That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now the women's swim team at Stanford speak up about Brock's creepy behavior but they were pressured not to go forward.

Thanks for posting this. It's being reported here: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/brock-turner-stanford-women-s-swim-team-105204

O.k. I think that this is significant new info. If women on the Stanford swim team felt threatened and creeped out by him - both during practice and at parties, it indicates a much stronger pattern of disturbing behavior leading up to this sexual assault.

I was having a hard time seeing a regular nice guy suddenly - out of the blue - snapping and purposefully sexually assaulting a woman. But if there was a pattern of increasing aggressive/creepy behavior....that would make more sense.

I think this is what many of us were trying to get at when everyone was wringing their hands about how such a nice boy could do this: we've known men like this who can present nice in one direction, but are creepy and criminal in another. The Brocks of the world aren't nice to all of us.

Sorry. I was seeing young, inexperienced guy being led behind the dumpster by an older heavy drinker. I still wonder about that whole scenario and how on earth (why!!) they wound up back there. Not all women are nice to men either...but you're right there are some guys who appear one way in front of the crowd and are completely different around their prey.

I was getting a different picture from the interviews with witnesses in the police reports and released court documents. There is no witness evidence that he was "led" anywhere. She was 22 and he was 19 at the time of the incident, so not such a big difference in age.

And in terms of drinking, she had not been drinking much in the months leading up to the incident. He, on the other hand, had been drinking heavily the whole time he was at Stanford, according to his own letter and had even been charged with MIP during the fall. There is also photo and text evidence of his use of marijuana and acid, so he seemed to have experience with the effects of both drugs and alcohol. Add in the witness testimony that he had been kissing and grabbing women without their permission at the party just shortly before the timeline places him with Emily when the Swedes rode by on their bikes and I was seeing a picture that correlated with the jury verdict of guilty.

She was a self described "party animal" in her college days. She had a tolerance if she was able to drink 4 shots in quick succession and her mom was willing to drop her off on a college campus...the girl is a drinker. She may have been drinking less than normal in the months leading up to this but the girl had a BAC 3X the legal limit. She was drinking cups of vodka.

You can not with a straight face call that a "light" drinker. And you can not compare her experience to that of a 4 month freshman. You can't. They are vast worlds apart in experience.

Lots of people like to say they were "party animals" in their college days. It is not all that meaningful a term. It can just as easily describe someone who liked going out dancing as someone who drank a lot. The fact is that in the months leading up to this particular night in January of 2015, Emily had not been drinking much. Her sister was home for the weekend and she decided to spend time with her and her other friends and they were all drinking. The defendant was also drinking with his friends that night, and there is ample evidence that he had been using alcohol and drugs for at least the year prior to this particular night. He was familiar with the sight of drunk and high people.

The bolded above is the picture produced in my mind by the court documents that have been released.

Being familiar with the sight of drunk and high kids is actually not the same thing as being familiar with habitual heavy drinking, which Brock is not familiar with. You don't go from light drinker to downing shots in front of your own mom and drinking cups of vodka and still looking "fine" to your much less drunk sister. The girl stayed at the party drinking after her sister had left.

Brock is not the one minimizing the amount of alcohol he drank. He has said that he never wants to drink again.

By four months into my freshman year of college, I was as familiar with habitual heavy drinking as I am now. If he was going to parties regularly, why are you insisting that he had no idea what he was doing?

He was not the one with 3X the legal limit BAC. He hung around with other competitive athletes - they dabbled in drugs and alcohol. They were not blacking out and passing out behind dumpsters and swimming laps the next day or even the day after that.

It takes time to get to that level.

Omg-what in the world is wrong with you? Happily, you are in the (widely despised) minority on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There is no question in my mind that BAT committed a crime here. Not debatable.

My question is: what mother drives her daughters (who have been doing shots of whiskey) to a frat party?!!!

I know. That got me too.

Out of curiosity, are you more interested in that or what kind of mother raises a serial groper/liar/creeper/sex-offender/felon?

Did Brock's mother help him assault Emily? No. So you are out of line. Sometimes kids with good and decent parents do things that good parents would never condone.

This has been an absolute nightmare for Brock's family. But I do wonder about a mother who would drop her daughter off drunk at a college campus. That is just really odd.

I am asking the question because pp was so curious about Emily's mother dropping her off at a frat party. I agree Brocks mom isn't responsible for his crime (though she is for her cringe-worthy letter to the judge) however the idea that somehow the victim's mom is fair game for criticism but the person responsible for sending this sex offender out into the world isn't is insane.

