"I support the teachers" people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it because I'm moving all my kids to private in January. It took a lot of time to find spaces and my oldest is going to boarding school that's fully open but WTU can keep the schools closed forever as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then someone will notice how outdated our public school education is and we'll get vouchers which will help me with these private tuitions.

Go ahead, keep the schools closed. Make my day.

Translation: "I've got mine, screw all others, especially if it helps me get even more!" Are you part of the Trump family?

I'm not the poster you responded to, but how is the PP screwing all others? By doing what is best for her family? I was not aware that there is a societal obligation to sacrifice one's children so that certain segments of the workforce can remain as free of risk as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP question: for how long? I am OK with my kids staying at home the whole school year. I am enjoying my extra time with them. They'll probably get a lot more years of in-person schooling later on in the future, so I'm good with this year at home.

I'm ok with distance learning all year if necessary. My mother-in-law grew up during World War II and didn't go to school for years. She is a very solid intelligent person that grew up to be a chemist. It will be fine.

I used to be a teacher in Ward 8 and am tired of people using at-risk students as a pawns in their arguments and stating that teachers don't care. Ridiculous. The achievement gap has been an issue in the District for decades and its wouldn't have been resolved by this plan. There needs to be other interventions and investments.

I'm impressed by this argument. Truly impressed. You managed to string together SO MANY bad arguments into so few sentences! Like, just look at this list!

1. I knew someone who turned out okay with fewer years of schooling 80 years ago, ergo all students today will be fine.
2. Saying you care about at-risk students is evidence you don't care about at-risk students.
3. The achievement gap has always existed, and therefore we should not care whether it is increasing
4. Going back in person, won't fix the achievement gap, so we should just not do it.
5. We should do something else. I don't know what. But not this.

I really have to hand it to you. That was a truly efficient way to make many bad arguments all at the same time.

+1

Teachers are constantly suggesting that plans should be discarded if they are not perfect solutions to all educational problems, which is just another way of ensuring that no progress can be made.

This! They're pointing at anything and everything and saying all of society's ills must be cured before they go back to work!

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it because I'm moving all my kids to private in January. It took a lot of time to find spaces and my oldest is going to boarding school that's fully open but WTU can keep the schools closed forever as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then someone will notice how outdated our public school education is and we'll get vouchers which will help me with these private tuitions.

Go ahead, keep the schools closed. Make my day.

Translation: "I've got mine, screw all others, especially if it helps me get even more!" Are you part of the Trump family?

I'm not the poster you responded to, but how is the PP screwing all others? By doing what is best for her family? I was not aware that there is a societal obligation to sacrifice one's children so that certain segments of the workforce can remain as free of risk as possible.

Oh, you completely misunderstood my post. I'm in favor of fully reopening schools. But she is expressing her willingness to screw others by hoping WTU will keep schools closed forever so that the public education system can collapse and she can get a voucher to help pay for her kids' private school. Did that not rub you the wrong way? I have no issue with her putting her kids in private, but to hope that things go as badly as possible for those who can't afford to do so in order to improve her financial situation is truly despicable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To answer OP question: for how long? I am OK with my kids staying at home the whole school year. I am enjoying my extra time with them. They'll probably get a lot more years of in-person schooling later on in the future, so I'm good with this year at home.

I'm ok with distance learning all year if necessary. My mother-in-law grew up during World War II and didn't go to school for years. She is a very solid intelligent person that grew up to be a chemist. It will be fine.

I used to be a teacher in Ward 8 and am tired of people using at-risk students as a pawns in their arguments and stating that teachers don't care. Ridiculous. The achievement gap has been an issue in the District for decades and its wouldn't have been resolved by this plan. There needs to be other interventions and investments.

I'm impressed by this argument. Truly impressed. You managed to string together SO MANY bad arguments into so few sentences! Like, just look at this list!

1. I knew someone who turned out okay with fewer years of schooling 80 years ago, ergo all students today will be fine.
2. Saying you care about at-risk students is evidence you don't care about at-risk students.
3. The achievement gap has always existed, and therefore we should not care whether it is increasing
4. Going back in person, won't fix the achievement gap, so we should just not do it.
5. We should do something else. I don't know what. But not this.

I really have to hand it to you. That was a truly efficient way to make many bad arguments all at the same time.

+1

Teachers are constantly suggesting that plans should be discarded if they are not perfect solutions to all educational problems, which is just another way of ensuring that no progress can be made.

This! They're pointing at anything and everything and saying all of society's ills must be cured before they go back to work!

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

Extremely well put.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it because I'm moving all my kids to private in January. It took a lot of time to find spaces and my oldest is going to boarding school that's fully open but WTU can keep the schools closed forever as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then someone will notice how outdated our public school education is and we'll get vouchers which will help me with these private tuitions.

Go ahead, keep the schools closed. Make my day.

