Do you like Taylor Swift?

[Anonymous]

I hope the men who are tired of seeing her are getting mentally prepared. I think they might show Taylor Swift 4-5 times during the super bowl. Don't neglect your self-care, guys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Ok, you seriously need to back away from Taylor Swift if it's triggering you this much. She can sing about anything she wants and doesn't need your permission to do so. If you don't like her/her music, that's one thing and perfectly valid. But when you go to this much trouble to tell us you don't like her, it's clearly just a you problem.

Also, you clearly didn't listen to the entire song. But no worries. She sings about her anger just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

Ha - exactly! My 20-ish daughter and I blast that song (TSMWEL) in the car and just belt it out. Very therapeutic.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Precisely this. She can express herself any damn way she pleases.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She made playlists of her songs on Apple Music/Spotify for each of the 5 stages of grief. “You Don’t Get to Tell Me About Sad” is the anger playlist.

Seriously though: “Don’t be too angry.” “No, wait, be angry or you’re inauthentic.” “No, not like that, perform anger the way I think it should sound.”

Who does this to male performers?

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a longtime Taylor Swift fan who considers herself a Swiftie, I must say I am quite disappointed by the revelations about the extent of her collusion with Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively in the smear campaign against Justin Baldoni and the insidious attempt to steal the intellectual property rights of the Colleen Hoover book.

I mindlessly consumed the narrative Taylor told about herself as a perpetual innocent ingénue who is a victim to the machinations of evil Hollywood types. Color me truly surprised to find that she is one of the worst. For the first time, I am glad I did not attend the Eras tour.

Oh, please. Go back to the Blake Lively thread.

[Anonymous]

The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived, Eras Tour, Paris Night 1

https://www.tiktok.com/@thatskami/video/7367122129659219233

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Oh jeez- of course she has the “right” to express her anger how she wants to. Duh- I just never hear the passion of say Adele’s hurt or Alanis’ anger in her voice. To ME, it isn’t there. She just doesn’t let herself get into her songs. And yes, I am only me, but this thread is asking if I (and you) like Taylor Swift. And I am explaining that she doens’t appeal to me and trying to figure out why. When I listen to her, I want to tell her to actually SING about that, not just whisper it away. I hear hurt, meanness and woe, not anger. Like she lashes out, but needs to do it sweetly rather than angrily. Woven into that is the damper of misogyny.

Of course she gets to express herself how she (or really how her fans want her to if you listen to her describe her plight in Ms. Americana) wants to. That is the last thing i would want to say to another person, that you should express something ONLY a certain way. But as a listener, I also can say that I don’t hear very much anger or passion in her songs. To me, she sounds like she is holding back and so she appeals less to me than other artists.

DP. Of course you can interpret her work any way you choose, but since you brought up "misogyny" - it's kind of ironic that you feel she should emote in a certain way, or else she couldn't possibly actually be angry. That's like the guy who tells a woman to "smile!" except you're telling her to... scream, shout, wail, cry? Who knows. She's expressing her anger the way *she* expresses it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Oh jeez- of course she has the “right” to express her anger how she wants to. Duh- I just never hear the passion of say Adele’s hurt or Alanis’ anger in her voice. To ME, it isn’t there. She just doesn’t let herself get into her songs. And yes, I am only me, but this thread is asking if I (and you) like Taylor Swift. And I am explaining that she doens’t appeal to me and trying to figure out why. When I listen to her, I want to tell her to actually SING about that, not just whisper it away. I hear hurt, meanness and woe, not anger. Like she lashes out, but needs to do it sweetly rather than angrily. Woven into that is the damper of misogyny.

Of course she gets to express herself how she (or really how her fans want her to if you listen to her describe her plight in Ms. Americana) wants to. That is the last thing i would want to say to another person, that you should express something ONLY a certain way. But as a listener, I also can say that I don’t hear very much anger or passion in her songs. To me, she sounds like she is holding back and so she appeals less to me than other artists.