By all indications, Brock's parents have done an admirable job of raising 3 young adults. They've put in the time/effort/love, they know their kids and they stand behind their kids. Brock's mom has doubts that her son did this. She is reeling. This has been devastating. She is not about to lay her baby on the tracks and just watch the train run over him. She is fighting for him. And she will be behind him every step. You don't raise a kid through cub scouts and popcorn sales, early AM swimming practices, evening and weekend meets, first dates and prom and then just give up on his life.

Dropping your drunk daughter off on college campus is weird though. I hope that is not a new trend....

Well, duh, most parents will defend their children and say there is no way they can act in that manner. But I didn't know you are so acquainted with Brock's family to know they have done an admirable job raising their kids. Because what we see and hear in public is always a perfect indicator of the types of people we are, right?

It's nice how you can make judgments about Emily's mom by her one action.

Brock's parents did everything right with their kids. I've read their story and I understand their anguish. I don't know anything about Emily's mom other than this business of dropping her drunk daughter off but, as a parent, I relate more to the type of parenting that Brock's parents were doing. I don't see any fault there and I think it's really low of people to accuse them of condoning rape. They don't condone anything of the kind. They do, however, believe in their son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Being familiar with the sight of drunk and high kids is actually not the same thing as being familiar with habitual heavy drinking, which Brock is not familiar with. You don't go from light drinker to downing shots in front of your own mom and drinking cups of vodka and still looking "fine" to your much less drunk sister. The girl stayed at the party drinking after her sister had left.

Brock is not the one minimizing the amount of alcohol he drank. He has said that he never wants to drink again."

Unbelievable. Who the hell cares if Emily drank shots before the party? No one else cares, the jury didn't care. Sure she may not have used the best judgment, but she had a legal right ot her actions. Brock on the other hand did not have a legal right to stick his body parts into her without her consent.

As far as her mom driving her to the party, maybe Emily drank the shots in her room and mom was not aware. So bizarre the lengths you are going to blame Emily and her family.

Thank goodness you are in the minority with your weird, twisted beliefs.

The girl was NOT a "LIGHT" drinker no matter how you try to spin this. She was a whiskey shot shooting, red solo cup full of vodka swigging heavy drinker "party animal" whose own mother dropped her off on the campus after she had downed 4 shots of whiskey. Someone said that Brock had seen that level of drinking before, I disagree. Someone suggested that a 4 month freshman was The Same thing as a college grad. No. They are not The Same.

Maybe he was too busy being familiar with hash and LSD use to be familiar with the shocking sight of a red solo cup brandishing young woman?

He had dabbled and talked "cool" about drugs to fit in. If drugs had been in his system you would have heard about it. There were no drugs. He wasn't using them, no one at the fraternity was using them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now the women's swim team at Stanford speak up about Brock's creepy behavior but they were pressured not to go forward.

Thanks for posting this. It's being reported here: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/brock-turner-stanford-women-s-swim-team-105204

O.k. I think that this is significant new info. If women on the Stanford swim team felt threatened and creeped out by him - both during practice and at parties, it indicates a much stronger pattern of disturbing behavior leading up to this sexual assault.

I was having a hard time seeing a regular nice guy suddenly - out of the blue - snapping and purposefully sexually assaulting a woman. But if there was a pattern of increasing aggressive/creepy behavior....that would make more sense.

I think this is what many of us were trying to get at when everyone was wringing their hands about how such a nice boy could do this: we've known men like this who can present nice in one direction, but are creepy and criminal in another. The Brocks of the world aren't nice to all of us.

Sorry. I was seeing young, inexperienced guy being led behind the dumpster by an older heavy drinker. I still wonder about that whole scenario and how on earth (why!!) they wound up back there. Not all women are nice to men either...but you're right there are some guys who appear one way in front of the crowd and are completely different around their prey.

I was getting a different picture from the interviews with witnesses in the police reports and released court documents. There is no witness evidence that he was "led" anywhere. She was 22 and he was 19 at the time of the incident, so not such a big difference in age.

And in terms of drinking, she had not been drinking much in the months leading up to the incident. He, on the other hand, had been drinking heavily the whole time he was at Stanford, according to his own letter and had even been charged with MIP during the fall. There is also photo and text evidence of his use of marijuana and acid, so he seemed to have experience with the effects of both drugs and alcohol. Add in the witness testimony that he had been kissing and grabbing women without their permission at the party just shortly before the timeline places him with Emily when the Swedes rode by on their bikes and I was seeing a picture that correlated with the jury verdict of guilty.

