December 17 - TJ decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I challenge anyone to listen to the full portion of last night’s meeting dealing with TJ and then argue that these 12 people have any business making policy decisions for the nation’s 10th largest school system. The level of preparedness, competence, and basic intelligence on display is just sickeningly low.

I agree... I honestly feel like our elementary school's PTA committee could probably do a better job with the decision making and understanding of issues than the SB members. It almost feels reckless that they are in charge of such a large system yet they're in over their head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I challenge anyone to listen to the full portion of last night’s meeting dealing with TJ and then argue that these 12 people have any business making policy decisions for the nation’s 10th largest school system. The level of preparedness, competence, and basic intelligence on display is just sickeningly low.

I agree... I honestly feel like our elementary school's PTA committee could probably do a better job with the decision making and understanding of issues than the SB members. It almost feels reckless that they are in charge of such a large system yet they're in over their head.

I'm just going to keep drumming on the fact that we can at least get enough signatures on the recall petitions to get them to a judge:
https://twitter.com/FcpsOpen/status/1340018202135433220

It doesn't have to be this way until 2023.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I go to an AAP Center I have to compete with those kids for the 1.5%. But if I go to private, I enter pool with the schoo to which I’m zoned?

Won’t all the kids from Justice come from private schools like Congressional?

They said it would be based on the middle school that you attend, not the base middle school to which you're assigned. So that makes me think private school kids aren't included in the 1.5% at all, but instead would get admitted from the residual county-wide pool. The goal is to boost the numbers coming from Glasgow (the MS feeder to Justice), not Congressional.

But of course they'll probably have to spend weeks now drafting FAQs so people understand what they are planning for next year and the years to come. Of course, they don't want to share too much information, because they won't want anyone "gaming" the new process!

Whoever is suing needs to add that to its claim. How can they treat kids going to private school that live next door to a kid attending the public middle school any differently in this process?

because private school students aren't a protected class

But if geographic diversity is their stated goal, their admissions standards should be based on geography of the County. Not doing so indicates the real goal is race — hence, why anyone suing should use it to prove that.

Exactly, if it was a geographic goal, scrapping a test would never be a consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I challenge anyone to listen to the full portion of last night’s meeting dealing with TJ and then argue that these 12 people have any business making policy decisions for the nation’s 10th largest school system. The level of preparedness, competence, and basic intelligence on display is just sickeningly low.

I agree... I honestly feel like our elementary school's PTA committee could probably do a better job with the decision making and understanding of issues than the SB members. It almost feels reckless that they are in charge of such a large system yet they're in over their head.

I'm just going to keep drumming on the fact that we can at least get enough signatures on the recall petitions to get them to a judge:
https://twitter.com/FcpsOpen/status/1340018202135433220

It doesn't have to be this way until 2023.

Can you share the exact language of the petitions? My sense is they are focused on the decisions around opening and closing schools, which seem like a weak basis for a recall petition unless it is simply intended to be a nuisance. No one is going to step down before 2023 just because they had to be explain to a judge why they concluded public safety warranted distance learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think the SB will get the mix they hope for. The top 1.5% at the poorer schools May end up being Asian.

Ah, but don't forget they will remove the test and last night added the "adequate improvement" clause (i.e ensuring race % numbers improve) giving the superintendant power to tweak things if it does not. Combined with the "holistic" application review that voted for, I'm not so convinced that Asians at low performing schools will necessarily be the ones getting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I go to an AAP Center I have to compete with those kids for the 1.5%. But if I go to private, I enter pool with the schoo to which I’m zoned?

Won’t all the kids from Justice come from private schools like Congressional?

They said it would be based on the middle school that you attend, not the base middle school to which you're assigned. So that makes me think private school kids aren't included in the 1.5% at all, but instead would get admitted from the residual county-wide pool. The goal is to boost the numbers coming from Glasgow (the MS feeder to Justice), not Congressional.

But of course they'll probably have to spend weeks now drafting FAQs so people understand what they are planning for next year and the years to come. Of course, they don't want to share too much information, because they won't want anyone "gaming" the new process!

Whoever is suing needs to add that to its claim. How can they treat kids going to private school that live next door to a kid attending the public middle school any differently in this process?

because private school students aren't a protected class

But if geographic diversity is their stated goal, their admissions standards should be based on geography of the County. Not doing so indicates the real goal is race — hence, why anyone suing should use it to prove that.

Exactly, if it was a geographic goal, scrapping a test would never be a consideration.