DP. Of course you can interpret her work any way you choose, but since you brought up "misogyny" - it's kind of ironic that you feel she should emote in a certain way, or else she couldn't possibly actually be angry. That's like the guy who tells a woman to "smile!" except you're telling her to... scream, shout, wail, cry? Who knows. She's expressing her anger the way *she* expresses it.

Again, not what I am saying. I’m not telling her HOW to feel. I’m definitely not talking to her except in my head and I have full confidence that anything I type here has zero effect on her. Either way, I don’t think pointing out unhealthy expression of anger is a misogynistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Oh jeez- of course she has the “right” to express her anger how she wants to. Duh- I just never hear the passion of say Adele’s hurt or Alanis’ anger in her voice. To ME, it isn’t there. She just doesn’t let herself get into her songs. And yes, I am only me, but this thread is asking if I (and you) like Taylor Swift. And I am explaining that she doens’t appeal to me and trying to figure out why. When I listen to her, I want to tell her to actually SING about that, not just whisper it away. I hear hurt, meanness and woe, not anger. Like she lashes out, but needs to do it sweetly rather than angrily. Woven into that is the damper of misogyny.

Of course she gets to express herself how she (or really how her fans want her to if you listen to her describe her plight in Ms. Americana) wants to. That is the last thing i would want to say to another person, that you should express something ONLY a certain way. But as a listener, I also can say that I don’t hear very much anger or passion in her songs. To me, she sounds like she is holding back and so she appeals less to me than other artists.

DP. Of course you can interpret her work any way you choose, but since you brought up "misogyny" - it's kind of ironic that you feel she should emote in a certain way, or else she couldn't possibly actually be angry. That's like the guy who tells a woman to "smile!" except you're telling her to... scream, shout, wail, cry? Who knows. She's expressing her anger the way *she* expresses it.

Again, not what I am saying. I’m not telling her HOW to feel. I’m definitely not talking to her except in my head and I have full confidence that anything I type here has zero effect on her. Either way, I don’t think pointing out unhealthy expression of anger is a misogynistic.

And you're the arbiter of what's a healthy expression of anger? And you can't see that suggesting that there is such a universal thing for women (women only apparently) is in itself misogynistic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Oh jeez- of course she has the “right” to express her anger how she wants to. Duh- I just never hear the passion of say Adele’s hurt or Alanis’ anger in her voice. To ME, it isn’t there. She just doesn’t let herself get into her songs. And yes, I am only me, but this thread is asking if I (and you) like Taylor Swift. And I am explaining that she doens’t appeal to me and trying to figure out why. When I listen to her, I want to tell her to actually SING about that, not just whisper it away. I hear hurt, meanness and woe, not anger. Like she lashes out, but needs to do it sweetly rather than angrily. Woven into that is the damper of misogyny.

Of course she gets to express herself how she (or really how her fans want her to if you listen to her describe her plight in Ms. Americana) wants to. That is the last thing i would want to say to another person, that you should express something ONLY a certain way. But as a listener, I also can say that I don’t hear very much anger or passion in her songs. To me, she sounds like she is holding back and so she appeals less to me than other artists.

DP. Of course you can interpret her work any way you choose, but since you brought up "misogyny" - it's kind of ironic that you feel she should emote in a certain way, or else she couldn't possibly actually be angry. That's like the guy who tells a woman to "smile!" except you're telling her to... scream, shout, wail, cry? Who knows. She's expressing her anger the way *she* expresses it.

Again, not what I am saying. I’m not telling her HOW to feel. I’m definitely not talking to her except in my head and I have full confidence that anything I type here has zero effect on her. Either way, I don’t think pointing out unhealthy expression of anger is a misogynistic.

"Unhealthy expression of anger"? What? On the contrary, I find the most effective expressions of anger to be calm and in control, not screaming at the top of one's lungs. It really is strange that you feel you can dictate how anyone (man OR woman) chooses to express themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Oh jeez- of course she has the “right” to express her anger how she wants to. Duh- I just never hear the passion of say Adele’s hurt or Alanis’ anger in her voice. To ME, it isn’t there. She just doesn’t let herself get into her songs. And yes, I am only me, but this thread is asking if I (and you) like Taylor Swift. And I am explaining that she doens’t appeal to me and trying to figure out why. When I listen to her, I want to tell her to actually SING about that, not just whisper it away. I hear hurt, meanness and woe, not anger. Like she lashes out, but needs to do it sweetly rather than angrily. Woven into that is the damper of misogyny.