She was a self described "party animal" in her college days. She had a tolerance if she was able to drink 4 shots in quick succession and her mom was willing to drop her off on a college campus...the girl is a drinker. She may have been drinking less than normal in the months leading up to this but the girl had a BAC 3X the legal limit. She was drinking cups of vodka.

You can not with a straight face call that a "light" drinker. And you can not compare her experience to that of a 4 month freshman. You can't. They are vast worlds apart in experience.

Lots of people like to say they were "party animals" in their college days. It is not all that meaningful a term. It can just as easily describe someone who liked going out dancing as someone who drank a lot. The fact is that in the months leading up to this particular night in January of 2015, Emily had not been drinking much. Her sister was home for the weekend and she decided to spend time with her and her other friends and they were all drinking. The defendant was also drinking with his friends that night, and there is ample evidence that he had been using alcohol and drugs for at least the year prior to this particular night. He was familiar with the sight of drunk and high people.

The bolded above is the picture produced in my mind by the court documents that have been released.

Being familiar with the sight of drunk and high kids is actually not the same thing as being familiar with habitual heavy drinking, which Brock is not familiar with. You don't go from light drinker to downing shots in front of your own mom and drinking cups of vodka and still looking "fine" to your much less drunk sister. The girl stayed at the party drinking after her sister had left.

Brock is not the one minimizing the amount of alcohol he drank. He has said that he never wants to drink again.

By four months into my freshman year of college, I was as familiar with habitual heavy drinking as I am now. If he was going to parties regularly, why are you insisting that he had no idea what he was doing?

He was not the one with 3X the legal limit BAC. He hung around with other competitive athletes - they dabbled in drugs and alcohol. They were not blacking out and passing out behind dumpsters and swimming laps the next day or even the day after that.

It takes time to get to that level.

Omg-what in the world is wrong with you? Happily, you are in the (widely despised) minority on this issue.

You think that Brock was a drug addict/alcoholic AND an Olympic hopeful? Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no question in my mind that BAT committed a crime here. Not debatable.

My question is: what mother drives her daughters (who have been doing shots of whiskey) to a frat party?!!!

I know. That got me too.

Out of curiosity, are you more interested in that or what kind of mother raises a serial groper/liar/creeper/sex-offender/felon?

Did Brock's mother help him assault Emily? No. So you are out of line. Sometimes kids with good and decent parents do things that good parents would never condone.

This has been an absolute nightmare for Brock's family. But I do wonder about a mother who would drop her daughter off drunk at a college campus. That is just really odd.

I am asking the question because pp was so curious about Emily's mother dropping her off at a frat party. I agree Brocks mom isn't responsible for his crime (though she is for her cringe-worthy letter to the judge) however the idea that somehow the victim's mom is fair game for criticism but the person responsible for sending this sex offender out into the world isn't is insane.

By all indications, Brock's parents have done an admirable job of raising 3 young adults. They've put in the time/effort/love, they know their kids and they stand behind their kids. Brock's mom has doubts that her son did this. She is reeling. This has been devastating. She is not about to lay her baby on the tracks and just watch the train run over him. She is fighting for him. And she will be behind him every step. You don't raise a kid through cub scouts and popcorn sales, early AM swimming practices, evening and weekend meets, first dates and prom and then just give up on his life.

Dropping your drunk daughter off on college campus is weird though. I hope that is not a new trend....

Well, duh, most parents will defend their children and say there is no way they can act in that manner. But I didn't know you are so acquainted with Brock's family to know they have done an admirable job raising their kids. Because what we see and hear in public is always a perfect indicator of the types of people we are, right?

It's nice how you can make judgments about Emily's mom by her one action.

Brock's parents did everything right with their kids. I've read their story and I understand their anguish. I don't know anything about Emily's mom other than this business of dropping her drunk daughter off but, as a parent, I relate more to the type of parenting that Brock's parents were doing. I don't see any fault there and I think it's really low of people to accuse them of condoning rape. They don't condone anything of the kind. They do, however, believe in their son.

This is so very odd. A Brock groupie. Maybe you can contact him once he is released from jail and help him get a job, etc. You would at least be taking positive action, rather than trying to tear down the person he violated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no question in my mind that BAT committed a crime here. Not debatable.