Sure it would. The highest scores on the test currently skew to kids at a half-dozen AAP center middle schools in Fairfax, Falls Church, Herndon, McLean and Vienna. Not many kids south of Route 50 and east of the Beltway do as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if I go to an AAP Center I have to compete with those kids for the 1.5%. But if I go to private, I enter pool with the schoo to which I’m zoned?

Won’t all the kids from Justice come from private schools like Congressional?

They said it would be based on the middle school that you attend, not the base middle school to which you're assigned. So that makes me think private school kids aren't included in the 1.5% at all, but instead would get admitted from the residual county-wide pool. The goal is to boost the numbers coming from Glasgow (the MS feeder to Justice), not Congressional.

But of course they'll probably have to spend weeks now drafting FAQs so people understand what they are planning for next year and the years to come. Of course, they don't want to share too much information, because they won't want anyone "gaming" the new process!

Whoever is suing needs to add that to its claim. How can they treat kids going to private school that live next door to a kid attending the public middle school any differently in this process?

because private school students aren't a protected class

But if geographic diversity is their stated goal, their admissions standards should be based on geography of the County. Not doing so indicates the real goal is race — hence, why anyone suing should use it to prove that.

Exactly, if it was a geographic goal, scrapping a test would never be a consideration.

Sure it would. The highest scores on the test currently skew to kids at a half-dozen AAP center middle schools in Fairfax, Falls Church, Herndon, McLean and Vienna. Not many kids south of Route 50 and east of the Beltway do as well.

Plus Chantilly (Rocky Run).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:1.5% from each school does not make sense without a minimum and without acknowledging centers get more kids. Are they doing away with middle school centers too?

It’s a minimum 1.5% from each middle school and that minimum means more kids from the middle schools with more 8th graders, which are usually AAP centers. They don’t care if the top 1.5% from Poe might not be in the top 20% at Carson because they have decided broader geographic representation is more important.

I give it by next year for some people to be renting in the unrepresented middle school boundaries or leaving their AAP center for 8th grade at their base middle school if it gives a better shot at TJ.

Why bother? The quality of the student body will decline and it’s not like TJ will have the same reputation for excellence.

And as a results, maybe stress will go down and the suicides will go down and the quality of life of these kids will go way up.

The current TJ product is not without massive issues. Let's look at the glass half full and focus on what will will likely improve.

My kids love “the current TJ product.” I am guessing you don’t have any there that’s why you believe the rumors about it.

I'm an Alumni so I know what the experience is like, unlike you, who only listens to 3rd hand information from your children. They are likely too afraid to tell you the truth. Most of us alumni recognize a change needs to occur. It's current parents who do not. It's not even their kids.

Why would kids be afraid to tell their parents the truth? Nonsensical. That's probably the most honest source of information a parent can get!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do they determine the top 1.5% from a middle school anyway? So many kids have a 4.0

It will not simply be based on GPA. It will be a largely subjective assessment about who they like the most for TJ.

If they were upset about the test prep firms before, just wait until those firms reverse engineer what makes a TJ applicant most likable.

Exactly. How will people trust the committee who admits the kids? Where will be the oversight there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do they determine the top 1.5% from a middle school anyway? So many kids have a 4.0

It will not simply be based on GPA. It will be a largely subjective assessment about who they like the most for TJ.

If they were upset about the test prep firms before, just wait until those firms reverse engineer what makes a TJ applicant most likable.

Exactly. How will people trust the committee who admits the kids? Where will be the oversight there?

The easiest and perhaps only way to game the system will be to send your kid to an underperforming middle school, which would likely please the SB both because the school improve and because your kid would be used to demonstrate that kids from those schools can succeed if given an chance and expand the 1.5% floor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems super simple to game.

- get an IEP/504. I’m sure there are educational advocates/psychologists that can with this.
- pupil place at one of the low yield schools for 8th grade. You don’t even need to move I guess.
- take a prep class for the SIS essay. Bonus - Use that IEP/504 for extended time

Done.

You have no clue how hard it is to get an IEP or a 504 plan. Absolutely no clue. It is not an easy process. You have to show an academic impact on the child in order to qualify for an IEP, which means that you need to have a kid who is in danger of failing a grade, so not something you want to do in 8th grade if you are trying to get into TJ. Not to mention the testing that is conducted by the school that the school falls back on. Or the meeting every three years to evaluate if the accommodations. Or the three year review with new testing to keep an IEP.

504 plans are almost as hard to get.

