Official Abortion Thread

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:A cancer cell in a man or woman is human life. It's alive, it's made of human DNA. Maybe your lifestyle choices caused it - so why should you be allowed to pursue medical treatment?

An embryo cannot exist without being completely and totally physically dependent on a woman - therefore it is not a "being" - it has no capacity to independently exist. It is therefore not an individual.

By all means make your own moral/religious decisions for yourself, but to force any person to remain pregnant and to give birth, is to take away HER sovereignty. But we all know white males in America don't believe women should have sovereignty in the first place.

Cancer cells differ from normal cells in many ways that allow them to grow out of control and become invasive. One important difference is that cancer cells are less specialized than normal cells. That is, whereas normal cells mature into very distinct cell types with specific functions, cancer cells do not.

Cancer is a broad term. It describes the disease that results when cellular changes cause the uncontrolled growth and division of cells.

Most of the body's cells have specific functions and fixed lifespans. While it may sound like a bad thing, cell death is part of a natural and beneficial phenomenon called apoptosis.

Human embryos have a specific function: life.

There are different categories of cancer cell, defined according to the cell type from which they originate.[2]

Carcinoma, the majority of cancer cells are epithelial in origin, beginning in the membranous tissues that line the surfaces of the body.
Leukaemia, originate in the tissues responsible for producing new blood cells, most commonly in the bone marrow.
Lymphoma and myeloma, derived from cells of the immune system.
Sarcoma, originating in connective tissue, including fat, muscle and bone.
Central nervous system, derived from cells of the body and spinal cord.
Mesothelioma, originating in the mesothelium; the lining of body cavities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_cell

Any way you want to spin it, an embryo is still not a human being. If cannot exist and function to "life" within its own cellular development, alone or by itself. It is not a person. It is not a being.

The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]

Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M?ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]

Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

Why do people think human life does not begin at conception?

The life cycle of mammals begins when a sperm enters an egg.”
Okada et al., A role for the elongator complex in zygotic paternal genome demethylation, NATURE 463:554 (Jan. 28, 2010)

Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoon) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).”

Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.


I expect you to be an anti-vaxxer, flat earther, climate change denier, as well.

You are denying basic science and have no shame.

It's cute how Trumpsters suddenly believe in science.

It’s cute how you suddenly don’t!

Who said I don't? People who believe in science know there are nuances and multiple theories. Just quoting someone doesn't mean that it is an opinion of fact set in stone. Cherry-picking and copy and paste doesn't make you suddenly intelligent, or an authority. Cute to watch, though.

Refute them.

The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

(This keeps getting deleted)

You can find a Human/Medical Embryology expert/doctor/textbook to refute that human life doesn’t begin and conception?

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.

No one is saying that most human zygotes don't have the potential to become persons some day. We are saying that a zygote is not yet a person. You're being incredibly dense.

So you can murder a human being but not a person?

Not pp. but no, you cannot murder a human being or a person. Neither of which is applicable to zygotes, as they are neither.

A human zygote is a human being in its earliest stage of development on the continuum of human development.

Human development is a continuous process. At each stage- it’s a human.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will someone show me the specific legislation that makes Plan B, birth control and IUDs illegal in the AL bill? Someone made the allegation above and I am interested to be it.

The Alabama bill establishes personhood at fertilization. Plan B and IUDs function because they prevent implantation following fertilization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.

Even if the “proper environment” is unwilling.

The proper environment for a human baby to develop is it’s mother’s uterus and body.

If the mom is unwilling, she should abstain or use birth control.

I get the feeling here women resent being a woman and dislike their own children.

It’s both sad and and exercise in denial at the same time. If you are intelligent and educated, prevent pregnancy. If you want to pretend you cannot have a child, don’t be surprised when you end up pregnant. It’s not a mystery process.

You can choose to abstain or use birth control, but you don't have the right to dictate that to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.

Even if the “proper environment” is unwilling.

The proper environment for a human baby to develop is it’s mother’s uterus and body.

If the mom is unwilling, she should abstain or use birth control.

I get the feeling here women resent being a woman and dislike their own children.

It’s both sad and and exercise in denial at the same time. If you are intelligent and educated, prevent pregnancy. If you want to pretend you cannot have a child, don’t be surprised when you end up pregnant. It’s not a mystery process.

This is the kind of sh!t my relatives left Pakistan for. So yeah. We're like Pakistan in our mentality about women and their bodies. That's your goal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.

Even if the “proper environment” is unwilling.

The proper environment for a human baby to develop is it’s mother’s uterus and body.

If the mom is unwilling, she should abstain or use birth control.

I get the feeling here women resent being a woman and dislike their own children.

It’s both sad and and exercise in denial at the same time. If you are intelligent and educated, prevent pregnancy. If you want to pretend you cannot have a child, don’t be surprised when you end up pregnant. It’s not a mystery process.

