal extreme weather. So were they confused about the length, knew they were doing an 8+ mile hike, or did they likely get lost without a phone signal (map)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I watch this thread count grow and am utterly bewildered.

Bewildered by the interest on this thread? This is case is truly fascinating. The circumstances are bizarre. There's no clear answer. Lots of speculation. Yes, families have been found dead together before, but this one is unique with the dog being dead too, the mom being found very close by, the dad in an upright position (how is that even possible?), the baby still in the carrier. All of it is very, very weird and I can see why this thread is as long as it is. I am beginning to believe the theory that the mom stayed to help the dad and finally succumbed to heat stroke as she made a last ditch effort to try to get the car, which explains why she didn't make it very far. The dog is still the outlier as has already been discussed at length before. I'm not buying the murder-suicide theory. There are easier ways to do that than to take your entire family hiking in extreme heat and wait until the end after an 8.5mile hike to poison everyone, including yourself.

Plus on top of all that, we get these truly confounding statements from law enforcement and forest officials. As from the Sierra National Forest order shutting down the area, citing "unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail." If these hazards are found, how can they be "unknown"? Is this a meteorite from outer space?

Or the sheriff's office (I think it was them) quoted as saying that this family was "well prepared" for the hike, AND, they think the family was hiking the full 8.5 mile loop. By definition, it is NOT safe for a hairy dog and a baby in a carrier to stay out that long in an unshaded area in heat that is anything approaching what it was that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

^ here is a trail map: https://www.yosemitehikes.com/not-yosemite/hite-cove/trail-map.htm
Sounds like it is 9 miles roundtrip. I don't think we know whether they were planning on hiking the whole thing though.

[Anonymous]

This was clearly a family really into extreme hiking. I think they just carelessly overestimated their skill and succumbed to extreme heat and exhaustion – perhaps without cell signal they got lost, which extended the trip and made it all the more dangerous. But this was dangerous from the get-go. No more what they were going to have their in the blazing sun for hours? That's so cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

New poster.

re: the bold: You're not the first person here to say "but the mom should have taken the baby with her if she was going for help --I would have taken the baby/any mom would never leave her baby behind/ I think she would have taken the baby" etc. etc.

A person who has been in the broiling sun and is possibly in a stage of heat stroke/exhaustion, and is frantic with worry, is not necessarily going to make logical or safe choices and decisions.

Those posting how they would of course gone all mama bear and taken that baby are posting from their air-conditioned homes, with full benefit of hydration and perfect hindsight. It's just silly for people to post about how they would have, or she should have, taken the baby rather than leaving her with the father. We cannot know what we might do or not do with our brains fried by intense heat at a minimum, and possibly with the effects of inhalation or ingestion of something toxic like gases in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

New poster.

re: the bold: You're not the first person here to say "but the mom should have taken the baby with her if she was going for help --I would have taken the baby/any mom would never leave her baby behind/ I think she would have taken the baby" etc. etc.

A person who has been in the broiling sun and is possibly in a stage of heat stroke/exhaustion, and is frantic with worry, is not necessarily going to make logical or safe choices and decisions.

Those posting how they would of course gone all mama bear and taken that baby are posting from their air-conditioned homes, with full benefit of hydration and perfect hindsight. It's just silly for people to post about how they would have, or she should have, taken the baby rather than leaving her with the father. We cannot know what we might do or not do with our brains fried by intense heat at a minimum, and possibly with the effects of inhalation or ingestion of something toxic like gases in the area.

And don't forget the mom has had a traumatic brain Injury. It was bad enough she had to leave her career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a photo of the map trail, detailing where the car was and where the bodies were found? I'm having trouble understanding an 8+ mile hike. Was it a clearly defined loop trail that circled back to their car or was it a maze of trails and it's possible they got lost and took a much longer path than they thought, putting them further and further away from their car?

I know I read they were only 1.5 miles from their car. Had they completed 6.5 miles before they passed away? Do we know the answer?

On another note, if the mom was leaving to go get help, would she really leave the baby in the carrier with the husband, sitting in the blazing sun? I would think she would have taken the baby with her.

There was a map posted in the San Francisco Chronicle - the article requires a newspaper subscription to view, but let's see if this works:
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/43/10/21377542/6/400x0.jpg

It's a reporter's interpretation of law enforcement's description - the map wasn't created by LE directly, so there may be some room for error in translation. But the big points are:
1. The car was parked near the intersection of trailheads to both ends of the loop
2. LE stated that they believed the family was at the end of an 8.5-mile loop, and they were found approximately 1.5 miles from their car
3. When they first found the car, it sounds like the search party started out onto the Hites Cove Trail section, where they found footprints & dog prints consistent with a family of that size. But they did not locate the family. The next day, they sent a search party down the trail the other direction (Savage Lundy), where they found the bodies 1.5 miles down.

In other words - this appears to be what LE THINKS they hiked, but nobody really knows for sure yet. I hope there is data on his phone that will tell.

[Anonymous]

What's really sad is his work should have called 911 on Monday morning. Maybe one or both of them would have been found alive if the police were searching Monday morning and afternoon? The police didn't find their bodies until Wednesday morning.

"The family was reported missing at about 11 pm on August 16, after their daughter’s nanny found that they had not returned home and friends and work colleagues could not contact them. John was supposed to work Monday and never showed up and that raised more concerns."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's really sad is his work should have called 911 on Monday morning. Maybe one or both of them would have been found alive if the police were searching Monday morning and afternoon? The police didn't find their bodies until Wednesday morning.

"The family was reported missing at about 11 pm on August 16, after their daughter’s nanny found that they had not returned home and friends and work colleagues could not contact them. John was supposed to work Monday and never showed up and that raised more concerns."

His work and their nanny*