Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I wasn't talking about this case, although in my opinion she was negligent in not getting the mom to the hospital within 5-10 minutes of the head entrapment. But I'm the one who has to take care of the disaster once it gets to the hospital, so maybe I'm excessively conservative compared to CPMs.

I was referring to cases that I've seen here (TX), in which live babies have (barely) made it through the traumatic birth but then didn't receive the respiratory support they needed and "mysteriously" died. Yes, in my opinion that's negligence. And in both cases, the midwife was "sentenced" by other CPMs to a few months of probation and they're still out there, delivering babies, not having to tell the new moms anything about their history of negligently causing infant deaths. CPMs should be held to higher training standards than CNMs, since they're out there with no back-up, but instead they're held to much lower standards. Again, moms are free to choose whatever they like, but I'm not sure that "research" into any given CPM will really tell the whole story. "

Thanks for sharing the above info. It sounds scarily similar to what may have happened with the baby in St. Mary's County, MD.

And how can KC claim that the breech delivery was not the cause of the head entrapment in the Alexandria delivery? Without the head as a dilating wedge, that is one of the possible complications of a breech. When the presenting part delivers before the cervix is fully dilated this can lead to head entrapment.

Or was it instead a case of CPD, cephalopelvic disproportion? If so, why was this not picked up on much earlier?

Isn't that hard to diagnose with a "hands off" approach and with the presenting parts being smaller? If the baby hypothetically was CPD and presented normally, he would have failed to descend. Instead it became entrapment and death. As I understand it, CPD can't be diagnosed until labor, and at that point was Carr even checking for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

Btw this Mama here prefers to be called Mama by her children only. To you and to any medical professional, I am their mother, or if you know my first or last name, please call me by such.

This is pretty funny, considering you are posting anonymously. You are free to log in and give us your name, so that we may address you correctly, mama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

And what *I* am going to continue to complain about, is the arrogance that people on this forum think they have enough information to make a decision about this birth. You have no idea how much and what kind of research the mother did, you have no idea how good or bad Karen is, and you don't actually know the specifics of who decided what in this case. I maintain that Karen Carr is an excellent and capable midwife, that the family in this case did plenty of good research, and what happened to them was a horrible accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

Btw this Mama here prefers to be called Mama by her children only. To you and to any medical professional, I am their mother, or if you know my first or last name, please call me by such.

This is pretty funny, considering you are posting anonymously. You are free to log in and give us your name, so that we may address you correctly, mama.

You know, I was trying to be helpful. I just have hard time giving anyone credibility who uses words that should be used by children, especially when it is mentioned in the same sentence as "non-evidence based "medicine"". That, my friend, makes ME laugh. Now excuse me while I kindly die in a fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

Btw this Mama here prefers to be called Mama by her children only. To you and to any medical professional, I am their mother, or if you know my first or last name, please call me by such.

This is pretty funny, considering you are posting anonymously. You are free to log in and give us your name, so that we may address you correctly, mama.

Again, why do you insist that you must call people by a name they don't like? Power trip? You think you know better than other women? What is behind this insistence that you're right and they're wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

And what *I* am going to continue to complain about, is the arrogance that people on this forum think they have enough information to make a decision about this birth. You have no idea how much and what kind of research the mother did, you have no idea how good or bad Karen is, and you don't actually know the specifics of who decided what in this case. I maintain that Karen Carr is an excellent and capable midwife, that the family in this case did plenty of good research, and what happened to them was a horrible accident.

After the story of how the baby last November died and she doesn't know why, I think I have all the information I need about how good a midwife Karen Carr is. Your standards may vary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I wasn't talking about this case, although in my opinion she was negligent in not getting the mom to the hospital within 5-10 minutes of the head entrapment. But I'm the one who has to take care of the disaster once it gets to the hospital, so maybe I'm excessively conservative compared to CPMs.