Of course she gets to express herself how she (or really how her fans want her to if you listen to her describe her plight in Ms. Americana) wants to. That is the last thing i would want to say to another person, that you should express something ONLY a certain way. But as a listener, I also can say that I don’t hear very much anger or passion in her songs. To me, she sounds like she is holding back and so she appeals less to me than other artists.

DP. Of course you can interpret her work any way you choose, but since you brought up "misogyny" - it's kind of ironic that you feel she should emote in a certain way, or else she couldn't possibly actually be angry. That's like the guy who tells a woman to "smile!" except you're telling her to... scream, shout, wail, cry? Who knows. She's expressing her anger the way *she* expresses it.

Again, not what I am saying. I’m not telling her HOW to feel. I’m definitely not talking to her except in my head and I have full confidence that anything I type here has zero effect on her. Either way, I don’t think pointing out unhealthy expression of anger is a misogynistic.

And you're the arbiter of what's a healthy expression of anger? And you can't see that suggesting that there is such a universal thing for women (women only apparently) is in itself misogynistic?

Exactly. One of the strangest takes I've ever come across.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Oh jeez- of course she has the “right” to express her anger how she wants to. Duh- I just never hear the passion of say Adele’s hurt or Alanis’ anger in her voice. To ME, it isn’t there. She just doesn’t let herself get into her songs. And yes, I am only me, but this thread is asking if I (and you) like Taylor Swift. And I am explaining that she doens’t appeal to me and trying to figure out why. When I listen to her, I want to tell her to actually SING about that, not just whisper it away. I hear hurt, meanness and woe, not anger. Like she lashes out, but needs to do it sweetly rather than angrily. Woven into that is the damper of misogyny.

Of course she gets to express herself how she (or really how her fans want her to if you listen to her describe her plight in Ms. Americana) wants to. That is the last thing i would want to say to another person, that you should express something ONLY a certain way. But as a listener, I also can say that I don’t hear very much anger or passion in her songs. To me, she sounds like she is holding back and so she appeals less to me than other artists.

DP. Of course you can interpret her work any way you choose, but since you brought up "misogyny" - it's kind of ironic that you feel she should emote in a certain way, or else she couldn't possibly actually be angry. That's like the guy who tells a woman to "smile!" except you're telling her to... scream, shout, wail, cry? Who knows. She's expressing her anger the way *she* expresses it.

Again, not what I am saying. I’m not telling her HOW to feel. I’m definitely not talking to her except in my head and I have full confidence that anything I type here has zero effect on her. Either way, I don’t think pointing out unhealthy expression of anger is a misogynistic.

"Unhealthy expression of anger"? What? On the contrary, I find the most effective expressions of anger to be calm and in control, not screaming at the top of one's lungs. It really is strange that you feel you can dictate how anyone (man OR woman) chooses to express themselves.

So “effective” expressions of anger are completely different than “unhealthy” expressions exactly how? I guess you think I have some kind of sway over Taylor Swift because I am dictating things to her.

You do know mental health counselors and psychologists have studied this a lot. Men and women get angry differently and are perceived differently when angry. Go read a few articles about it. Here is one to start you off:


Recently, singer-songwriter Alanis Morissette said something that resonated with me. When asked about her “angry” songs, she said that anger “gets a bad rap” because of its association with violence. It’s beauty, she noted, is in its power to give you the “fight” to set boundaries. I appreciate her suggestion that there are times when we should embrace our anger and harness it for empowerment, and that there's a difference between anger expressed as aggression and violence, and anger that's not.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/presence-mind/201912/shes-crazy

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did you ever notice she can’t feel anger in her songs? It is always dressed in either sarcasm, seeking vengeance or delivered in a monotone.
But she doesn’t really allow herself to feel it in her music.

Blank space- she is angry but uses “satire”. Look what you made me do: monotone.
The song about killing someone’s wife: monotone.