Translation: "I've got mine, screw all others, especially if it helps me get even more!" Are you part of the Trump family?

I'm not the poster you responded to, but how is the PP screwing all others? By doing what is best for her family? I was not aware that there is a societal obligation to sacrifice one's children so that certain segments of the workforce can remain as free of risk as possible.

Oh, you completely misunderstood my post. I'm in favor of fully reopening schools. But she is expressing her willingness to screw others by hoping WTU will keep schools closed forever so that the public education system can collapse and she can get a voucher to help pay for her kids' private school. Did that not rub you the wrong way? I have no issue with her putting her kids in private, but to hope that things go as badly as possible for those who can't afford to do so in order to improve her financial situation is truly despicable.

Got it. Sorry, I misunderstood. As a not wealthy liberal and a private school parent before the pandemic due to many of the issues discussed in this thread, I guess I'm defensive about statements that make it sound like it is uncaring and elitist to try to find an educational environment that works for your kids and your family. This is so difficult for everyone!

[Anonymous]

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

This is well-put. If we all start this discussion in agreement that in-person learning works best for all students, then we should end the discussion in agreement that long-term DL does not work for all students. we agree. If we want to decide that the safety of adults in school buildings is more important than educating children due to the circumstances of the pandemic, then we should be honest about it. We are sorry that we are providing a sub-par educational experience for your children, but we think the risk of getting sick outweighs any and all concerns about education. That way, there is nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it because I'm moving all my kids to private in January. It took a lot of time to find spaces and my oldest is going to boarding school that's fully open but WTU can keep the schools closed forever as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then someone will notice how outdated our public school education is and we'll get vouchers which will help me with these private tuitions.

Go ahead, keep the schools closed. Make my day.

Translation: "I've got mine, screw all others, especially if it helps me get even more!" Are you part of the Trump family?

I'm not the poster you responded to, but how is the PP screwing all others? By doing what is best for her family? I was not aware that there is a societal obligation to sacrifice one's children so that certain segments of the workforce can remain as free of risk as possible.

Oh, you completely misunderstood my post. I'm in favor of fully reopening schools. But she is expressing her willingness to screw others by hoping WTU will keep schools closed forever so that the public education system can collapse and she can get a voucher to help pay for her kids' private school. Did that not rub you the wrong way? I have no issue with her putting her kids in private, but to hope that things go as badly as possible for those who can't afford to do so in order to improve her financial situation is truly despicable.

Got it. Sorry, I misunderstood. As a not wealthy liberal and a private school parent before the pandemic due to many of the issues discussed in this thread, I guess I'm defensive about statements that make it sound like it is uncaring and elitist to try to find an educational environment that works for your kids and your family. This is so difficult for everyone!

You are wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

This is well-put. If we all start this discussion in agreement that in-person learning works best for all students, then we should end the discussion in agreement that long-term DL does not work for all students. we agree. If we want to decide that the safety of adults in school buildings is more important than educating children due to the circumstances of the pandemic, then we should be honest about it. We are sorry that we are providing a sub-par educational experience for your children, but we think the risk of getting sick outweighs any and all concerns about education. That way, there is nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

Except it doesn't work best for all kids and we are in a pandemic. Which part of pandemic do you not understand? In person works best for most parents. It provides free child care. We had a really bad teacher last year. Covid was a relief, sadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it because I'm moving all my kids to private in January. It took a lot of time to find spaces and my oldest is going to boarding school that's fully open but WTU can keep the schools closed forever as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then someone will notice how outdated our public school education is and we'll get vouchers which will help me with these private tuitions.

Go ahead, keep the schools closed. Make my day.

That's not about education in your home, its about child care and you don't want to take care of your kids. Be real.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

This is well-put. If we all start this discussion in agreement that in-person learning works best for all students, then we should end the discussion in agreement that long-term DL does not work for all students. we agree. If we want to decide that the safety of adults in school buildings is more important than educating children due to the circumstances of the pandemic, then we should be honest about it. We are sorry that we are providing a sub-par educational experience for your children, but we think the risk of getting sick outweighs any and all concerns about education. That way, there is nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

Well, I would say we can still argue about the ethical merits of prioritizing the interests of adults over those of children, and more broadly, the interests of the elderly over the young. It is an important issue that should be at the core of our larger discussion about how to live with this virus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with it because I'm moving all my kids to private in January. It took a lot of time to find spaces and my oldest is going to boarding school that's fully open but WTU can keep the schools closed forever as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then someone will notice how outdated our public school education is and we'll get vouchers which will help me with these private tuitions.

Go ahead, keep the schools closed. Make my day.

That's not about education in your home, its about child care and you don't want to take care of your kids. Be real.