I was referring to cases that I've seen here (TX), in which live babies have (barely) made it through the traumatic birth but then didn't receive the respiratory support they needed and "mysteriously" died. Yes, in my opinion that's negligence. And in both cases, the midwife was "sentenced" by other CPMs to a few months of probation and they're still out there, delivering babies, not having to tell the new moms anything about their history of negligently causing infant deaths. CPMs should be held to higher training standards than CNMs, since they're out there with no back-up, but instead they're held to much lower standards. Again, moms are free to choose whatever they like, but I'm not sure that "research" into any given CPM will really tell the whole story. "

Thanks for sharing the above info. It sounds scarily similar to what may have happened with the baby in St. Mary's County, MD.

And how can KC claim that the breech delivery was not the cause of the head entrapment in the Alexandria delivery? Without the head as a dilating wedge, that is one of the possible complications of a breech. When the presenting part delivers before the cervix is fully dilated this can lead to head entrapment.

Or was it instead a case of CPD, cephalopelvic disproportion? If so, why was this not picked up on much earlier?

You obviously do not get it, at all. YOU HAVE NO INFORMATION AT ALL regarding what happened with the baby in St. Mary's County. Can you, just for once, imagine that you just might not have some important information about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

Btw this Mama here prefers to be called Mama by her children only. To you and to any medical professional, I am their mother, or if you know my first or last name, please call me by such.

This is pretty funny, considering you are posting anonymously. You are free to log in and give us your name, so that we may address you correctly, mama.

Again, why do you insist that you must call people by a name they don't like? Power trip? You think you know better than other women? What is behind this insistence that you're right and they're wrong?

As the original personwho started using the term "Mama" here, I have to say this wasn't me who specifically called a poster Mama (though, I did giggle a bit when reading it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

Btw this Mama here prefers to be called Mama by her children only. To you and to any medical professional, I am their mother, or if you know my first or last name, please call me by such.

This is pretty funny, considering you are posting anonymously. You are free to log in and give us your name, so that we may address you correctly, mama.

Again, why do you insist that you must call people by a name they don't like? Power trip? You think you know better than other women? What is behind this insistence that you're right and they're wrong?

What's your name, then, genius?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

Btw this Mama here prefers to be called Mama by her children only. To you and to any medical professional, I am their mother, or if you know my first or last name, please call me by such.

This is pretty funny, considering you are posting anonymously. You are free to log in and give us your name, so that we may address you correctly, mama.

Again, why do you insist that you must call people by a name they don't like? Power trip? You think you know better than other women? What is behind this insistence that you're right and they're wrong?

What's your name, then, genius?

You really have to call people by names on an anonymous forum, genious? How have you been surviving the past 2 weeks?

[Anonymous]

If in your world, you have to be an educated attorney to find the strength to do what you want and not be a shrinking violet when they separate you and your spouse for a few minutes to try to convince you of something, then god be with you b/c you're a f* idiot.

Carr's own words discredit her when she admits to never knowing or following up to learn why one of her "kids" died, and figure out if she should have let EMTs take that child to the NICU (gee... I bet yes). She shows where her focus is when it's all about how things torment HER soul thereafter. She's NOT getting great reviews from ALL her former patients and it makes me wonder - when a homebirth isn't good, who is even willing to hear the story? Not the community that fears it would discredit its movement or the one she supposedly shunned to then "bring it on herself". So might the stories be missing from the interwebs? (Though I have certainly found plenty).

If most births go well no matter what, then the "things going wrong" should be the tie-breaker. For me, that means hospital. If i want extra, less "medical" support, i'll bring it with me. I wouldn't want to risk my child (or me) needing something that transfer time impedes and i CERTAINLY wouldn't want to, with all my research and all the rhetoric from both sides, end up with someone like Carr because I had no way of ever knowing that she is what she is.

I indeed have a right to choose. I also have a right for the information i gather to make this choice be valid and true, verified and bonafide, and rigulously scrutinized and accounted for via a system that tracks everything involved. Since I know that's not currently the case for home births (at least hospitals fear bad press while HB seems to feed off it!), i'll take the hospital. Thanks for the right to choose. Sorry I choose against you. Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I wasn't talking about this case, although in my opinion she was negligent in not getting the mom to the hospital within 5-10 minutes of the head entrapment. But I'm the one who has to take care of the disaster once it gets to the hospital, so maybe I'm excessively conservative compared to CPMs.