My question is: what mother drives her daughters (who have been doing shots of whiskey) to a frat party?!!!

I know. That got me too.

Out of curiosity, are you more interested in that or what kind of mother raises a serial groper/liar/creeper/sex-offender/felon?

Did Brock's mother help him assault Emily? No. So you are out of line. Sometimes kids with good and decent parents do things that good parents would never condone.

This has been an absolute nightmare for Brock's family. But I do wonder about a mother who would drop her daughter off drunk at a college campus. That is just really odd.

I am asking the question because pp was so curious about Emily's mother dropping her off at a frat party. I agree Brocks mom isn't responsible for his crime (though she is for her cringe-worthy letter to the judge) however the idea that somehow the victim's mom is fair game for criticism but the person responsible for sending this sex offender out into the world isn't is insane.

By all indications, Brock's parents have done an admirable job of raising 3 young adults. They've put in the time/effort/love, they know their kids and they stand behind their kids. Brock's mom has doubts that her son did this. She is reeling. This has been devastating. She is not about to lay her baby on the tracks and just watch the train run over him. She is fighting for him. And she will be behind him every step. You don't raise a kid through cub scouts and popcorn sales, early AM swimming practices, evening and weekend meets, first dates and prom and then just give up on his life.

Dropping your drunk daughter off on college campus is weird though. I hope that is not a new trend....

Well, duh, most parents will defend their children and say there is no way they can act in that manner. But I didn't know you are so acquainted with Brock's family to know they have done an admirable job raising their kids. Because what we see and hear in public is always a perfect indicator of the types of people we are, right?

It's nice how you can make judgments about Emily's mom by her one action.

Brock's parents did everything right with their kids. I've read their story and I understand their anguish. I don't know anything about Emily's mom other than this business of dropping her drunk daughter off but, as a parent, I relate more to the type of parenting that Brock's parents were doing. I don't see any fault there and I think it's really low of people to accuse them of condoning rape. They don't condone anything of the kind. They do, however, believe in their son.

This is so very odd. A Brock groupie. Maybe you can contact him once he is released from jail and help him get a job, etc. You would at least be taking positive action, rather than trying to tear down the person he violated.

Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now the women's swim team at Stanford speak up about Brock's creepy behavior but they were pressured not to go forward.

Thanks for posting this. It's being reported here: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/brock-turner-stanford-women-s-swim-team-105204

O.k. I think that this is significant new info. If women on the Stanford swim team felt threatened and creeped out by him - both during practice and at parties, it indicates a much stronger pattern of disturbing behavior leading up to this sexual assault.

I was having a hard time seeing a regular nice guy suddenly - out of the blue - snapping and purposefully sexually assaulting a woman. But if there was a pattern of increasing aggressive/creepy behavior....that would make more sense.

I think this is what many of us were trying to get at when everyone was wringing their hands about how such a nice boy could do this: we've known men like this who can present nice in one direction, but are creepy and criminal in another. The Brocks of the world aren't nice to all of us.

Sorry. I was seeing young, inexperienced guy being led behind the dumpster by an older heavy drinker. I still wonder about that whole scenario and how on earth (why!!) they wound up back there. Not all women are nice to men either...but you're right there are some guys who appear one way in front of the crowd and are completely different around their prey.

I was getting a different picture from the interviews with witnesses in the police reports and released court documents. There is no witness evidence that he was "led" anywhere. She was 22 and he was 19 at the time of the incident, so not such a big difference in age.

And in terms of drinking, she had not been drinking much in the months leading up to the incident. He, on the other hand, had been drinking heavily the whole time he was at Stanford, according to his own letter and had even been charged with MIP during the fall. There is also photo and text evidence of his use of marijuana and acid, so he seemed to have experience with the effects of both drugs and alcohol. Add in the witness testimony that he had been kissing and grabbing women without their permission at the party just shortly before the timeline places him with Emily when the Swedes rode by on their bikes and I was seeing a picture that correlated with the jury verdict of guilty.

She was a self described "party animal" in her college days. She had a tolerance if she was able to drink 4 shots in quick succession and her mom was willing to drop her off on a college campus...the girl is a drinker. She may have been drinking less than normal in the months leading up to this but the girl had a BAC 3X the legal limit. She was drinking cups of vodka.

You can not with a straight face call that a "light" drinker. And you can not compare her experience to that of a 4 month freshman. You can't. They are vast worlds apart in experience.