Look, there are parents that were willing to pay $10,000+ over the course of several years to ensure their child was admitted. (See 28% of the class of 2024 coming from one $$$ prep company). Spend that same dough on private neuropsych and an educational advocate.

Will be interesting to compare the number of IEPs amount middle schoolers this year vs in the next few years. The school board set up these incentives; people will respond.

The schools tend to not use the private tests because they know that there are parents trying to game the system. Te number of meetings that parents would have to attend, and pay an advocate to attend, would be high. I would guess that there would be the evaluation to determine if testing is needed, which is likely to come back with a no because the child is doing well in all of their classes. Then the meeting(s) with an advocate to try and get testing. Then the meeting after then testing. Then the meeting with the advocate after they determine that the kid doesn't need services. Then more meetings.

That is a lot of sunk time on a process that is not going to yield results because your child has to be doing poorly in school.

So yes, parents are willing to pay thousands of dollars for enrichment and classes, but I suspect that they will find IEPs and 504 plans very, very different. Just pop over to the Special Needs forum and take a look at what those parents are doing to get accommodations for their kids. It's not pretty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do they determine the top 1.5% from a middle school anyway? So many kids have a 4.0

It will not simply be based on GPA. It will be a largely subjective assessment about who they like the most for TJ.

If they were upset about the test prep firms before, just wait until those firms reverse engineer what makes a TJ applicant most likable.

Exactly. How will people trust the committee who admits the kids? Where will be the oversight there?

They are just setting themselves up for more litigation when it’s discovered that the “holistic reviewers” are particularly inclined to find that Asian applicants lack that “special spark” that warrants admission to TJ - which is the exact conclusion that all the reporting requirements and diversity “goals” will incentivize the reviewers to reach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do they determine the top 1.5% from a middle school anyway? So many kids have a 4.0

It will not simply be based on GPA. It will be a largely subjective assessment about who they like the most for TJ.

If they were upset about the test prep firms before, just wait until those firms reverse engineer what makes a TJ applicant most likable.

Exactly. How will people trust the committee who admits the kids? Where will be the oversight there?

They are just setting themselves up for more litigation when it’s discovered that the “holistic reviewers” are particularly inclined to find that Asian applicants lack that “special spark” that warrants admission to TJ - which is the exact conclusion that all the reporting requirements and diversity “goals” will incentivize the reviewers to reach.

What "experience factors" is a normal white kid going to meet. At least as a first generation Asian-American you have a story to tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:What is FCPS's plan to address additional overcrowding at high schools that will see enrollment increases if TJ switches to a lottery? The overcrowded McLean and Chantilly pyramids currently send the most kids to TJ, and will see an influx of students under a lottery, but FCPS isn't planning for an addition at either school. Conversely, West Potomac and Justice are among the pyramids that send the fewest kids to TJ, and will send more under a lottery, but FCPS is building expensive additions at both schools. FCPS planning is a mess.

2020-21 TJ students by base high school pyramid:

McLean 190
Chantilly 155
Langley 152
Oakton 140
Westfield 92
Woodson 81
Madison 70
Marshall 68
Fairfax 48
South Lakes 47
Lake Braddock 42
Centreville 40
Annandale 39
Robinson 33
Falls Church 25
West Springfield 24
Edison 21
Hayfield 21
Herndon 21
South County 21
West Potomac 19
Justice 11
Lewis 11
Mount Vernon 7

Source: https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/facilities-planning-future/facilities-and-membership-dashboards

Wow. McLean and Chantilly (who I think are currently the most overcrowded HS in FCPS without a plan in place) really needs some help now - Langley might be able to absorb.

strange how the top and bottom list correspond so well to school affluence. it's almost like TJ's detractors hadve a point

Or the rigor of the HS.

Or the education of the parents. Well educated parents care about their kids’ education and move to better school districts. Not everything is about money. Or race. It may be about education!

Which is tied to money and race but nice try!

No there are many middle class/working class Asian families who don't have lot of money who care about their kids' education willing to make economic sacrifices. Many pretend they don't get this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This seems super simple to game.

- get an IEP/504. I’m sure there are educational advocates/psychologists that can with this.
- pupil place at one of the low yield schools for 8th grade. You don’t even need to move I guess.
- take a prep class for the SIS essay. Bonus - Use that IEP/504 for extended time

Done.

Then, we will definitely increase white students at TJ since its the white parents who pay to get the fake diagnosis to get extra time/accommodations for homework, tests etc. in HS and in college. TJ Blues next?