I was referring to cases that I've seen here (TX), in which live babies have (barely) made it through the traumatic birth but then didn't receive the respiratory support they needed and "mysteriously" died. Yes, in my opinion that's negligence. And in both cases, the midwife was "sentenced" by other CPMs to a few months of probation and they're still out there, delivering babies, not having to tell the new moms anything about their history of negligently causing infant deaths. CPMs should be held to higher training standards than CNMs, since they're out there with no back-up, but instead they're held to much lower standards. Again, moms are free to choose whatever they like, but I'm not sure that "research" into any given CPM will really tell the whole story. "

Thanks for sharing the above info. It sounds scarily similar to what may have happened with the baby in St. Mary's County, MD.

And how can KC claim that the breech delivery was not the cause of the head entrapment in the Alexandria delivery? Without the head as a dilating wedge, that is one of the possible complications of a breech. When the presenting part delivers before the cervix is fully dilated this can lead to head entrapment.

Or was it instead a case of CPD, cephalopelvic disproportion? If so, why was this not picked up on much earlier?

You obviously do not get it, at all. YOU HAVE NO INFORMATION AT ALL regarding what happened with the baby in St. Mary's County. Can you, just for once, imagine that you just might not have some important information about this?

I was actually referring to the baby from Alexandria who died as a result of head entrapment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

No, I've said it several times on this thread, and I was saying it again. I keep seeing this thing about mothers who homebirth doing "tons and tons of research." What kind of research? To me, research is reading primary literature about scientific experiments, but I don't think it's being used that way here. The best I can tell, mothers are expected to go to childbirth classes and talk to midwives about how they practice. But if your midwife has never had an infant with respiratory distress and doesn't take the appropriate steps quickly, it's now the mother's fault for not doing enough "research," or it's "well, babies die in the hospital too." I've seen it over and over and over, even here on this thread.

And how is your scare-mongering about hospitals not equally paternalistic and condescending to expectant mothers? I just got home from the PAS conference, where I was learning all I could about the latest studies from many countries and what they mean to practicing pediatricians. Any time a baby dies or has a bad outcome, everything is documented, there is at the very least an M&M where everyone is grilled about what happened and how it can be prevented from happening again. What does Karen Carr have to do when a baby dies, is injured, or has a near miss? Looks to me like she keeps on doing things exactly the same way, then she's "traumatized" when a birth doesn't go exactly like she thinks it should. Explain to me how this "non-evidence based medicine" is somehow superior to that that you think is going on in hospitals.

And if you really want to improve the maternal mortality rate, get prenatal care and healthcare for everyone, and throw more money at research into why women of color have so many more problems during pregnancy than other racial groups.

Take a class and check out a MW's history? You really need to sit down and just talk to HB Mamas. I can say that mine included getting my hands on every study I could find relating to my specific situatuion. It included reading about as many possible complications that I could find and was the likelyhood that they would happen. It also included extensive research into my rights as a patient and Mother (every Mama entering a hospital should know about EMTALA). I knew my MW's training and stats as well as speaking directly with past clients. Her record with the BOM was clean.

What I find ironic is how uninformed the OBs were WRT up-to-date data (I had to forgo a HB due to prematurity). As a patient, I should not have to continually correct the doctors around me (I was sad to find this in the NICU too).

You were correcting the doctors around you? Just curious, what type of "correction" did they need?

Also, how did you research your midwife's "stats", since there is no publicly available data?

[Anonymous]

Although we all came out fine and I really really loved the birth, I wasn't totally confident in homebirth after my first child's birth with Karen for various reasons. She was very caring and obviously very passionate about babies and mothers and what she does for them. I went on to have my second and third in a hospital with a CNM.

I was really surprised to read that Karen kisses mothers on the forehead. I found her to be very much hands off. Much more hands off than my hospital CNM (who in fact herself had all of her children at home).

I originally chose a homebirth after repeatedly hearing my friends coming home with induction and emergency c-section stories and not a single one was able to go unmedicated. After I had an OB tell me I was too young to have complications (I was 25) so stop asking so many questions (this is an OB who gets rave reviews from everyone else it seems) and my second OB literally tell me "oh honey, you are more than welcome to try natural childbirth if you want to, but as soon as you're ready for an epidural, we'll be there." yeah, check please!