Even in mad woman, she covers up angry lyrics with peaceful piano. This is the biggest level of misogyny out there (that women shouldn’t express anger) and she does little to break the barrier.
DO you think she plays it safe when it comes to anger? I think she never really owns anger with her voice and feelings, but she talks about it in a removed way.

Have you listened to The Smallest Man Who Ever Lived?

I just tried. The first 40 seconds are the same 3 notes, with a tinkly piano. It’s mean, but not angry. The music behind her is tinkly and her voice is far too smooth to denote anger even though the words may come from anger, it doesn’t show in her voice or the music. Later on the piano gets a little more strident, but then she is singing about not being able to say anything and just “dying inside.”

Own that anger, Taylor, say it to the person you are mad at, don’t make a tinkly song about it half denying your feelings. (By that, I mean the musical half).

This is where the idea that she is always a victim comes from. Her lyrics don’t match the tone of the songs and her vocal style, she claims anger, but it never shows in the music or her voice, and then her lyrics come across as mean.

OTOH, if she were up there getting righteously angry, she wouldn’t be the good girl role model for young girls. A true Catch 22 this misogyny stuff.

Interesting. I can feel the anger and hurt, so different strokes. Fans may also have a different experience because they’re familiar with her live shows. Songs like “The Smallest Man…” and “Illicit Affairs” are sung differently live. There’s a reason they call her show/latest album “Female Rage: The Musical.”

I'm a casual listener through my kids, but I definitely hear anger in some of her songs. Whose right is it to tell someone else how to demonstrate anger whether loud and brash or more subdued, EITHER way?

Oh jeez- of course she has the “right” to express her anger how she wants to. Duh- I just never hear the passion of say Adele’s hurt or Alanis’ anger in her voice. To ME, it isn’t there. She just doesn’t let herself get into her songs. And yes, I am only me, but this thread is asking if I (and you) like Taylor Swift. And I am explaining that she doens’t appeal to me and trying to figure out why. When I listen to her, I want to tell her to actually SING about that, not just whisper it away. I hear hurt, meanness and woe, not anger. Like she lashes out, but needs to do it sweetly rather than angrily. Woven into that is the damper of misogyny.

Of course she gets to express herself how she (or really how her fans want her to if you listen to her describe her plight in Ms. Americana) wants to. That is the last thing i would want to say to another person, that you should express something ONLY a certain way. But as a listener, I also can say that I don’t hear very much anger or passion in her songs. To me, she sounds like she is holding back and so she appeals less to me than other artists.

DP. Of course you can interpret her work any way you choose, but since you brought up "misogyny" - it's kind of ironic that you feel she should emote in a certain way, or else she couldn't possibly actually be angry. That's like the guy who tells a woman to "smile!" except you're telling her to... scream, shout, wail, cry? Who knows. She's expressing her anger the way *she* expresses it.

Again, not what I am saying. I’m not telling her HOW to feel. I’m definitely not talking to her except in my head and I have full confidence that anything I type here has zero effect on her. Either way, I don’t think pointing out unhealthy expression of anger is a misogynistic.

"Unhealthy expression of anger"? What? On the contrary, I find the most effective expressions of anger to be calm and in control, not screaming at the top of one's lungs. It really is strange that you feel you can dictate how anyone (man OR woman) chooses to express themselves.

So “effective” expressions of anger are completely different than “unhealthy” expressions exactly how? I guess you think I have some kind of sway over Taylor Swift because I am dictating things to her.

You do know mental health counselors and psychologists have studied this a lot. Men and women get angry differently and are perceived differently when angry. Go read a few articles about it. Here is one to start you off:


Recently, singer-songwriter Alanis Morissette said something that resonated with me. When asked about her “angry” songs, she said that anger “gets a bad rap” because of its association with violence. It’s beauty, she noted, is in its power to give you the “fight” to set boundaries. I appreciate her suggestion that there are times when we should embrace our anger and harness it for empowerment, and that there's a difference between anger expressed as aggression and violence, and anger that's not.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/presence-mind/201912/shes-crazy

And?

[Anonymous]

Personality - fine
Musically - ridiculously overrated