DP. Now this is hilarious: here's a WTU troll who picks the wrong post to get in her talking point about childcare as a complete non sequitur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

This is well-put. If we all start this discussion in agreement that in-person learning works best for all students, then we should end the discussion in agreement that long-term DL does not work for all students. we agree. If we want to decide that the safety of adults in school buildings is more important than educating children due to the circumstances of the pandemic, then we should be honest about it. We are sorry that we are providing a sub-par educational experience for your children, but we think the risk of getting sick outweighs any and all concerns about education. That way, there is nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

Well, I would say we can still argue about the ethical merits of prioritizing the interests of adults over those of children, and more broadly, the interests of the elderly over the young. It is an important issue that should be at the core of our larger discussion about how to live with this virus.

Absolutely, there is room for disagreement in how we prioritize interests, without being dismissive of the any concerns about risks, whether they are health risks or risk to the education or development of children. You and I can have a meaningful discussion about the ethics of how these interests are prioritized Absolutely. I just wish more people would use undisputed facts to frame the analysis.

PS - I realize that the childcare person is a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

This is well-put. If we all start this discussion in agreement that in-person learning works best for all students, then we should end the discussion in agreement that long-term DL does not work for all students. we agree. If we want to decide that the safety of adults in school buildings is more important than educating children due to the circumstances of the pandemic, then we should be honest about it. We are sorry that we are providing a sub-par educational experience for your children, but we think the risk of getting sick outweighs any and all concerns about education. That way, there is nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

Except it doesn't work best for all kids and we are in a pandemic. Which part of pandemic do you not understand? In person works best for most parents. It provides free child care. We had a really bad teacher last year. Covid was a relief, sadly.

DP. In person works best for the VAST majority of kids, your anecdotal exception notwithstanding. Therefore, even during a pandemic, kids need to go to school and have the right to go to school, especially when schools have not proven to significantly increase community spread. There is a consensus about this fact in Europe among experts, teachers, and parents. Why not in the US?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

This is well-put. If we all start this discussion in agreement that in-person learning works best for all students, then we should end the discussion in agreement that long-term DL does not work for all students. we agree. If we want to decide that the safety of adults in school buildings is more important than educating children due to the circumstances of the pandemic, then we should be honest about it. We are sorry that we are providing a sub-par educational experience for your children, but we think the risk of getting sick outweighs any and all concerns about education. That way, there is nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

Well, I would say we can still argue about the ethical merits of prioritizing the interests of adults over those of children, and more broadly, the interests of the elderly over the young. It is an important issue that should be at the core of our larger discussion about how to live with this virus.

Absolutely, there is room for disagreement in how we prioritize interests, without being dismissive of the any concerns about risks, whether they are health risks or risk to the education or development of children. You and I can have a meaningful discussion about the ethics of how these interests are prioritized Absolutely. I just wish more people would use undisputed facts to frame the analysis.

PS - I realize that the childcare person is a troll.

The problem is that the question how significant the risk to the non-elderly teacher without comorbidities actually is isn't a matter of undisputed facts. To the contrary, there is a lot of dispute about that. I think we can all agree that the risk to teachers is not zero, but evidently people cannot agree how big it actually is. So it's not quite as easy to boil it down to the questions of interests and ethics outlined above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And the constant pretending that school's only role is to provide a method for a teacher to broadcast information to students as though teaching and not learning was the more important activity. That it's childrens' and parents' fault if the kids aren't effectively learning in this situation. That schools have no other social roles, including community health, civic education, socialized daycare, socialization, community building and integration, etc.

No. Schools are simply a method for teachers to teach. And if kids aren't learning, well, it doesn't matter if the teachers say they're working hard enough.

This is well-put. If we all start this discussion in agreement that in-person learning works best for all students, then we should end the discussion in agreement that long-term DL does not work for all students. we agree. If we want to decide that the safety of adults in school buildings is more important than educating children due to the circumstances of the pandemic, then we should be honest about it. We are sorry that we are providing a sub-par educational experience for your children, but we think the risk of getting sick outweighs any and all concerns about education. That way, there is nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

Well, I would say we can still argue about the ethical merits of prioritizing the interests of adults over those of children, and more broadly, the interests of the elderly over the young. It is an important issue that should be at the core of our larger discussion about how to live with this virus.

Absolutely, there is room for disagreement in how we prioritize interests, without being dismissive of the any concerns about risks, whether they are health risks or risk to the education or development of children. You and I can have a meaningful discussion about the ethics of how these interests are prioritized Absolutely. I just wish more people would use undisputed facts to frame the analysis.

PS - I realize that the childcare person is a troll.

The problem is that the question how significant the risk to the non-elderly teacher without comorbidities actually is isn't a matter of undisputed facts. To the contrary, there is a lot of dispute about that. I think we can all agree that the risk to teachers is not zero, but evidently people cannot agree how big it actually is. So it's not quite as easy to boil it down to the questions of interests and ethics outlined above.

I guess that's true. However, not every teacher will get COVID and even those who get COVID may not get sick. Every student is impacted in some way by not going to school. At least that's one way of looking at it.