Lots of people like to say they were "party animals" in their college days. It is not all that meaningful a term. It can just as easily describe someone who liked going out dancing as someone who drank a lot. The fact is that in the months leading up to this particular night in January of 2015, Emily had not been drinking much. Her sister was home for the weekend and she decided to spend time with her and her other friends and they were all drinking. The defendant was also drinking with his friends that night, and there is ample evidence that he had been using alcohol and drugs for at least the year prior to this particular night. He was familiar with the sight of drunk and high people.

The bolded above is the picture produced in my mind by the court documents that have been released.

Being familiar with the sight of drunk and high kids is actually not the same thing as being familiar with habitual heavy drinking, which Brock is not familiar with. You don't go from light drinker to downing shots in front of your own mom and drinking cups of vodka and still looking "fine" to your much less drunk sister. The girl stayed at the party drinking after her sister had left.

Brock is not the one minimizing the amount of alcohol he drank. He has said that he never wants to drink again.

By four months into my freshman year of college, I was as familiar with habitual heavy drinking as I am now. If he was going to parties regularly, why are you insisting that he had no idea what he was doing?

He was not the one with 3X the legal limit BAC. He hung around with other competitive athletes - they dabbled in drugs and alcohol. They were not blacking out and passing out behind dumpsters and swimming laps the next day or even the day after that.

It takes time to get to that level.

Omg-what in the world is wrong with you? Happily, you are in the (widely despised) minority on this issue.

You think that Brock was a drug addict/alcoholic AND an Olympic hopeful? Really?

You think athletes at all levels don't have drug abuse drugs? Really? I guess it's possible his texts talking about planning to and having just used illegal drugs are examples of him lying, but the fact that you would use this as an example of his adorable innocence (before being led astray by the 22 year old run amok, presumably) is seriously nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

The funny thing is while you are accusing others of giving Emily a pass, you can't seem to see that others (like you) are doing everything in your power to minimize Brock's role - he was younger, newbie at drinking, parents who raised him correctly, no way he was doing drugs, his level of drinking could never match up to Emily's and on and on.

Come on, at least acknowledge that you are very biased - and your bias is not only in the name of warning girls that their actions can have dangerous consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now the women's swim team at Stanford speak up about Brock's creepy behavior but they were pressured not to go forward.

Thanks for posting this. It's being reported here: http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/brock-turner-stanford-women-s-swim-team-105204

O.k. I think that this is significant new info. If women on the Stanford swim team felt threatened and creeped out by him - both during practice and at parties, it indicates a much stronger pattern of disturbing behavior leading up to this sexual assault.

I was having a hard time seeing a regular nice guy suddenly - out of the blue - snapping and purposefully sexually assaulting a woman. But if there was a pattern of increasing aggressive/creepy behavior....that would make more sense.

I think this is what many of us were trying to get at when everyone was wringing their hands about how such a nice boy could do this: we've known men like this who can present nice in one direction, but are creepy and criminal in another. The Brocks of the world aren't nice to all of us.

Sorry. I was seeing young, inexperienced guy being led behind the dumpster by an older heavy drinker. I still wonder about that whole scenario and how on earth (why!!) they wound up back there. Not all women are nice to men either...but you're right there are some guys who appear one way in front of the crowd and are completely different around their prey.

I was getting a different picture from the interviews with witnesses in the police reports and released court documents. There is no witness evidence that he was "led" anywhere. She was 22 and he was 19 at the time of the incident, so not such a big difference in age.

And in terms of drinking, she had not been drinking much in the months leading up to the incident. He, on the other hand, had been drinking heavily the whole time he was at Stanford, according to his own letter and had even been charged with MIP during the fall. There is also photo and text evidence of his use of marijuana and acid, so he seemed to have experience with the effects of both drugs and alcohol. Add in the witness testimony that he had been kissing and grabbing women without their permission at the party just shortly before the timeline places him with Emily when the Swedes rode by on their bikes and I was seeing a picture that correlated with the jury verdict of guilty.

She was a self described "party animal" in her college days. She had a tolerance if she was able to drink 4 shots in quick succession and her mom was willing to drop her off on a college campus...the girl is a drinker. She may have been drinking less than normal in the months leading up to this but the girl had a BAC 3X the legal limit. She was drinking cups of vodka.

You can not with a straight face call that a "light" drinker. And you can not compare her experience to that of a 4 month freshman. You can't. They are vast worlds apart in experience.