I had to fight hard for my unmedicated hospital births and fight hard to keep my babies with me at all times (and in fact had one nurse obviously think I was an idiot for wanting to stay with my babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You complain of paternalism from a kiss and the use of an innocent term yet you continue to question and doubt the judgment and intellectual ability of Mamas who choose homebirth. Does someone need to flash their JD or the like in order to qualify as mentaly capable? I think you need to do a bit of mirror gazing.

No, I continue to complain about this embedded attitude in the homebirth community that if there's a bad outcome, if the CPM didn't do a good job, then it must be because the mother didn't do enough "research." The mother shouldn't have to do "research" to find out if her CPM is capable or not- they should all be capable, by dint of strict standards. But apparently what is good for the rest of medicine is too strict for CPMs.

No, you specifically questioned a Mama's ability. Now you are just spinning.

I disagree with your assesment of attitudes within the HB community. If anything, I see that pointed towards hospital birthing Mamas.

I have to laugh at the set of standards OBs are "held to". Using non-evidence based "medicine", bullying Mamas, intentionally separating Mamas and fathers in order to separate her from her support, not allowing doulas to the same effect.....having one of the worst maternal death rates amongst industrialized nations. Yeah...great set of standards.

Now that we know that you are affiliated with the medical community, I fully understand your complete lack of trust in a Mama's abilty to think for herself.

No, I've said it several times on this thread, and I was saying it again. I keep seeing this thing about mothers who homebirth doing "tons and tons of research." What kind of research? To me, research is reading primary literature about scientific experiments, but I don't think it's being used that way here. The best I can tell, mothers are expected to go to childbirth classes and talk to midwives about how they practice. But if your midwife has never had an infant with respiratory distress and doesn't take the appropriate steps quickly, it's now the mother's fault for not doing enough "research," or it's "well, babies die in the hospital too." I've seen it over and over and over, even here on this thread.

And how is your scare-mongering about hospitals not equally paternalistic and condescending to expectant mothers? I just got home from the PAS conference, where I was learning all I could about the latest studies from many countries and what they mean to practicing pediatricians. Any time a baby dies or has a bad outcome, everything is documented, there is at the very least an M&M where everyone is grilled about what happened and how it can be prevented from happening again. What does Karen Carr have to do when a baby dies, is injured, or has a near miss? Looks to me like she keeps on doing things exactly the same way, then she's "traumatized" when a birth doesn't go exactly like she thinks it should. Explain to me how this "non-evidence based medicine" is somehow superior to that that you think is going on in hospitals.

And if you really want to improve the maternal mortality rate, get prenatal care and healthcare for everyone, and throw more money at research into why women of color have so many more problems during pregnancy than other racial groups.

Take a class and check out a MW's history? You really need to sit down and just talk to HB Mamas. I can say that mine included getting my hands on every study I could find relating to my specific situatuion. It included reading about as many possible complications that I could find and was the likelyhood that they would happen. It also included extensive research into my rights as a patient and Mother (every Mama entering a hospital should know about EMTALA). I knew my MW's training and stats as well as speaking directly with past clients. Her record with the BOM was clean.

What I find ironic is how uninformed the OBs were WRT up-to-date data (I had to forgo a HB due to prematurity). As a patient, I should not have to continually correct the doctors around me (I was sad to find this in the NICU too).

You were correcting the doctors around you? Just curious, what type of "correction" did they need?

Also, how did you research your midwife's "stats", since there is no publicly available data?

The NICU is notorious for following non-evidence-based practices. For example, one family I worked with was only allowed to hold their preemie twins for 10 minutes a day, when ALL of the available evidence says long periods of skin-to-skin, kangaroo care improves preemies health. Kangaroo care has saved lives, but many NICUs don't allow it. Also there are practices regarding bottle vs. breast feeding, how to train preemies to latch onto the breast or prevent nipple confusion altogether, and feeding of formula vs. donated breastmilk and the use of the various human milk fortifiers that are not evidence-based, and parents really, really need to advocate for themselves on those things if they know what the evidence says.