This is the kind of sh!t my relatives left Pakistan for. So yeah. We're like Pakistan in our mentality about women and their bodies. That's your goal?

You want to return to Pakistan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will someone show me the specific legislation that makes Plan B, birth control and IUDs illegal in the AL bill? Someone made the allegation above and I am interested to be it.

I did a very quick run through of the Alabama bill, and I don't think it's in there. The news stories I saw along these lines seem to reference the Ohio legislation.

[Anonymous]

A Gannett online source claims the bill includes exceptions for:

-Endangerment of the mother's life,
-fetal anomaly that would result in death after birth or stillbirth,
-When mental illness could lead to the death of the mother or child.

I don't know what to believe anymore because I can't believe VA lawmakers even considered a bill allowing abortion through birth.

I hate this issue and wish both sides would use some common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.

Even if the “proper environment” is unwilling.

The proper environment for a human baby to develop is it’s mother’s uterus and body.

If the mom is unwilling, she should abstain or use birth control.

I get the feeling here women resent being a woman and dislike their own children.

It’s both sad and and exercise in denial at the same time. If you are intelligent and educated, prevent pregnancy. If you want to pretend you cannot have a child, don’t be surprised when you end up pregnant. It’s not a mystery process.

How does one abstain from rape or incest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop.

Even if the “proper environment” is unwilling.

The proper environment for a human baby to develop is it’s mother’s uterus and body.

If the mom is unwilling, she should abstain or use birth control.

I get the feeling here women resent being a woman and dislike their own children.

It’s both sad and and exercise in denial at the same time. If you are intelligent and educated, prevent pregnancy. If you want to pretend you cannot have a child, don’t be surprised when you end up pregnant. It’s not a mystery process.

This is the kind of sh!t my relatives left Pakistan for. So yeah. We're like Pakistan in our mentality about women and their bodies. That's your goal?

You want to return to Pakistan?

Don't deflect, as that's not remotely what I said. We're regressing into the kinds of antiquated attitudes towards women what we (supposedly) think are inferior. But we're not. Is that the path you want for this country? To be like places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi, etc? Where we don't trust women to be autonomous, sovereign persons? Because that's what the Christian right is arguing for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will someone show me the specific legislation that makes Plan B, birth control and IUDs illegal in the AL bill? Someone made the allegation above and I am interested to be it.

As with all legislation, it rests in the interpretation, namely whether preventing implantation of a fertilized egg is considered abortion or not. Plan B functions in this way and at least some IUDs (or all IUDs according to the abortion fanatics). Right now we have law makers who are categorically ignorant of biology and news media using graphics that illustrate the illegality of abortion before fertilization even occurs, so that's a nuance that isn't settled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will someone show me the specific legislation that makes Plan B, birth control and IUDs illegal in the AL bill? Someone made the allegation above and I am interested to be it.

I did a very quick run through of the Alabama bill, and I don't think it's in there. The news stories I saw along these lines seem to reference the Ohio legislation.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will someone show me the specific legislation that makes Plan B, birth control and IUDs illegal in the AL bill? Someone made the allegation above and I am interested to be it.

As with all legislation, it rests in the interpretation, namely whether preventing implantation of a fertilized egg is considered abortion or not. Plan B functions in this way and at least some IUDs (or all IUDs according to the abortion fanatics). Right now we have law makers who are categorically ignorant of biology and news media using graphics that illustrate the illegality of abortion before fertilization even occurs, so that's a nuance that isn't settled.

Could =/= Should

When someone makes a statement that the bill MAKES IUDs and some birth control pills illegal, you better be able to back that up.

[Anonymous]

if you can even interpret a bill that way, it is poorly written.

And should NOT be made law.

I am so tired of ignorant fools making legislation about my internal organs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will someone show me the specific legislation that makes Plan B, birth control and IUDs illegal in the AL bill? Someone made the allegation above and I am interested to be it.

As with all legislation, it rests in the interpretation, namely whether preventing implantation of a fertilized egg is considered abortion or not. Plan B functions in this way and at least some IUDs (or all IUDs according to the abortion fanatics). Right now we have law makers who are categorically ignorant of biology and news media using graphics that illustrate the illegality of abortion before fertilization even occurs, so that's a nuance that isn't settled.

Could =/= Should

When someone makes a statement that the bill MAKES IUDs and some birth control pills illegal, you better be able to back that up.

The Alabama bill defines abortion as “The use or prescription of any instrument, medicine, drug, or any other substance or device with the intent to terminate the pregnancy of a woman known to be pregnant with knowledge that the termination by those means will with reasonable likelihood cause the death of the unborn child.” That sounds like Plan B to me.

[Anonymous]

Then condoms and pulling out are also illegal using this interpretation.

Use your heads people.