Lots of people like to say they were "party animals" in their college days. It is not all that meaningful a term. It can just as easily describe someone who liked going out dancing as someone who drank a lot. The fact is that in the months leading up to this particular night in January of 2015, Emily had not been drinking much. Her sister was home for the weekend and she decided to spend time with her and her other friends and they were all drinking. The defendant was also drinking with his friends that night, and there is ample evidence that he had been using alcohol and drugs for at least the year prior to this particular night. He was familiar with the sight of drunk and high people.

The bolded above is the picture produced in my mind by the court documents that have been released.

Being familiar with the sight of drunk and high kids is actually not the same thing as being familiar with habitual heavy drinking, which Brock is not familiar with. You don't go from light drinker to downing shots in front of your own mom and drinking cups of vodka and still looking "fine" to your much less drunk sister. The girl stayed at the party drinking after her sister had left.

Brock is not the one minimizing the amount of alcohol he drank. He has said that he never wants to drink again.

By four months into my freshman year of college, I was as familiar with habitual heavy drinking as I am now. If he was going to parties regularly, why are you insisting that he had no idea what he was doing?

He was not the one with 3X the legal limit BAC. He hung around with other competitive athletes - they dabbled in drugs and alcohol. They were not blacking out and passing out behind dumpsters and swimming laps the next day or even the day after that.

It takes time to get to that level.

Omg-what in the world is wrong with you? Happily, you are in the (widely despised) minority on this issue.

You think that Brock was a drug addict/alcoholic AND an Olympic hopeful? Really?

Yes. Swimmers are notorious partiers. They usually get fall down knock out drunk on Saturday nights since Sunday is the only day they have without practice or a meet. They will stop a few weeks before a big meet but otherwise are big drinkers and drug users.

[Anonymous]

I normally would not judge the parents in this type of situation but those letters they wrote open them up to harsh criticism. It seems like they put him on a pedestal and let him do whatever he wanted. The two lines that stand out are the father writing about 20 minutes of action and the mother writing "why him" over and over. This is really problematic to me. Kind of reminds me of George Higuely. Raised to be an entitled ass. I'm not sure but those letters sure make it seem that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I normally would not judge the parents in this type of situation but those letters they wrote open them up to harsh criticism. It seems like they put him on a pedestal and let him do whatever he wanted. The two lines that stand out are the father writing about 20 minutes of action and the mother writing "why him" over and over. This is really problematic to me. Kind of reminds me of George Higuely. Raised to be an entitled ass. I'm not sure but those letters sure make it seem that way.

It's very easy to read the letters in the worst possible light. We can be generous and think that the parents are not in their right minds, worried for their child. Or we can take the letters at face value and think those are true reflections of the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

The funny thing is while you are accusing others of giving Emily a pass, you can't seem to see that others (like you) are doing everything in your power to minimize Brock's role - he was younger, newbie at drinking, parents who raised him correctly, no way he was doing drugs, his level of drinking could never match up to Emily's and on and on.

Come on, at least acknowledge that you are very biased - and your bias is not only in the name of warning girls that their actions can have dangerous consequences.

Actually, I think that in Emily's case you can see the train coming. Her drinking was catching up with her. That night wasn't going to end well for her.....the rocks were waiting for her to hit. This is not to say that she deserved to be sexually assaulted half naked behind a dumpster - but she was in trouble that night. She could have died that night.

With Brock? That train just smacked him, no warning. Never saw it coming. Good kid, good family, Olympic hopeful, bright future ahead. Smack.

The weird part of what Brock did is that he really is a newbie to the social party/drinking scene. He really was a teenager not a year out of HS with involved and protective parents. He really did not have the level of drinking/sexual experience that Emily had. Calling Brock "less experienced" in all ways is a statement of fact. Emily wasn't "bad" for being more experienced than a freshman. But college grads with full time jobs are expected to be more mature and experienced than a kid fresh out of HS. I'm actually a little tired of debating something that is just. So. Obvious. Duh. Sorry.

I would not expect a kid like Brock to suddenly and brazenly sexually assault a woman - behind a dumpster with a party full of people nearby. That is scary and serious stuff. Where the hell did this come from and what were the signs? What on earth was he thinking? What was Emily thinking go back there with him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

The funny thing is while you are accusing others of giving Emily a pass, you can't seem to see that others (like you) are doing everything in your power to minimize Brock's role - he was younger, newbie at drinking, parents who raised him correctly, no way he was doing drugs, his level of drinking could never match up to Emily's and on and on.

Come on, at least acknowledge that you are very biased - and your bias is not only in the name of warning girls that their actions can have dangerous consequences.

Actually, I think that in Emily's case you can see the train coming. Her drinking was catching up with her. That night wasn't going to end well for her.....the rocks were waiting for her to hit. This is not to say that she deserved to be sexually assaulted half naked behind a dumpster - but she was in trouble that night. She could have died that night.

With Brock? That train just smacked him, no warning. Never saw it coming. Good kid, good family, Olympic hopeful, bright future ahead. Smack.

The weird part of what Brock did is that he really is a newbie to the social party/drinking scene. He really was a teenager not a year out of HS with involved and protective parents. He really did not have the level of drinking/sexual experience that Emily had. Calling Brock "less experienced" in all ways is a statement of fact. Emily wasn't "bad" for being more experienced than a freshman. But college grads with full time jobs are expected to be more mature and experienced than a kid fresh out of HS. I'm actually a little tired of debating something that is just. So. Obvious. Duh. Sorry.

I would not expect a kid like Brock to suddenly and brazenly sexually assault a woman - behind a dumpster with a party full of people nearby. That is scary and serious stuff. Where the hell did this come from and what were the signs? What on earth was he thinking? What was Emily thinking go back there with him?



The signs: a patterns of making women uncomfortable with his sexual advances, drug use, underage drinking

What caused it:character flaws/maybe a personality disorder (his not hers in case that's not obvious to you)

You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

^Doesn't fully explain it. He had too much to lose being caught and he made no real attempt to even hide what he was doing. Why not lead her further away from the party if that was what he was planning? Why risk being seen like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anyone who says that Emily's drinking was not completely out of control and extremely dangerous that night is an enabler who is doing her a disservice by minimizing how harmful her drinking was that night. She needs to wise up and reign that in or she will be dead by the time she's 30. No joke.

I am not a "Brock groupie". But I also do not choose to demonize and blame this guy for everything under the sun that went wrong that night. He was wrong and he is paying a high price for what he did. That does not mean that Emily did not hurt herself. Calling her a light drinker or minimizing the horrific consequences of passing out the way that she did is not doing that girl any favors.

But if you think that a parent dropping their drunk daughter off on a college campus is fine, then maybe you just plain aren't going to ever get it.

If you give a sh*t about THAT girl you would not try to give her a pass on that drinking.

The funny thing is while you are accusing others of giving Emily a pass, you can't seem to see that others (like you) are doing everything in your power to minimize Brock's role - he was younger, newbie at drinking, parents who raised him correctly, no way he was doing drugs, his level of drinking could never match up to Emily's and on and on.

Come on, at least acknowledge that you are very biased - and your bias is not only in the name of warning girls that their actions can have dangerous consequences.

Actually, I think that in Emily's case you can see the train coming. Her drinking was catching up with her. That night wasn't going to end well for her.....the rocks were waiting for her to hit. This is not to say that she deserved to be sexually assaulted half naked behind a dumpster - but she was in trouble that night. She could have died that night.

With Brock? That train just smacked him, no warning. Never saw it coming. Good kid, good family, Olympic hopeful, bright future ahead. Smack.

The weird part of what Brock did is that he really is a newbie to the social party/drinking scene. He really was a teenager not a year out of HS with involved and protective parents. He really did not have the level of drinking/sexual experience that Emily had. Calling Brock "less experienced" in all ways is a statement of fact. Emily wasn't "bad" for being more experienced than a freshman. But college grads with full time jobs are expected to be more mature and experienced than a kid fresh out of HS. I'm actually a little tired of debating something that is just. So. Obvious. Duh. Sorry.

I would not expect a kid like Brock to suddenly and brazenly sexually assault a woman - behind a dumpster with a party full of people nearby. That is scary and serious stuff. Where the hell did this come from and what were the signs? What on earth was he thinking? What was Emily thinking go back there with him?

Expected or not, that is apparently what he did. And it doesn't appear to have been that out of character for him. A young woman had complained about him bothering her at a party two weeks before and the night of the party when he assaulted Emily he had been kissing and grabbing women. Maybe Emily was just the one who was unable to wriggle away from him when he kissed and grabbed her.

Emily did nothing illegal that night. Only the man who sexually assaulted her did.